Why Shinra don't deploy those 1st class "Soldiers" against Cloud?

[Diamond Girls]

All I can see are 3rd class and Reno as 2nd class.

I feel like tbh, Shinra forces are pushover or Cloud's party is just too strong.

[Pronnu]

My understanding of it was that Hojo was pulling strings behind the scenes because he knew Cloud was running around messing ♥♥♥♥ up and he wanted another Sephiroth to play with.
remember: Cloud, pre-mako infusion, managed to kill Sephiroth even after being stabbed by the Masamune. A lowly Shinra grunt killed the most powerful supersoldier Hojo managed to create.

[WhateverWorks]

Sure, after Sephiroth had already had an all out fight to the death with a Soldier 1st that he and his best friend trained. Cloud was of scientific interest simply for being the guy that was there, anyone else would have been as well. After all Hojo was interested in cross species genetics and all sorts of other inhumane experimentation, anything to experiment on is good enough. Cloud has no super soldier capabilities of any sort whatsoever prior to the J cell experiments and being in a mako tank for years.

Zack was already a certified bada** by the time he goes to Nibelheim, he's first class, he's already fought and killed Sephiroths childhood friends (as far as either of them know at the time). He is the reason Sephiroth ended up in the lifestream, Cloud would have died otherwise.

In fact in Crisis Core he's less useful at times than any modern day Infantryman from any major nation in the world would be.

[WhateverWorks]

Also there are Soldier 3rds, 2nds, and 1sts in the original game. You fight them in random battles and they don't have individual names. The 3rds are the ones you steal Hardedge from in the Shinra Tower. As for canonically why they don't send an army of 1sts, it's because of funding. Literally. Throughout the game there is a clear push towards automated security and war assets, rather than using human personnel. There a corporation so this makes sense, it cuts down on costs and guarantees obedience if you only "employ" machines. We're seeing the same thing more and more in the real world, but that's another topic.

Anyways, funding was being diverted away from Soldier and the Turks to go towards Hojo's research and the weapon department (why they're constantly throwing their latest and greatest junk toys at you). Bad management is the reason Shinra fails at stopping Cloud and friends. It's the reason any corporation fails at their goals.

[mdart]

wow alot of false info in this thread. firstly only a few soldiers have jenova cells in them. they are angel genesis sepherioth and zack. while remake does hint that there are more with hojo saying that there are still g type soldiers its never stated if these are genesis clones or more soldiers tested by hollander. all other soldiers as stated in remake and og are just mako infused people. in the og you face all three classes of soldier. first time in shinra hq when you face 3rd class then in jonun for 2nd class and final first class soldier in midgar for the sister ray. all the soldiers with jenova cells in them had them placed in different ways. hollander placed jenova cells in gillian hence project g then placed her cells in a young if not baby genesis. angel and seperoth were somewhat similar ways with angel be born form gillian after the cells were placed in her and sephiroth having the cells inserted into him while still at the fetus stage. note sepiroth is project s from hojo and is hojo and Lucrecia son (he is given a picture of Lucrecia and told her name is jenova) zack and cloud had sephiroth cells placed in them by hojo and experimented on for 5 years after the niblhiem event. turks are not soldier they are just extremely well trained branch of shinra (think like how navy and army both are military but separate branches of military) vincent was a turk till the events of project s were he confronted hojo and was shot and almost killed by hojo. Lucrecia had worked with Vincent dad learning about choas so she used what she knew and sacrificed herself to have chaos save vincent. but for soldier with jenova cells it went sephiroth presumed dead till the events of ff7. genesis presumed killed by zack (doc secert ending kinda points to him still being alive.) angel never showed sighs degradation and his abiltys of clones were better then genesis and was killed by zack. and finaly zack was killed by shinra third military branch Public Security Forces. note cloud was part of this branch of the shinra military but its best to look shinra military as this the public security is the basic police force. soldier is there elite fighting force or army and turks was more of special investigation team of the police.

[Diamond Girls]

Messaggio originale di Gabby:

Messaggio originale di Diamond Girls:

All I can see are 3rd class and Reno as 2nd class.

I feel like tbh, Shinra forces are pushover or Cloud's party is just too strong.

Going to take the fact that you think Turks are SOLDIERS as a sign there's some lost lore here. They in fact DO deploy a soldier against him in Remake and he kinda steals the show for two whole chapters. The reason you don't see many 2nd or above is because there were only a few such soldiers around and most of them are dead or presumed dead.

Been a while since I played the game but I recall Reno said something like "Second..." during his first fight with Cloud so I thought he is a 2nd class Soldier. And I thought Turks can be a Soldier.

[Reimei Shinsetsu]

Messaggio originale di GuRu Asaki:

Sephiroth & Zack, were the 1st Class Soldiers, I think... Cloud was a Recruit, or something. Low Class?

Cloud didn't really gain 1st Class Rank, till he picked up the Buster Sword for the 1st time. Am I wrong? oO

I think there were a few others in 1st Class, who aren't mentioned in this Game, but I might be wrong...

Cloud started in security and moved to SOLDIER as a 1st class during the Mako infusion experiment with Jenova cells but he never did work as 1st class as Zack nabbed him before he could be brainwashed by Shinra and Hojo which was why during Cloud's rescue and Zack's eventual death Cloud was never able to help him (as cloud was unconscious and Hojo stopped by Zack he would actually never know this)

If you play Crisis Core it explains it all pretty well

The reason they don't send 1st Class soldiers is because their are none left.

Angeal is dead, Genesis is Awol, Sephiroth is more nuts than Genesis (mostly thanks to Genesis really) and Zack knows the truth about Shinra's corruption and by this point into anyway is dead

Reno is a Turk not SOLDIER

[Reimei Shinsetsu]

Messaggio originale di Diamond Girls:

Messaggio originale di Gabby:

Going to take the fact that you think Turks are SOLDIERS as a sign there's some lost lore here. They in fact DO deploy a soldier against him in Remake and he kinda steals the show for two whole chapters. The reason you don't see many 2nd or above is because there were only a few such soldiers around and most of them are dead or presumed dead.

Been a while since I played the game but I recall Reno said something like "Second..." during his first fight with Cloud so I thought he is a 2nd class Soldier. And I thought Turks can be a Soldier.

nah turks another department and paid more than SOLDIER too :P

[Reimei Shinsetsu]

Messaggio originale di spectre199:

Why is everyone saying that Cloud is a 1st class soldier? He never made it and I believe he quits? Before even going through the soldier program.

I say that because I believe he mentions he never made it through. Others even say that he didn't go through the soldier program.

Technically he was going to be, due to him being infused with S cells but Zack nabs him just after the operation so he never gets the chance to be

[Reimei Shinsetsu]

Messaggio originale di V3RD1CT:

Messaggio originale di Risky Bitness:

Suspension of disbelief. This sort of story requires droves of disposable goons to be thrown at the hero.
The in-universe reason though I'm pretty sure there were no more SOLDIER 1st Class at this point. I don't think they had any more Mako infused SOLDIERs and I think all first class were Mako infused. They all went crazy and are waiting for the Reunion.

So yeah I think the in universe reason is that there aren't any left.

It's true
Sephiroth was the last.
Vincent was a sleeper agent?
Red X was unfinished in a lab. (Had free will.)
Cloud idk if Shinra even knew was mako infused, but is the last of those options.
Genova was the creator of this in part, but has its own monstrous intent. (Would kill everything not just Avalanche.)

Agree there are no super soldiers.

Shinra never knew about Cloud being mako infused or the G and S Jenova cells in him, that was purely done by Hojo who was a complete nut job

[GuRu Asaki]

Messaggio originale di Diamond Girls:

All I can see are 3rd class and Reno as 2nd class.

I feel like tbh, Shinra forces are pushover or Cloud's party is just too strong.

("Spoilers For Original Game: Don't Read If You Plan To Play It??")


You Know The Entirety Of The Joke About The Original Game??

Cloud Was Actually A Low Class, Who Never Made S Class...

Yes, Cloud Had A Machine Gun, & Looked Just Like A Shinra Soldier...

It wasn't until pretty much Zack had been completely injured
by a rebelious team mate, that Cloud even remotely had the
S Class Ranked to his name at all...

And you know what? Cloud failed to prove his
ability to hold up that end of the bargin...

Yet, Somehow Cloud Manages To Overcome The Entire Shinra HQ,
Saves Red 13, Destroys Multi-Massive Robotic Tyrants, & Defeates
This Reblious Psychopath, Barely With Help Of Friends... o_@

Then Returns Stigmaed, Ill, & regret of a girlfriend,
of which his wife never gets over, just to Beat 'Em
Another Go Without Even Trying By Himself, o_@


The 2nd Joke Of The Whole Thing Is That Cloud Practically
Died Like Way Back Before Final Fantasy VII Was Released,
He Practically Died Back When Cloud Was Still A Soldier
Teamed Up With Sephiroth As War Buddies, He Died When
He Quit The Military??

I Mean Not Literally Died, I Mean His Soul Died...

It's Like He Never Got Over His Past, Never Found Closure,
& He Just Died Inside, Even With A Full Family, He Didn't Care?






The Joke Of The ReMake Of The Game??

To Show How Much Of The Game Has Actually Changed,
& How Much Of The Game & Story Was Ruined??

The Opening Of Final Fantasy VII ReMake, Cloud Addresses
His Own Teamates As If He Doesn't Care About Them,
& Completely Tells Them They Should Die...

He Then Follows Up With This Later Gloating About
His Happy Times With His Soo Called Buddies He
Wish Were Dead?? o_@

The 2nd Joke Of The ReMake Of The Game??

Is Seeing Videos Of Sephiroth Partying With Clouds Gang
In Parts Of The Story?? Especially When The Story Had
Already Claimed That Sephiroth Was A Rebelious Type
Claiming To Be A Danger To Clouds Party, o_@

The 3rd Joke Of The ReMake Of The Game??

No Longer Is Snowboarding, Riding A Bike, & Such A Things??
Naaaa, We Now Got Segway Jousting Battles... (NO JOUSTING) How Dare They? o_@




The Point Here Is This??

The ReMake Got None Of The Material Right,
The Story Is A Mess, The Exploration Is Censored,
The Characters Have Screwed Up Personalities,
& It's Been Suggested That A Protest Is To Get
Tifa & Aerith Gay...

I didn't even know Aerith was in the
2nd Game at all...

The Naming Of Rebirth?? I Don't
Really Get The Name Change, I'm
Guessing It's Based On ReUnion?


The Whole ReMake Thing, Just Sounds Like The Developers
Are Jabbing Knives Into Their Original FAN Customer's Gut,
& Deliberately Bleeding The FAN Customers Out,
Over, & Over, & Over, & Over Again As The Developers
Continue To Hate On Their Customers Deliberately... ~_~



& People Don't Think That Square Enix Had
A Gun Held To Their Head Over Doing This??


Maybe They Did, Maybe They Didn't??


It Doesn't Matter...


Final Fantasy VII: ReMake Is as Confusing As The Story
Surrounding Why Tifa Should Be Gay...

This ReMake Franchise Sucks...

& The Whole 1st Class & 2nd / 3rd Class Issue You All Have??

Are Just As Confusing As The Main Story Of The Game,
It's Also Just As Confusing As To Why We Have Segway
Jousting Battles Without Jousting Involved??


The Whole Game Don't Make Any Sense...


The Battles In Final Fantasy VII ReMake & Visiting The Stores,
Are The Only Thing This ReMake Franchise Has Going For It...

If Your Not Interested In That??

Well??

Why Are You Playing The Games? o_@


Each Game Gets Worst Then The Previous, Too...



I Own Final Fantasy VII: ReMake Part 1 For PS4,
& It's Alright, But I Won't Buy The Others On Computer, Nor PS4...

Should Of Released The Franchise On PlayStation 3,
When They Had The Chance, Oh, Well :(

[Ter-Oggos]

Messaggio originale di God-of-Rpgz:

Messaggio originale di Tr0w:

At one point in time he was 3rd class, after being experimented on (which happens prior to the start of the game) he has the abilities of a Soldier 1st Class.

cloud has the abilities of a G clone and a S clone considering he was the only one to be infected by G genes and then experimented on by hojo using S genes then to top it off he was over exposed to the lifestream and mako, guys a walking mako reactor on steriods.

when the npc doctor stated he didn't know how he was still alive, he wasn't joking lol i like to just assume something in cloud's genetics themselves allow him to fuse genetic information from other lifeforms but really the S genes stabilised his G genes from degradation as was mentioned many times in crisis core.

Nice necro man.

Check the dates before you post

[WhateverWorks]

Right? Unhinged reply entirely with a lot of nonsensical bad info. And no ones going to bother reading all of it because of the weird af caps pattern.

Also it's seriously ridiculous how many people think Cloud was ever Soldier 1st. He was never even Soldier at all. This is a HUGE part of the plot in the original, and is fully fleshed out in Crisis Core. No, he wasn't Soldier 1st after the Hojo experiments. Being Soldier isn't just a term for "Anyone with Mako infusion". It's a specific specialist military branch.

Cloud may have been put through Mako infusion and given J cells, but that didn't make him Soldier. He only ends up with the uniform because that is the available clothing that Zack finds. He only ends up believing he was Soldier, as a sort of mental self preservation tactic from the trauma of the experiments and Zacks death. Again, this is all explained clearly in the original game. It's not ambiguous about it at all. Cloud is effectively as strong as Zack was after the experiments, and Zack had already fought Sephiroth toe to toe without the J Cells. It actually made sense that Cloud could fight him, if you understood the full order of events in Crisis Core.

It also makes sense that Shinra diverted funds away from Soldier and the Turks, if you know the events of Crisis Core. Shinra loses a disgusting amount of money and trained security because of Zack going rouge and the Turks not taking him in.

[WhateverWorks]

Oh no's non-moderator forum police are trying to moderate the forums. IDK, I've had threads get necro'd and was thankful for the nostalgia if not the new info/opinions.

[Diamond Girls]

Messaggio originale di God-of-Rpgz:

Messaggio originale di Ter-Oggos:

Nice necro man.

Check the dates before you post

why? the OP is an active user and it was better than listening to Tifa arguments again it was done on purpose to give something game related and normal to talk about.

Necroing threads is not against Steam TOS so you're good to go.

[Ter-Oggos]

Messaggio originale di Diamond Girls:

Messaggio originale di God-of-Rpgz:

why? the OP is an active user and it was better than listening to Tifa arguments again it was done on purpose to give something game related and normal to talk about.

Necroing threads is not against Steam TOS so you're good to go.

Actually, yes it is