FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE INTERGRADE

FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE INTERGRADE

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yayokay Dec 28, 2023 @ 1:55pm
Imho: The combat is horrible. (EDIT) Now it's good
IT CLICKED FOR ME! THE COMBAT IS FUN!
Last edited by yayokay; Dec 30, 2023 @ 12:08am
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Showing 16-30 of 89 comments
Krypto Dec 29, 2023 @ 7:26am 
Originally posted by DonJonTX:
Originally posted by Krypto (Jaded Grumpus):

True, but some games mask that repetitiveness behind a fun loop.

Sekiro, Jedi Fallen Order, Dark Souls, Doom, Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy 7 Remake.

All of these games are extremely repetitive, but because their combat mechanics are so much fun, we don't really notice the repetition until many hours later, then it's a matter of tolerating that repetition because we like the loop.


How is games like Sekiro repetitive? You literally have to learn the combat for each boss almost each enemy in order to parry right? Final Fantasy R is smash attack u til victory and heal with EVERY boss. On normal.

You can say ohhh did you play in hard mode. That options not givin to start with. So now that the whole terrible story is seen why would we play it on hard mode just for the combat, which looks more tedious than fun. I already had all the spoilers and story revealed.

So the base game difficulty is terrible and thats SE fault for hand holding to begin with

How are games like Sekiro repetitive? The same way every game in existence is repetitive, aka the same actions repeated over and over again. That's what repetition is. The thing is that good systems, well done systems, are able to mask this repetition behind an enjoyable loop so you don't notice it until burnout starts to set in. That's called good design.

On the note of Sekiro. Sekiro is extremely deflection focused. Once you have the timing down, you can beat every boss into submission by just deflecting until their bar fills up. Bar fills up, you press R1, they die. FF7 Remake has more going on than Sekiro. It's a more involved combat system because of how many more things you need to juggle in combat.

In regards to hard mode. It isn't unlocked from the start because it's intended as NG+. If it WAS unlocked from the start as it's currently designed for NG+, you would get slaughtered. I played hard mode on the PS4, and it was a blast. Much more challenging than normal, but in a good way. It gave the combat a fresh feeling because of that.

And another thing. FF7 Remake was never intended to be "hard." If you find it easy, then good on you. I found it easy, but I still enjoyed it immensely.
DonJonTX Dec 29, 2023 @ 8:09am 
Originally posted by Krypto (Jaded Grumpus):
Originally posted by DonJonTX:


How is games like Sekiro repetitive? You literally have to learn the combat for each boss almost each enemy in order to parry right? Final Fantasy R is smash attack u til victory and heal with EVERY boss. On normal.

You can say ohhh did you play in hard mode. That options not givin to start with. So now that the whole terrible story is seen why would we play it on hard mode just for the combat, which looks more tedious than fun. I already had all the spoilers and story revealed.

So the base game difficulty is terrible and thats SE fault for hand holding to begin with

How are games like Sekiro repetitive? The same way every game in existence is repetitive, aka the same actions repeated over and over again. That's what repetition is. The thing is that good systems, well done systems, are able to mask this repetition behind an enjoyable loop so you don't notice it until burnout starts to set in. That's called good design.

On the note of Sekiro. Sekiro is extremely deflection focused. Once you have the timing down, you can beat every boss into submission by just deflecting until their bar fills up. Bar fills up, you press R1, they die. FF7 Remake has more going on than Sekiro. It's a more involved combat system because of how many more things you need to juggle in combat.

In regards to hard mode. It isn't unlocked from the start because it's intended as NG+. If it WAS unlocked from the start as it's currently designed for NG+, you would get slaughtered. I played hard mode on the PS4, and it was a blast. Much more challenging than normal, but in a good way. It gave the combat a fresh feeling because of that.

And another thing. FF7 Remake was never intended to be "hard." If you find it easy, then good on you. I found it easy, but I still enjoyed it immensely.


Yes exactly you do parry and you have to learn WHEN to parry, every boss has different attacks and timings. You cant cheese enemies. Saying FF7R is more in depth than one of the best recognized sword based game is such a joke.

Normal should of been more difficult to start with. Easy is there for a reason.

Take Witcher for example you have easy, normal , hard or death march. You dont get slaughtered in death march, you just have to be more careful on how you fight. Of course if you go into high leveled areas you will be slaughtered which makes sense.

Bottom line is normal mode shouldnt be brain dead, and have you finish to unlock hard mode which looks boring anyways. In fact your even saying its not ment to be difficult which I get that but in order for them to do that mode button mashing which killed the expirence for alot of people
Krypto Dec 29, 2023 @ 8:16am 
Originally posted by DonJonTX:
Originally posted by Krypto (Jaded Grumpus):

How are games like Sekiro repetitive? The same way every game in existence is repetitive, aka the same actions repeated over and over again. That's what repetition is. The thing is that good systems, well done systems, are able to mask this repetition behind an enjoyable loop so you don't notice it until burnout starts to set in. That's called good design.

On the note of Sekiro. Sekiro is extremely deflection focused. Once you have the timing down, you can beat every boss into submission by just deflecting until their bar fills up. Bar fills up, you press R1, they die. FF7 Remake has more going on than Sekiro. It's a more involved combat system because of how many more things you need to juggle in combat.

In regards to hard mode. It isn't unlocked from the start because it's intended as NG+. If it WAS unlocked from the start as it's currently designed for NG+, you would get slaughtered. I played hard mode on the PS4, and it was a blast. Much more challenging than normal, but in a good way. It gave the combat a fresh feeling because of that.

And another thing. FF7 Remake was never intended to be "hard." If you find it easy, then good on you. I found it easy, but I still enjoyed it immensely.


Yes exactly you do parry and you have to learn WHEN to parry, every boss has different attacks and timings. You cant cheese enemies. Saying FF7R is more in depth than one of the best recognized sword based game is such a joke.

Normal should of been more difficult to start with. Easy is there for a reason.

Take Witcher for example you have easy, normal , hard or death march. You dont get slaughtered in death march, you just have to be more careful on how you fight. Of course if you go into high leveled areas you will be slaughtered which makes sense.

Bottom line is normal mode shouldnt be brain dead, and have you finish to unlock hard mode which looks boring anyways. In fact your even saying its not ment to be difficult which I get that but in order for them to do that mode button mashing which killed the expirence for alot of people

You can cheese some of the bosses in Sekiro, or lead a couple off cliff ledges to their deaths. Did that with two bosses. When I say "in depth" I mean there is a lot more to the system. You have ATB to manage, dodging, stagger building, weaknesses to exploit, immunities to deal with (such as Hell House), character switching in combat to deal the most amount of damage during a stagger phase.

Most games are not inherently super difficult to begin with. This goes for FF7 Remake, Doom Eternal, Witcher 3. It just matters how much fun they are.

How long have you been playing video games for anyway? Unlocking harder difficulty modes by clearing the game on the "normal" difficulty has been an aspect of games since the NES days.

I mean, if you're playing FF7 Remake like a button masher and calling it dull, then I'm sorry to say, but you're approaching the combat system all wrong. If I played this game like Devil May Cry, I would get bored super fast.
DonJonTX Dec 29, 2023 @ 8:40am 
Originally posted by Krypto (Jaded Grumpus):
Originally posted by DonJonTX:


Yes exactly you do parry and you have to learn WHEN to parry, every boss has different attacks and timings. You cant cheese enemies. Saying FF7R is more in depth than one of the best recognized sword based game is such a joke.

Normal should of been more difficult to start with. Easy is there for a reason.

Take Witcher for example you have easy, normal , hard or death march. You dont get slaughtered in death march, you just have to be more careful on how you fight. Of course if you go into high leveled areas you will be slaughtered which makes sense.

Bottom line is normal mode shouldnt be brain dead, and have you finish to unlock hard mode which looks boring anyways. In fact your even saying its not ment to be difficult which I get that but in order for them to do that mode button mashing which killed the expirence for alot of people

You can cheese some of the bosses in Sekiro, or lead a couple off cliff ledges to their deaths. Did that with two bosses. When I say "in depth" I mean there is a lot more to the system. You have ATB to manage, dodging, stagger building, weaknesses to exploit, immunities to deal with (such as Hell House), character switching in combat to deal the most amount of damage during a stagger phase.

Most games are not inherently super difficult to begin with. This goes for FF7 Remake, Doom Eternal, Witcher 3. It just matters how much fun they are.

How long have you been playing video games for anyway? Unlocking harder difficulty modes by clearing the game on the "normal" difficulty has been an aspect of games since the NES days.

I mean, if you're playing FF7 Remake like a button masher and calling it dull, then I'm sorry to say, but you're approaching the combat system all wrong. If I played this game like Devil May Cry, I would get bored super fast.


So by in depth atb you mean mash attack, then pull up the menu to heal and repeat? Stagger? You mean after you button mashed and it staggers them and so you keep button mashing until they die?

Also two “bosses” which sound like mini bosses since most actual bosses will lock you in mainly with the fog.

Witcher 3 has a fun system because its not brain dead, especially on death march since you have to use the signs. Thing is youre given the option to play your difficulty. That makes it fun. If I was stuck on very easy, I doubt the game would have such good feedback. Considering the story absolutely destroys FF7R it would still be boring to still to see the game in very easy just to replay it the narrative is already spoiled.

Also yes I have played games since back in the day, thing is hand holding/ easy brain dead games is more of a new trend in gaming for the most part. Old school games used to be more challenging on normal, im sure if some games were super easy theyd have gotten bad feedback too.
Krypto Dec 29, 2023 @ 8:51am 
Originally posted by DonJonTX:
Originally posted by Krypto (Jaded Grumpus):

You can cheese some of the bosses in Sekiro, or lead a couple off cliff ledges to their deaths. Did that with two bosses. When I say "in depth" I mean there is a lot more to the system. You have ATB to manage, dodging, stagger building, weaknesses to exploit, immunities to deal with (such as Hell House), character switching in combat to deal the most amount of damage during a stagger phase.

Most games are not inherently super difficult to begin with. This goes for FF7 Remake, Doom Eternal, Witcher 3. It just matters how much fun they are.

How long have you been playing video games for anyway? Unlocking harder difficulty modes by clearing the game on the "normal" difficulty has been an aspect of games since the NES days.

I mean, if you're playing FF7 Remake like a button masher and calling it dull, then I'm sorry to say, but you're approaching the combat system all wrong. If I played this game like Devil May Cry, I would get bored super fast.


So by in depth atb you mean mash attack, then pull up the menu to heal and repeat? Stagger? You mean after you button mashed and it staggers them and so you keep button mashing until they die?

Also two “bosses” which sound like mini bosses since most actual bosses will lock you in mainly with the fog.

Witcher 3 has a fun system because its not brain dead, especially on death march since you have to use the signs. Thing is youre given the option to play your difficulty. That makes it fun. If I was stuck on very easy, I doubt the game would have such good feedback. Considering the story absolutely destroys FF7R it would still be boring to still to see the game in very easy just to replay it the narrative is already spoiled.

Also yes I have played games since back in the day, thing is hand holding/ easy brain dead games is more of a new trend in gaming for the most part. Old school games used to be more challenging on normal, im sure if some games were super easy theyd have gotten bad feedback too.

I mean "in depth" as what I've already stated, in the comment I previously posted. I don't really want to repeat the same thing again. Go read that paragraph.

I made the Demon of Hatred, the hardest boss in Sekiro, walk off a ledge to his death. This was in a second run of the game so I didn't feel bad for breaking his AI.

Witcher 3's biggest problem with its combat is how it doesn't change from the start. You begin with 5 signs, you never get anymore. Sure, you have variations on those signs, like a stream of fire with Igni or an AOE with Aard, but that's all they are, variations. You also don't get any other weapons than swords, and the combat system isn't designed around swords like Sekiro or Jedi Fallen Order. I highly doubt most people played Witcher 3 on Death March for their first run, just saying. Can we even compare the two stories? I feel like they're completely different in every way, quality of the writing aside.

Old school, retro games, were more difficult by design because they were shorter. Think about it. You could beat Mario Bros in maybe an hour and a half, yet it still cost 70 bucks when I was a kid. They had to find a way to make games last longer, so what did they decide on? Make them extremely difficult to give the illusion they were longer.
DonJonTX Dec 29, 2023 @ 10:01am 
Exactly like I stated if you read as well, thats a mini boss, its not a main story boss to complete the game. Its a side boss that is optional.

Witcher 3 Death March on the first run is what I chose, I always choose the hardest difficulty and then see if its too much I can restart or lower the difficulty early in the game. No need to beat a game fully to see if its for you or not were adults let me have the option to choose.

Yes but it is not just repetitive as youre activity engaged in the harder modes, you have to strike and block and use signs, while healing. Your doing multiple things at once. FF7R in normal mode is just hitting attack and heal thats repetitive your not even dogging, blocking or doing anything. Its literally the easiest game iv ever played. Im forced to play it on easy.

How were these games short? FF7 was longer than this filler trash. Resident Evil was an almost 1:1 remake of the original. In fact if the gamers were more difficult but shorter id rather have that than a super easy game that is longer filled with padding and a boring story. Just pointless mindless activities and sponge bosses to add time at the end of your playthrough
Weltall8000 Dec 29, 2023 @ 10:22am 
I want to like Witcher 3, but every time I try to play through it, I get bored. The gameplay loop is so dull. Even on Deathmarch, it just is not all that interesting. Building toward a build, pretty much just stick in that playstyle with passive improvements over time. I never beat the game, but I think a few dozen hours of the gameplay staying mostly the same, with the sidequests mostly being kinda droll, with the scenery being pretty...but repetitive, I always end up hanging it up.

It seems like it is probably a world steeped in cool lore, but I never got around to diving into the novels. I get the impression that Witcher is better as a book series than a video game/tv show.
Zap Dec 29, 2023 @ 10:35am 
People obviously have different tastes. Witcher 3 sold 50 million plus as of March 2023 (possibly decently higher now) and the series sold 75 million total. A lot of people do not find it boring. But some people do. That's how opinions and tastes work. FF7 "remake" on the other hand has sold about 7 million? That is really low considering how many platforms it's already on and considering how many FF7 fans there are in the world + how many potential FF7 fans there could be if they actually honored the original instead of turning it into this weird hybrid game that tries to be everything to everyone.

It tried to be like Kingdom Hearts, like "Advent Children," like PSX FF7, like an action game, like a strategy game, like a linear Midgar game, like a game with some side content, like a coherent story, like a nonsense spaghetti incoherent time travel "what if" fan fiction where Zack and Aeris come back, like a hack and slash, like an ATB battle, like an FF13 style game, like FF7, etc etc etc.

It is trying so hard to be everything to everyone, and as a result it excelled at none of those goals and ended up being an incoherent gobbledeegook made up of so many discordant parts, mechanics, elements. There are obviously going to be people who like it. But the audience that absolutely LOVES this game and everything about it--it is probably pretty small especially compared to the audience of people who love the "boring" Witcher. Most people who are on board now for "rebirth" I imagine have some significant gripes with the game but take what they like and ignore/are hopeful for what they don't.

FF7 was really one of the rare near "perfect" games that defined an era of gaming. All they had to do was retell the iconic story and update the gameplay and it probably would have sold astronomically.

Imagine if FF7 "remake" was an actual remake like the Resident Evil game. Imagine old generation and new generations enjoying the same thing and being able to share what was great about the original while also the new audience can show the old one how modern gaming has made improvements--sharing and enjoying together. Instead this weird surprise deceptive gobledeegook game basically divided the fandom and betrayed a huge portion of the fan base to the point where they want nothing to do with SE anymore, or at least nothing to do with Final Fantasy anymore.

Ostensibly it ended up this way because the people put in charge of it made it into some self-indulgent incoherent mess to try to force on the world the bad compilation "spin-offs" that only a portion of their fan base actually enjoy.
Last edited by Zap; Dec 29, 2023 @ 10:48am
Observer Dec 29, 2023 @ 10:42am 
Yeah this atb system is a pile of bad combat design. Even daring to put physical attack immunity + barriers to mock you. The hellhouse fight in the arena was an insult to combat system in gaming
Weltall8000 Dec 29, 2023 @ 10:42am 
Witcher 3 was/is popular and I respect that it does some things well. It isn't for me. I don't ♥♥♥♥♥ about the game on its boards for years on end for not doing it for me.

You, again, conflate popularity with quality though. Remake sold over 7 million copies. That's more than several of the OG FFs that you think are better than it.

But more on your rambling lectures of how you think that VII Remake, a game that you didn't understand, is a moral failing. That's more boring than Witcher's combat.
Zap Dec 29, 2023 @ 10:51am 
I understand that viewpoint, and that's fine. Witcher 3 did not blatantly misrepresent itself. IMO, that misrepresentation and the tumultuous relationship Square Enix has had with its fan base for the past decade (controversies over FFX-2, FF12, Deus Ex, Eidos properties, Marvel, Forspoken, FF13, FF15, aggressively predatory gacha games, etc.) is why people vent about this game, probably unproductively the vast majority of the time, we can agree there.

We can acknowledge that Squaresoft used to provide experiences that Square Enix overall does not provide anymore. Times change. And now the bait-and-switch deception strategy of "remake" isn't really going to work anymore. That's a trick that only works once on this level/scale, if you already saw it once.

"Remake's" combat had a lot of potential, but ultimately it tried to do way too many things at the same time and just felt like a bunch of mechanics thrown together without the actual experience of the gamer taken into consideration.

Final Fantasy games once were very consistent and once provided an experience to gamers that they loved. This game is trying to provide you with so many different experiences and did not take the time and care to actually ensure those were good experiences. "Remake" feels like it was made by many different discordant teams and then the final product was put together like a puzzle with pieces that do not fit one another. Many of the individual puzzle pieces are good, but the whole does not cohere. PSX FF7's strength was how well everything cohered and came together into a complete experience and narrative.
Last edited by Zap; Dec 29, 2023 @ 10:59am
Weltall8000 Dec 29, 2023 @ 11:04am 
Originally posted by Barfolomew's Galactic Rescue:
I understand that viewpoint, and that's fine.
Oh, do you?


Originally posted by Barfolomew's Galactic Rescue:
"Remake's" combat had a lot of potential, but ultimately it tried to do way too many things at the same time and just felt like a bunch of mechanics thrown together without the actual experience of the gamer taken into consideration.

Such as?



Originally posted by Barfolomew's Galactic Rescue:
Final Fantasy games once were very consistent and once provided an experience to gamers that they loved. This game is trying to provide you with so many different experiences and did not take the time and care to actually ensure those were good experiences. "Remake" feels like it was made by many different discordant teams and then the final product was put together like a puzzle with pieces that do not fit one another.

7 million sold with around 90% of those viewing it favorably. Overwhelmingly, the game was well received. Since you wanted to inject how so many people bought and liked Witcher into the discussion, same deal here. Apply your own logic to your response here and out that goes. You're comparing arguably the best game of its decade against a game that was in the top 10 for its release year. Both did well, just Witcher 3 was a runaway hit. I could say take OG FFVII and compare it to GTA V and being like, "see? FFVII's sales were anemic, and that speaks to the lack of quality of that title, because it was completely eclipsed by this other game."

Your post is just ever more word salad to try and rationalize your disliking this game and say without saying that that is the correct viewpoint. You keep authoritatively speaking for "gamers" when you're really only putting forth your personal, minority opinion. You keep tossing that stuff out, but it is always vague, unsubstantiated nonsense.
Zap Dec 29, 2023 @ 11:10am 
OK, I get it, you don't like me or my opinions. No problem.

Read the posts from the other people complaining about the combat system on here if you want answers to your "such as?" question. I will not explain something I have already explained 10 times again. Lol.

What's interesting is I myself and countless others have literally answered that question in detail multiple times on here, explaining thoroughly what it is about the combat system that is a problem for our experience, and yet the reply every single time is "please elaborate."

Really makes you scratch your head and wonder what is the nature of the one asking that question.
Zap Dec 29, 2023 @ 11:17am 
Originally posted by Observer:
Yeah this atb system is a pile of bad combat design. Even daring to put physical attack immunity + barriers to mock you. The hellhouse fight in the arena was an insult to combat system in gaming

The only way I enjoyed combat in this game was pretending it was a full action game and just used Cloud. The lack of gambits or programmable party member behavior was the single worst element of this combat system. All other problems like with the camera, ATB, stagger mechanic, are worsened by the fact that you have to manage two statues in a real-time combat battle. And you hit like a wet noodle to make non-boss battles take longer, forcing you to stagger repeatedly. It's MMO style combat rather than traditional strategy combat.
Zap Dec 29, 2023 @ 11:21am 
No, thanks friend. You're making it personal. Anyone reading this can see that I'm simply providing an opinion and that I am even in good faith answering your questions even though that's probably generous given the tone that's coming my way. Enjoy arguing with someone else about it.
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Date Posted: Dec 28, 2023 @ 1:55pm
Posts: 89