A plot point I felt was wasted potential (spoilers)

[Martin]

So, before going any further, I would like to make a couple of clarifications, I love the original, I felt that flaws and all Crisis Core was a great prequel and really liked the direction that the remake took.

I felt that they could’ve explored SOLDIER more and the impact that Zack left on the organization as a whole, on Crisis Core they make him the protégé of Angeal, one of the three legendary SOLDIER agents that build the reputation of the organization and how iconic the Buster Sword was, and how Zack himself became a legend after entering first class and inheriting the Buster Sword, becoming the friendly role model for other agents.

What bothered me was that save for a random extra that was just a Shinra infantry, nobody recognizes Cloud or more importantly, the Buster Sword.

I think that it would be far more engaging making Roche to look up to Zack much like young Cloud looked up to Sephiroth, giving him a personal reason to go and hunt Cloud “That’s the sword of a hero and it’s not yours”.

Or hell, what if Kunsel (Zack buddy on Crisis Core, who was a second class back there) is now a first class SOLDIER who has a misplaced vendetta against Cloud because he is now framed for Zack’s death by Shinra, which he believes because: “That sword is my friend’s and his master, and the only way for him to give it up was if he was dead”, maybe even going as far as trying to convince Aerith that it was Cloud that killed Zack for there was no other way for Cloud to have the Buster Sword.

I perfectly understand why it wasn’t this way, it needs you to have played Crisis Core, which not a lot of people did before playing the remake, it also ruins the reveal that was Cloud identity near the end of the original.

[Katitoff]

I don't think you've paid much attention to Crisis Core plot or Clouds origin.

Cloud was not framed for anything, Zack and Cloud were marked as escaped experiment subjects, Zacks disappearance was masked by KIA announcement, just like 3 S-class rogue soldiers before him.

No one recognizes Cloud, because Cloud was never a soldier, he was a regular grunt as he failed SOLDIER entry exam.

Shinra has plenty of SOLDIER and grunts of lower ranks and they are not concentrated in the area, better performing SOLDIER are dispatched on outside of Midgar missions and for all we know, Kunsel might be long dead himself.

Grunt in the story did not recognized Cloud because of SOLDIER affiliation, but because they served together, Cloud did not react to that, because he has amnesia and PTSD after CC events.

Really only one who could recognize that sword was Aerith but she already compares Cloud to Zack there and given Zack is alife in this timeline after whispers of fate were defeated(Fun fact: the 3 whisper bosses at the end were using the exact same weapons as 3 brothers antagonists from FF movie).

I really am eager to see where Zack being alife plotpoint will go with 2nd part and if we see Cloud and Zack and Aerith reunion.

[Lucus]

Originally posted by Katitoff:

No one recognizes Cloud, because Cloud was never a soldier, he was a regular grunt as he failed SOLDIER entry exam.

Shinra has plenty of SOLDIER and grunts of lower ranks and they are not concentrated in the area, better performing SOLDIER are dispatched on outside of Midgar missions and for all we know, Kunsel might be long dead himself.

kunsel is alive as evidenced by a militamen going to get him after recognising cloud.

it's possible cloud could have been a soldier trainee and quit partway through.(remember cloud is known to lie) there's even one trainee in crisis core that zack helps that has thoughts of quitting. the militiamen going to get kunsel implies he knows cloud and said militaman.

i find it strange that personnel from the milita and soldier could just happen to be friends given the rivalry of both organisations.

[Martin]

Originally posted by Katitoff:

I don't think you've paid much attention to Crisis Core plot or Clouds origin.

Cloud was not framed for anything, Zack and Cloud were marked as escaped experiment subjects, Zacks disappearance was masked by KIA announcement, just like 3 S-class rogue soldiers before him.

No one recognizes Cloud, because Cloud was never a soldier, he was a regular grunt as he failed SOLDIER entry exam.

Shinra has plenty of SOLDIER and grunts of lower ranks and they are not concentrated in the area, better performing SOLDIER are dispatched on outside of Midgar missions and for all we know, Kunsel might be long dead himself.

Grunt in the story did not recognized Cloud because of SOLDIER affiliation, but because they served together, Cloud did not react to that, because he has amnesia and PTSD after CC events.

Really only one who could recognize that sword was Aerith but she already compares Cloud to Zack there and given Zack is alife in this timeline after whispers of fate were defeated(Fun fact: the 3 whisper bosses at the end were using the exact same weapons as 3 brothers antagonists from FF movie).

This is what I'm trying to say, they did nothing with this when they could've, no one recognized the sword when it was an iconic weapon used by 2 legends of SOLDIER, and like you said, Cloud was a nobody, yet Shinra didn't try to frame him for Zack's death, it would’ve been a really easy way to motivate SOLDIER into hunting Cloud, making him the "failed SOLDIER turn terrorist that killed one of our own".

However, nobody on Shinra even seems to remember Zack, in Crisis Core he did made good friends with the Turks who spend a huge chunk of their time trying to find him after the Nibelheim incident, he defeated both Angeal and Genesis who were 2 of SOLDIER legends, he did became a SOLDIER legend with the Minerva quest line, in did save a bunch of people publicly when the Genesis copies attacked Junon, which after this people create the Zack fan club. But on the remake, nobody save for Aerith seems to even remember him (Cloud can't yet).

What I was trying to say is that I think it would've been cool to give SOLDIER agents a personal reason to go against Cloud, or simply give them more of an identity beyond a single mostly forgettable character like Roche, also Kunsel is confirmed to be alive, that same Shinra infantryman that recognized Cloud asked him to wait while he goes searching for Kunsel in the “Belly of the Beast” chapter.

[Space is the Place]

I really enjoy this discussions and I´m amazed of the encyclopedic knowledge some have of the game, really shows the love some people got for this game.

That being said, and without pretending to insult anyone, has anyone consider everyone could be both right and wrong?

Final Fantasy Vii, the OG, didn´t have a cohesive narrative in the same way we understand it, there was a lot left to interpretation, and let´s be real, mistranslation could also take part in this. Not to mention, even if it´s clear VII was pretty western oriented, it´s still a japanese game, and simply put the way they tell stories is far different than ours (for example, as anyone who sees anime would be aware the usual "I will find and kill THAT PERSON" is used a lot in anime when the specific character has not being reveal, as a way to not spoil things like genre; this would be the equivalent of english using "they", but it´s not a 1 to 1 translation. Small details like this do affect the end product specially back then when translators were less ready for subtle details like those)

And then there´s the whole plethora of things that came after explaining things, changing some things, maybe being more clear about certain parts but more obscure about others...

And if we start to consider this game which is like a paralel dimension... men, it´s just complicated. And me personally I feel like we should wait for the whole remake to be complet with all acts and the remake Crisis Core to come up to finally get that "A-ha" moment and we can finally connect all dots, at least when it comes down to this new version/universe/timeline or however they decide to define it.

[Lucus]

Originally posted by Space is the Banned:

And if we start to consider this game which is like a paralel dimension... men, it´s just complicated. And me personally I feel like we should wait for the whole remake to be complet with all acts and the remake Crisis Core to come up to finally get that "A-ha" moment and we can finally connect all dots, at least when it comes down to this new version/universe/timeline or however they decide to define it.

i don't see the point in remaking crisis core again. the whispers plot so far has barely any influence on zack so far.

something also worth noting about the whispers, based on the intel data on some of them i think each whisper is a person from the original timeline. why else would there be one that fights with a sword, one with guns and another with their bare hands (sound familiar?)

[Space is the Place]

Originally posted by Lucus:

i don't see the point in remaking crisis core again. the whispers plot so far has barely any influence on zack so far.

I though they announce they would do it, maybe I misread.

[Katitoff]

Originally posted by Lucus:

i don't see the point in remaking crisis core again. the whispers plot so far has barely any influence on zack so far.

Call me crazy, but I think, you know, NOT BEING DEAD is rather influential change for Zack so far.

I'm more curious HOW he is alife, is it a result of alternative timeline after beating fate, where he was able to beat his? Did events of Nibelheim played out differently? How went Hojos experiment on them this time?

That is all to answer for part 2, but no, CC should not be remade, it was remastered and that is what it deserved, wonderful blast from the past for modern visual demands. Remaking CC would destroy the character, so I'll stick to FF7r and remain open minded to Nomura changes and how that alternative timeline/path of fate will play out.

We already had some alternative fate and struggle against fate in Stranger of Paradise and I personally loved what they did there, I won't be dissapointed by reunion, but there is indeed a lot of questions.

[Lucus]

Originally posted by Katitoff:

Originally posted by Lucus:

i don't see the point in remaking crisis core again. the whispers plot so far has barely any influence on zack so far.

Call me crazy, but I think, you know, NOT BEING DEAD is rather influential change for Zack so far.

except that's literally just changing the ending of crisis core. i doubt there is much difference between the original course of events and the one where zack survives. zack still faces an entire army of shinra infantry. it wouldn't take much to change the outcome, like said infantry and their commanders making slightly different choices during the battle.