What's wrong with Square?

[IvaneroWorld]

This game is 3 years old and it costs the ridiculous amount of 80€

A game like FFXII is 16 years old and it costs 50€

What's wrong with this company? They really want us to NOT buy their games or what? Because this feels like they're insulting us as customers.

[Zap]

Originally posted by Tr0w:

They're still doing some things really well, Tactics Ogre Reborn, Front Mission 1st, Star Ocean Second R, and Octopath Traveller 2.

Yeah those are all A or AA titles with small budgets and small revenue pools. Those are not their main focus. And Octopath story (1st one at least) is apparently pretty bad with the characters not even connecting to one another or interacting--just a bunch of isolated stories like that boring FFIV After Years spin off.

But I agree SE still does some great things--like Trials of Mana was awesome, and DQ11 was good though story a little boring and lost pacing at times. FF12 and FF10 remasters were well done.

SE hasn't had good writing in a long time. they just seem to, at the behest of their board, want to milk existing properties for the bottom line using brand recognition. Hopefully that starts to change with the new leadership in place. We will see if they actually start listening. They haven't listened to fans in a long time. I think dollar signs are something they will actually listen to. Putting their faith in this trio of aged and ostensibly complacent Final Fantasy devs to save the company is another miscalculation, in my opinion. So was putting the FF14 guy in charge of FF16. Just keep him in the MMO space. They made FF16 into a single player MMO with a plot and characters directly ripped from Game of Thrones. Like who actually wants that? Just watch a movie at that point. The game was like 70% cutscenes and a bunch of QTE boss fights apparently. Ridiculous.

[Tr0w]

@Xengre Yeah it's strange we got 2 but no port of 1

[Xengre]

Originally posted by Barfolomew's Galactic Rescue:

Originally posted by Tr0w:

They're still doing some things really well, Tactics Ogre Reborn, Front Mission 1st, Star Ocean Second R, and Octopath Traveller 2.

Yeah those are all A or AA titles with small budgets and small revenue pools. Those are not their main focus. And Octopath story (1st one at least) is apparently pretty bad with the characters not even connecting to one another or interacting--just a bunch of isolated stories like that boring FFIV After Years spin off.

For the low development cost...

Octopath Traveler 1 sold 3m
Octopath Traveler 2 sold 1m (came out this year)
NieR: Automata sold 7.5m

These games actually made bank despite their much lower development costs. I can't speak of the other examples as they don't have figures, yet, due to being so new but just these three should make it clear much more budget friendly titles are much lower risk with much greater efficiency of return. In fact, this is one of Square's announced goals specifically because major AAA are simply getting too expensive to produce for their weaker returns.

Final Fantasy VII Remake is an odd situation because each extra episode and a lack of steep discount bolsters overall profits of prior episode entries and even the original game, Crisis Core Reunion, and other connected content.

Apparently the writing in the first Octopath Traveler, indeed, wasn't the best but not horrible however many of their other games like Nier, Octopath Traveler 2, and more have had better writing.

Final Fantasy 16 sold fairly well and this was already proven, along with Square Enix' absurd expectations. The game will continue to sell as it is released on PC and avoids some of the Playstation's major issues, hardware limitations and poor implementation of FSR 1 (instead of newer), etc. The PS5 also has a weaker install base, currently, due to being so new still. I think you're griefing it without being fair about the actual results, even if it wasn't some monster success. If we used the same metrics you gauge FF7R and FF16 by then 99%+ of the games ever released are financial failures... Think about that. The story, btw, is actually one of the most highly praised parts of FF16 and quite well received. Its story is not the issue people are complaining about with the game...

Considering Naoki Yoshida's success with FF14 rendering it so successful it has helped save Square Enix in the face of multiple other failures from plummeting by offsetting their losses can you blame them for trying to see if he can extend his success to FF16? That said, he is only a producer for 16 in the end and cannot be simply blamed for the game that came out as he influences but doesn't make all the decisions, design, etc.

It is interesting you point out Trials of Mana with its much lower sales, and DQ11 which technically has weaker sales (but in its own merit is still a strong 6.5m) compared to FF7R, Nier, and will probably fall behind FF16 at some point as well. Despite its lower sales I do like to see them taking on fresher efforts like Trials of Mana, myself.

Interestingly Square Enix actually isn't doing too bad atm...

Square Enix Holdings Annual Gross Profit
(Millions of US $)
2023 $1,302
2022 $1,738
2021 $1,497
2020 $1,162
2019 $1,073
2018 $1,106
2017 $1,050

Sadly, they did so well in 2021 & 2022 that their executives will tunnel vision and ignore overall trend to complain despite still showing an overall upward curve over macro timescale and certainly not a loss. Their own greedy mouths hurt their stock valuation despite not seeing a loss.

[Rekta]

Green Man Gaming is the site I use to buy SE Games just make sure it activates in your region

[Tr0w]

Square must be kicking themselves though that with 16 they took the series so far away from being an RPG or even ARPG that it's closer to DMC or Nier and got obliterated in sales by turn based Baldur's Gate 3.

[Xengre]

Originally posted by Tr0w:

Square must be kicking themselves though that with 16 they took the series so far away from being an RPG or even ARPG that it's closer DMC or Nier and got obliterated in sales by turn based Baldur's Gate 3.

To be fair, I think everyone was kicking themselves expecting Baldur's Gate 3 to be a AA title that released with AA results rather than the banger of the year, beating pretty much everything AAA included. Larian and his team really outdid themselves there.

Kind of reminds me of Microsoft's leaked emails talking about Baldur's Gate Gamepass offering for very cheap and how poorly it would do... Here we are now and ouch. Extra icing on the irony being the Xbox version released late missing the big splash.

[Tr0w]

The problem with Xbox is that nothing makes a big splash there anymore unless it's on gamepass

[Xengre]

Originally posted by Tr0w:

The problem with Xbox is that nothing makes a big splash there anymore unless it's on gamepass

Yeah... I think Microsoft really backed themselves into a corner with Gamepass now seeing what it did to Starfield's sales and after many other devs (and even Phil Spencer admitting) it greatly harmed profits for devs. If they can get it on track it would be an actual miracle at this point.

[Tr0w]

Originally posted by Xengre:

Originally posted by Tr0w:

The problem with Xbox is that nothing makes a big splash there anymore unless it's on gamepass

Yeah... I think Microsoft really backed themselves into a corner with Gamepass now seeing what it did to Starfield's sales and after many other devs (and even Phil Spencer admitting) it greatly harmed profits for devs. If they can get it on track it would be an actual miracle at this point.

Like you say they backed themselves into corner cos they are now the smallest platform and they can't change gamepass without the fanbois going into riot mode as they just expect all the games for the monthly sub.

[Daniel]

Buy on sale for $40. No one pays 80 bucks for this.

Game is on sale pretty frequently so I assume that the ‘normal price’ is just a trap.

[Remo]

Originally posted by Weltall8000:

Originally posted by Remo:

Thank God I read this. I have the original game. This is NOT a remake, it's a scam, plain and simple. You'd be hard-pressed to find another remade that pulled this crap. The FACT they say it contains the Full Game is false advertising.

Someone didn't read the product description.

The product description IS THE PROBLEM. They went well out of their way to muddy the waters by using "remake" and "full game" in the description numerous times. They didn't call this game Final Fantasy VII remake part one. Where's the "The first installment of a NEW three-part series based on the original Final Fantasy VII..." in the description? Nope, none of that honesty and clarity here, just "full game" and "remake".

Find me another triple AAA title that uses "Full game" and "Remake" and doesn't deliver the full game. Don't give me this fanboy garbage that Square Enix has reinvented the term "remake" for the whole video game industry. Don't tell me the same company that used FFX parts 1 & 2 and FFXIII three times, couldn't do that again.

[Krypto]

Originally posted by Remo:

Originally posted by Weltall8000:

Someone didn't read the product description.

The product description IS THE PROBLEM. They went well out of their way to muddy the waters by using "remake" and "full game" in the description numerous times. They didn't call this game Final Fantasy VII remake part one. Where's the "The first installment of a NEW three-part series based on the original Final Fantasy VII..." in the description? Nope, none of that honesty and clarity here, just "full game" and "remake".

Find me another triple AAA title that uses "Full game" and "Remake" and doesn't deliver the full game. Don't give me this fanboy garbage that Square Enix has reinvented the term "remake" for the whole video game industry. Don't tell me the same company that used FFX parts 1 & 2 and FFXIII three times, couldn't do that again.

It's very clear what the game is under the product description on Steam. If you read that and don't understand it, use Google because you clearly need the help.

* This game is a remake of FINAL FANTASY VII, first released in 1997.
The first title in a multi-part series, it is based on the story from the original game, up to the escape from Midgar, adding in new elements.

Sounds to me like you can't read very well. First part is part 1. It also states clearly where the first part ends.

One last thing. The term "remake" means to "make differently" or "make again." This game is exactly that, remade, but differently.

[Krypto]

Originally posted by Tr0w:

The problem with Xbox is that nothing makes a big splash there anymore unless it's on gamepass

XBOX hasn't had any "must haves" since Halo and Gears of War. They don't have anything close to God of War, Ratchet and Clank, Spiderman, Horizon, etc...

I only bought an XBOX 360 because it cost less than a PS3 and played third party titles better for the most part. Bought a PS5 slim for the exclusives, as XBOX has jack squat.

[Pnume]

Originally posted by Tr0w:

Originally posted by Barfolomew's Galactic Rescue:

In short, they have a lot of talent in house, but they have awful leadership. That's why the CEO has recently been replaced. They diverted all their resources into FF7 milking and making a lackluster MMO style mainline Final Fantasy entry (FF16), destroyed their Eidos properties and sold them for pennies in order to fund a defunct and failed NFT and cloud gaming side business. Their leaders were living in a world of delusion.

Vote with your dollars and your consience and with the support of actual Square fans may be able to save this company from itself and from its bad leaders. (true real Square fans who have loved them since the 80s/90s, not the rabid modern fanbase whose first game was FF13 and that attack anyone who criticizes the empty modern games SE makes)

Vote with your dollars and send the message you want to send to them with your vote.

Here's a pretty common message that classic Squaresoft fans are sending out. Go read on reddit, metacritic, gamefaqs, diff websites and you'll see the classic Square fans feel this way in large #s. People on here try to create an echo chamber where the cash grabs are celebrated, and they love to say that these are just "minority opinions" but the fact that Square Enix lost a whopping TWENTY FIVE PERCENT of their capital value shows how they are hemmoraging revenue and costs due to poor artistic and business decision making.
...
Hey Square, give more power to competent directors like Tanaka and get Nomura, Kitase, and Nojime out of your game development leadership and you may be able to bounce back financially from this abysmal year you have had. I hope the new CEO is able to clean house and then the rabid fandom will actually have something to celebrate--actual lasting success from a company that listens to its fans instead of a shrinking fan base and investors who are selling off and realizing the company is being led poorly. People will start reinvesting in Square if they see change happening. But that change needs to happen, not doubling down on the same sort of anti-consumer practices SE has embraced for the past decade.

They're still doing some things really well, Tactics Ogre Reborn, Front Mission 1st, Star Ocean Second R, and Octopath Traveller 2.

Front Mission 1 remake wasn't done by Square.

It was made by an independent developer who bought a license from Square.

[Iron Reaper]

Ff is for high society. If you can’t afford the entry fee then you can’t afford the adrenaline rush