some serious flaws in the writing of this game

[bunies]

I like the expansion of the story by adding new things in between

the whole avlanche being a much bigger group ( and the gang bing just some small extremist cell) makes absolutely no sense, it was much better design with just the small group honestly

the whole defying fates thing is an interstign concept, but it is obvious its just an improvised method to not kill aerith

Zack surviving ( by defying fate or some bs ) is a whole new level of bad writing because how exactly does cloud get the buster sword if zack did not die ? there be some major woopsies in writing here

the new thing of wutai working with avalanch once again makes no sense

yuffie working with avalanch and knowing who the other memebers in the group are before robbing them is even more bad writing.


i will admit i very much liked the expansions on heidegger and scarlet and the fact they remained preatty much who they were but became more fleshed out

also i noticed that apperently ff7 has no fall damage, which is why cloud survives a 300 meter fall and yuffie constantly comes crashing down without so much as a scratch

[Zap]

See, the mistake you're clearly making is that you're trying to use logic in an attempt to analyze the "plot" of "remake," friend. Logic doesn't work when analyzing this stuff. Big giant Avalanche organization with helicopters comin' in hot on the Nomura/Kitase retcon express? Sure, no problem. Whatever makes the game look and seem cooler. Just go along with it so you can enjoy the empty and fan-pandering Zack and Aeris fan fiction. This game is essentially SE's way of providing that to everyone who wanted it in the first place or has been "enticed" into wanting it now. I would also consider the distinct possibility that you are debating against algorithm-augmented replying. Who knows these days what you are dealing with in these settings. Better to just state your thoughts and then take a hint when you're getting line-by-line gaslit to oblivion.

[Sm0k3f47h3r]

everything after the original FF VII is fan fiction serving the sole purpose to cash in on it's popularity as much as possible. questioning the abysmal writing of any spin off/demake will make you sad, so stop worrying or analyzing for that matter and at least enjoy the gameplay.

square enix doesn't give a f1uck, brain dead "fans" will defend everything "given" to them anyway so relax and think about something else =)

[Mako]

Publicado originalmente por bunies:

wow, you are a special kind of %%%%% arent you

"An accretion of Whispers, the so-called arbiters of fate. The creatures appear when someone tries to alter destiny's course. They are connected to all the threads of time and space that shape the planet's fate"

"An entity from a future timeline that has manifested in the present day. It fights with a sword to protect the future that gave shape to it"

they are literally entities that are attempting to keep someone from altering events that are deemed as what will happen by destiny, mainly events in this case that lead to aerith dying. They have litteraly nothing to do with time travel, there is no time travel, there are no alternate time lines. Every time someone so much as atempts to do something that would cause a deviation from the right path they appear to intereven. Such as when they showed up around aerith to make sure she met cloud, such as to make sure cloud went up reactor 5, notice ow they just ♥♥♥♥♥♥ right off as soon as jessie got her ankle injured ? also how they prevent aerith from falling in the church. They litteraly just make adjustments to make sure things happen as they should, in effect they are trying to prevent free will.

You are grasping at straws that are grasping staws at this point, really weather is different therefore different timeline ? what type of insane illogical reasoning is that ? it is like claiming global warming because it is hot durring the summer.

LOL, nice insult, Im so offended by some rando who cant understand this child's bed story plot.

"They are connected to all the threads of time and space" - that one here directly mentions existence of multiple timelines and dimensions. Case closed.

"An entity from a future timeline that has manifested in the present day" - time travel. It even uses the world "timeline" for those who missed hints first 100 times.

The only one grasping at straws in face of undeniable facts is you (at least at this exact moment, Ness is also very proficient at this particular exercise).

"Every time someone so much as atempts to do something that would cause a deviation" - clearly not the case. They're only alter Cloud's journey to make it close enough to original 1997 timeline. They absolutely arent interested in anything else. Makes sense since they are clearly being manipulated by Sephiroth (there are multiple scenes that give it away but all you really have to do is rewatch final phases in final boss fight).

"eally weather is different therefore different timeline ? what type of insane illogical reasoning is that ?" - Oh, I get it. You see familar words but dont understrand the meaning. Thats not what I've said. I didnt say there is a different climate in different timelines. Ending scenes reel shows different scenes that are supposedly happening at the same time in pretty close proximity. Yet weather is drastically different in some of them - in scenes where everyone is shown to be alive.

"there are no alternate time lines" - yea, sure. feel free to explain 1st 30 seconds of this trailer then
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkD8BCCYsS0
I'd love to see you try.

Publicado originalmente por bunies:

I mean in the original this was much worse but still this is bad. as a side not 300 meters is fairly devastating fall even if the few people who have survived falls like that by sheer luck i might mention, they have sustained extreme injurrry, fully body cast would be the minimum.

I though you are an expert on whispers. Yet you failed to notice its whispers who saved Cloud in Remake. Strange, very strange

Publicado originalmente por bunies:

after thinking on it some more, the big avalanch is even dumber then i first realised. With there being more avalnch then the plate drop makes even less sense. It was always dumb writing, but was excused by shinra is stupid enough to use a flamethrower because they saw ants in the living room. But with avlanch being bigger and most of it not in sector 7 its now even dumber to drop the plate, i mean original it at least was excused by it would get rid of avalanch, but now even that inst true, it is now even dumber.

It was a stupid mustache villain writing in original 1997 game.
In Remake killing Avalanche is not the reason why Shinra does it. They openly say why they drop the plate and blow up their own reactors - to sell a war against Wutai to general public. Its also clear that president worries specifically about number of casualties being low as a result of organized evacutation, and much less about Avalanche survival. This whole thing echoes RL 9/11 conspiracy theories.

At this point Im starting to think you've been skipping 90% of cutscenes.

[Zap]

It was a stupid mustache villain writing in original 1997 game.

This is pretty much all you need to read to see the disagreement here. It seems reasonable that anyone who doggedly defends this "remake," its "whisper" meta-narrative, and its completely intentional F.U. to the fans of the original's story and gameplay either:

1) actively hates or resents the overshadowing success of the original game as much as Nomura and Kitase clearly hate the original game, enjoying seeing it warped, retconned, and mangled via this trilogy
2) knows next to nothing about FF7 aside from Cloud being "that guy from Smash Bros" and is just enjoying the combat and visuals and waifus
3) wants all the Aeris/Tifa/Zack fan fiction visual eye candy they can get and will pay over and over again for it
4) is incentivized in some manner to defend the game

Or some combo of the above.

Why do Nomura and Kitase seem to hate the original story so much when they were both instrumental in creating it all those years ago? Maybe because, fast forward two decades, and everything they've put out in the bloated "FF7 compilation" of spin-offs and fan-fiction has been largely rejected or ignored compared to the success of the original. Why is that the case? In part because the original was a complete narrative. These spin-offs are not only superfluous, but they actively change the spirit of the original from a subtle, text-based, theatrical narrative into an over-the-top otaku experience. I am sure at this point Nomura and Kitase are sick of FF7. SE tasking them with making even more bloated FF7 stuff with these same tired characters--I highly doubt either of them was excited for that assignment. I would assume they both want to make new stories, not milk old ones with spin-offs that will never be as good as the original was under the supervision of Sakaguchi.

So I say let the fans of the fan fiction and whoever else wants to defend it have at it. The entire business model of this bloated "FF7 universe," from this padded Midgar setting up expensive sequels, to the gacha "Ever Crisis" mobile game designed to try to hook you with loot box microtransactions--it all speaks for itself.

[Mako]

Lots of hollow words about absolutely nothing that has anything to do with original quote. How typical. Your whole essay is irrelevant and doesnt address why dropping a plate and killing 1/7 (sector 6 has almost no population of its own, its plate is incomplete in both games) of your city population with proportional damage to economy for a chance to kill 6 people isnt a mustache twirling villain move. Go ahead, post another long reply that doesnt address this. You are very good at dodging (no).

Publicado originalmente por Ness:

1) actively hates or resents the overshadowing success of the original game as much as Nomura and Kitase clearly hate the original game, enjoying seeing it warped, retconned, and mangled via this trilogy
2) knows next to nothing about FF7 aside from Cloud being "that guy from Smash Bros" and is just enjoying the combat and visuals and waifus
3) wants all the Aeris/Tifa/Zack fan fiction visual eye candy they can get and will pay over and over again for it
4) is incentivized in some manner to defend the game

1) I dont. But I do enjoy having a good laugh at an expense of rose-tinted shades wearing Sakaguichi fans who will do anything to find tinies flaws in this game but will call pointing the same exact flaws in OG "drilling down on a detail to the detriment". Nice going, hipocrite.
2) LMAO. Its been demonstrated multiple times you dont even remember some details about OG and filled the gaps with wild imagination.
3) Not interested
4) Considering many other hipocritical occusations I wouldnt be surprised if thats in fact a case for you. Otherwise what reasons do you have to create and pile up so much misery for yourself. Letting a game you hate live rent-free in your head for a year (possibly much longer) instead of moving on and finding something else you can enjoy. There must be some incentive, or you just hate yourself more than you hate this game. So which one it is?

[Zap]

Unfortunate insults. Square Enix can still turn things around and be the great company they were, if they can get their leadership in order and focus on making new stories that matter to people instead of more spin-offs of the old ones from 20 years ago. But with this sort of attitude among those who supposedly support them, I don't see that likely happening.

There is plenty of good writing in this game--most notably in the early dialogue between some of the characters. For the first 15 chapters there were some well-written exchanges. However, the writing of Ch. 16-18 is so contrived and the "whisper" meta-narrative shoe-horned in is so alien and poorly thought-out, it really boggles the mind to see anyone defend it. Just watching/playing what they did with Hojo, his lab, and with the entire ridiculous highway scene "ending," with Barett on top of the Shinra building--it's jarring compared to the cohesiveness of the original world, that cohesiveness and charm being what made FF7 what it was.

Aside from a few dogmatic defenders of the poorly thought-out retcons and final few chapters of "remake," we have more often seen people on here and elsewhere be reasonable, saying they agree that the writing of the last couple chapters was rushed, nonsensical, and poorly executed. Add to that the pointless retcons like with Wutai that contradict the world of the original purely so you can have a Yuffie DLC, and you have some very questionable decisions made in the story and world department.

Again, the point is that at the end of the day, if you bought this game actually wanting an FF7 remake that retold the plot, any dramatic changes to the plot and world will be unwelcome. For those changes to be so bad, sloppily thought out, and sloppily executed makes it even worse for those consumers. Those people will almost certainly not be buying "Rebirth." It seems like SE is completely fine with losing those customers and is probably just happy they bought "Remake" in the first place and "gave it a try." "Rebirth" will be supported by people who either don't care about a faithful retelling of the plot, don't care if the new plot makes sense and isn't some "Marvel Multi-verse," or else really just want some combat and familiar characters. And they can have it.

[Mako]

Publicado originalmente por Ness:

Unfortunate insults

Very funny considering >50% of all insults on this forum comes from you.
Your previous post is very toxic, even after all edits. And then when you get a reply in similar tone you try to play a victim card. That lack of self-awareness.

Also nice dodge again (no).

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Publicado originalmente por bunies:

the whole avlanche being a much bigger group ( and the gang bing just some small extremist cell) makes absolutely no sense, it was much better design with just the small group honestly

I think the creators might be envisioning a big spectacular battle of Midgar sequence in part 3 and needed to justify why there would be a small army fighting against Shinra in the streets. Perhaps after the plate drop and the evacuation, there will be lots of people joining up with the larger Avalanche army. Maybe Wutai will assist too.

[bunies]

Publicado originalmente por Val the Moofia Boss:

Publicado originalmente por bunies:

the whole avlanche being a much bigger group ( and the gang bing just some small extremist cell) makes absolutely no sense, it was much better design with just the small group honestly

I think the creators might be envisioning a big spectacular battle of Midgar sequence in part 3 and needed to justify why there would be a small army fighting against Shinra in the streets. Perhaps after the plate drop and the evacuation, there will be lots of people joining up with the larger Avalanche army. Maybe Wutai will assist too.

i mean isn't the larger avalanch army just wutai, which also seems like weird retcon seeing as in the original they wutai just kind of went full pacifist japan and yuffi is the weirdo steering up trouble rest of them want no part in

[Mako]

No, Avalanche isnt Wutai. Avalanche is an offshoot of planetologists from Cosmo Canyon.

[bunies]

Publicado originalmente por Mako:

No, Avalanche isnt Wutai. Avalanche is an offshoot of planetologists from Cosmo Canyon.

i mean isn't it basicaly pointed out that the "avalanch" guys who come to save you at the end of the shinra break in to steal stuff is basicaly wutai

[Mako]

No, its pointed out that they have some kind of deal with Wutai.
Both OG and Rebirth make it clear that Avalanche was founded in Cosmo Canyon. The difference is that we dont see bigger A group in OG which creates a bit of a gap in their story. Either they were wiped out at some point or they are somewhere off-screen.

[Pack 4 Potatoes]

I'll add just that the Avalanche group being bigger was already established in Before Crisis. The FF7 lore has expanded a lot and the remake is just a part of it.