Classic normal mode - is it difficult at all?

[Windster]

Does the game offer any challenges in combat on classic normal mode?
I remember trying the demo back in the day and the combat was too easy so I grew bored. Not interested in the non-classic mode, since I want an experience more similar to the older games instead of a hack'n'slash-kind of feel.

[Naibreezy]

Mako lähetti viestin:

Naibreezy lähetti viestin:

Malding?Im not mad, but it does sound like u have a classic case of ad hominem.

You are. I dont know why but you are mad that this game makes you manage resources.

Naibreezy lähetti viestin:

I find the combat to be quite clunky. It appears to strive for RTC while simultaneously incorporating ATB elements, and the execution isn't optimal. Basic attacks deal little damage, and the dodging mechanic is ass, forcing reliance on blocking. However, blocking leads to damage, necessitating constant potion use. Unfortunately, potions consume ATB, leaving little room for more impactful abilities like magic. This creates a loop, especially against regular enemies, making the bosses seem comparatively weak.

Yep. Textbook case of skill issue.
ATB is the main damage dealer. Not just spells, all abilities and their utility (mostly based around pressuring and building stagger). There are lots of ways to build ATB fast, really fast. If done right you get so much ATB you'll worry more about healing animation lenght than its actual ATB cost.
Normal attacks dealing low damage is by design. They dont cost ATB, simply holding/mashing 1 button is not how its supposed to be played and higher damage on normal attack would certainly open such possibility.
Im not sure what loop are you talking about. If you take so much damage you constantly have to heal with little room for anything else then its clearly a skill issue. Healing in combat with field monsters is certainly something that should almost never happen. You can do by healing between fights, and obviosly not even after every fight.

You say im mad but ur the one who couldn't make any valid argument to my comment and said "Yes. Keep malding." u sound mad (classic case of Ad hominem.)

Not a textbook case of skill issue, a textbook case of skill issue is someone not being able to beat Margit the fell omen in Elden ring because of their skill or lack thereof. Me having an issue with the games mechanic has nothing to do with skill as I've beat the game.
The ATB being a the main damage dealer, being the way to heal being the way to use abilities spells and damn near everything else except for base attacks is clunky the way they put it in the game.
You said it yourself you have to take damage in this game thus fourth u have to heal being stuck in a loop do to the potions being locked to atb instead of being like KH and having 3 or 4 heals per battle that's not a skill issue that is just the game's mechanics clunky

[Naibreezy]

Yílõng Má lähetti viestin:

Naibreezy lähetti viestin:

I find the combat to be quite clunky. It appears to strive for RTC while simultaneously incorporating ATB elements, and the execution isn't optimal. Basic attacks deal little damage, and the dodging mechanic is ass, forcing reliance on blocking. However, blocking leads to damage, necessitating constant potion use. Unfortunately, potions consume ATB, leaving little room for more impactful abilities like magic. This creates a loop, especially against regular enemies, making the bosses seem comparatively weak.

Honestly, this combat feels like a dumbed-down Kingdom Hearts with the ATB gauge thrown in

Because this is not an action game! This is a turn based game with action features lol :lol_tk:. You are supposed to get hit, you are supposed to heal. That's why ATB management is a thing. That's also why your combo attack deals little damage, because the true damage comes from ATB command.

What are you on about this is an action game an action RPG to be exact. Just because the games turn based with action features does not mean it's not anaction game And it's not a turn-based game it's not at all you're not waiting your turn to attack. You can attack whenever

Yes you're supposed to get hit and you're supposed to heal that is the idea of most RPG games and in this game you manage that with the ATB in this game but because potions are locked to ATB you end up wasting an ATB bar on using a potion instead of the potions being separate and being a limited use similar to Kingdom hearts which means you can end up stuck in a loop till you manage to beat the enemy or run out of potions hence potion spamming.

If the true damage comes from the ATB command then why have normal attacks why not just make this an actual turn-based game?
That's why the combat is clunky. This is a real-time combat game that tries to play like a turn-based game.

[Observer]

Yes normal mode is extremely easy and most of the time it's button smashing especially because of ATB and where you have to use spells agianst physical immune bosses you have to button smash more since you need ATB bar full and click through a menu for spells which feels very slow and unfun.

[Weltall8000]

Observer lähetti viestin:

Yes normal mode is extremely easy and most of the time it's button smashing especially because of ATB and where you have to use spells agianst physical immune bosses you have to button smash more since you need ATB bar full and click through a menu for spells which feels very slow and unfun.

So, is it button mashing or is it meticulously hunting through menus? Which is it?

What are shortcuts again?

[Xengre]

Observer lähetti viestin:

Yes normal mode is extremely easy and most of the time it's button smashing especially because of ATB and where you have to use spells agianst physical immune bosses you have to button smash more since you need ATB bar full and click through a menu for spells which feels very slow and unfun.

Button mashing?

Barrett can generate ATB in like two button presses. Just his alternate attack, alone, generates nearly the full 2 ATB. A little basic attack to top it off. Pretty much near instant results.

Cloud generates ATB fast, with 2 ATB taking probably a little around 2s. A few presses, but hardly that spammy.

Aerith also generates quite fast, granted not "as fast" but her trade off is she hits entire groups of targets with magic dmg for basic attacks which is actually extremely strong (esp considering her insane magic attack stat). Literally just hold the button to boot, so not exactly spamming attack.

Tifa is the only moderately slower one. Can increase it with some of her speed oriented builds, though, and often acts as an ATB battery for many player's usage.

You can also use haste or the best combo haste + magnify to automatically generate very fast ATB for your entire team on top of any you would generate, yourself. It is good enough that you don't even have to swap to other characters at all.

If it got any faster you would be doing nothing but spamming ATB moves which would defeat the entire purpose of the system. It is quite clear you don't even understand the basic design choices of the system, or from an efficiency perspective you just aren't good at the game.

I only recall one physically immune boss in the entire game, at least off the top of my head. That would be the train graveyard boss.

The menu takes like 2-3 seconds. Don't pretend its some convoluted maze you are trying to dig through every time you use a skill. It is absolutely simpler than almost any other existing JRPG. You can't claim favor of other JRPGs over this one but then simultaneously hate this one for doing something like this that the others you favor are worse at. As Weltall pointed out, you can also set most commonly used skills/magic to shortcuts if you wanted.

It isn't slow, but I should also point out this is effectively a turn based JRPG. If you want an action game go play Final Fantasy XV, XVI, Ninja Gaiden, or another appropriate game. It is asinine to complain that a game does something it was built for because you walked into the wrong genre.

[Mako]

Naibreezy lähetti viestin:

You say im mad but ur the one who couldn't make any valid argument to my comment and said "Yes. Keep malding." u sound mad (classic case of Ad hominem.)

Not a textbook case of skill issue, a textbook case of skill issue is someone not being able to beat Margit the fell omen in Elden ring because of their skill or lack thereof. Me having an issue with the games mechanic has nothing to do with skill as I've beat the game.
The ATB being a the main damage dealer, being the way to heal being the way to use abilities spells and damn near everything else except for base attacks is clunky the way they put it in the game.
You said it yourself you have to take damage in this game thus fourth u have to heal being stuck in a loop do to the potions being locked to atb instead of being like KH and having 3 or 4 heals per battle that's not a skill issue that is just the game's mechanics clunky

Even more obvious malding.
Such response is the only valid response to what you say btw. Because to me its obvious that you have no idea what are you even talking about.

Game is easy AF, its possible to beat it without ever learning anything. Doesnt mean you cant have skill issue in it. And you obviously have.
The combat didnt click with you because you've made no attempt to do so. Instead you want to skip the learning process by making the game yet another clone of something you have already played. But game's own only fault is that it allows to beat it without learning it, being far too easy.
Yes, I said you are meant to take damage. But never to the point of creating any kind of healing loops. Thats just skill issue. Even that talk about potions is an instant giveaway. Potions become useless and absolete in 2nd half of the game, and on hard you arent even allowed to use them. And since on hard MP refills only once per chapter you arent ever allowed to fall into any kind of "healing loops" or any other nonsense you are talking about.
TL/DR: L2P.

[Naibreezy]

Mako lähetti viestin:

Naibreezy lähetti viestin:

You say im mad but ur the one who couldn't make any valid argument to my comment and said "Yes. Keep malding." u sound mad (classic case of Ad hominem.)

Not a textbook case of skill issue, a textbook case of skill issue is someone not being able to beat Margit the fell omen in Elden ring because of their skill or lack thereof. Me having an issue with the games mechanic has nothing to do with skill as I've beat the game.
The ATB being a the main damage dealer, being the way to heal being the way to use abilities spells and damn near everything else except for base attacks is clunky the way they put it in the game.
You said it yourself you have to take damage in this game thus fourth u have to heal being stuck in a loop do to the potions being locked to atb instead of being like KH and having 3 or 4 heals per battle that's not a skill issue that is just the game's mechanics clunky

Even more obvious malding.
Such response is the only valid response to what you say btw. Because to me its obvious that you have no idea what are you even talking about.

Game is easy AF, its possible to beat it without ever learning anything. Doesnt mean you cant have skill issue in it. And you obviously have.
The combat didnt click with you because you've made no attempt to do so. Instead you want to skip the learning process by making the game yet another clone of something you have already played. But game's own only fault is that it allows to beat it without learning it, being far too easy.
Yes, I said you are meant to take damage. But never to the point of creating any kind of healing loops. Thats just skill issue. Even that talk about potions is an instant giveaway. Potions become useless and absolete in 2nd half of the game, and on hard you arent even allowed to use them. And since on hard MP refills only once per chapter you arent ever allowed to fall into any kind of "healing loops" or any other nonsense you are talking about.
TL/DR: L2P.

"Even more obvious malding." I know you are but what am I

I'm convinced you don't even know what you're arguing against anymore as you've got no counter-arguments to the original argument.
If you think I have a skill issue that sounds like a you problem and keep on crying about it.
Also, the combat didn't click with me because I dislike the combat and if I hadn't made an attempt I wouldn't have put 40 hours into the game.

I Played the game, Found issues with the game(dodge mechanic being ass), beat the game, and found I don't particularly like the combat, then I give solutions to the things I don't like based on games that did it far better.

The potions become horrible(Obsolete) late game, you take more damage late game, you HAVE to take damage, you need to heal(you stack up on them, potions heal less so you need more healing, potions are locked to atb, you still HAVE to take damage. if you don't die you end up in a healing loop till u die or kill the enemy.
not sure y ur bringing up hard mode if you can't heal in battle when I'm talking about healing.

Learn 2 Argue and learn 2 read

[Mako]

Why do you keep writing all this nonsense and embarassing yourself?
"No you" is all that is left for you, it seems.

There are no issues with how dodge works in this game and it needs no solutions from people like you. It is you who needs to git gud and actually learn this game without falling into healing loops. Your posts reek of skill issue. Simple fact.

People have been playing FF games with ATB for decades. In all of them you are supposed to take damage. In almost all of them healing potions lose their usefullness in late game. Yet I've never seen anyone openly admitting falling into healing loops all the time and blaming game design for it.

Giving advice/feedback without knowing the subject is what you do. The value of such advice/feedback falls into negatives.

I'm bringing up hard mode exactly because you cant use potions. Yet its more than doable (easy even most of the time). That proves that all your issues are your issues and yours alone (and maybe some other unskilled individuals who simply refuse to learn and adapt).

There is no point in arguing with someone who is so stuck in his wrong ideas. Just like you refused to learn the game you are refusing to accept that you are wrong, no matter how painfully obvious it is. Im not doing it for you because I dont care about your opinion. Im creating this counterargument so there is no false impression that your feedback is anything but BS.

Also dont talk about original arguments. You necroed and hijacked a thread that had nothing to do with your issues in the first place. Read the damn title if you have any doubts about it.

[Naibreezy]

Mako lähetti viestin:

Why do you keep writing all this nonsense and embarassing yourself?
"No you" is all that is left for you, it seems.

There are no issues with how dodge works in this game and it needs no solutions from people like you. It is you who needs to git gud and actually learn this game without falling into healing loops. Your posts reek of skill issue. Simple fact.

People have been playing FF games with ATB for decades. In all of them you are supposed to take damage. In almost all of them healing potions lose their usefullness in late game. Yet I've never seen anyone openly admitting falling into healing loops all the time and blaming game design for it.

Giving advice/feedback without knowing the subject is what you do. The value of such advice/feedback falls into negatives.

I'm bringing up hard mode exactly because you cant use potions. Yet its more than doable (easy even most of the time). That proves that all your issues are your issues and yours alone (and maybe some other unskilled individuals who simply refuse to learn and adapt).

There is no point in arguing with someone who is so stuck in his wrong ideas. Just like you refused to learn the game you are refusing to accept that you are wrong, no matter how painfully obvious it is. Im not doing it for you because I dont care about your opinion. Im creating this counterargument so there is no false impression that your feedback is anything but BS.

Also dont talk about original arguments. You necroed and hijacked a thread that had nothing to do with your issues in the first place. Read the damn title if you have any doubts about it.

Don't talk about embarrassing when u said " Yes. Keep malding. " after you couldn't come up with any good counterarguments and you didn't even quote me correctly I didn't say "no you" I said " I know you are but what am I" and that was a response to u saying the same insult.

If there were no issues with the dodge in this game then FF7 Rebirth wouldn't be tweaking it now would they? and disliking a mechanic isn't a skill issue but if you really think that then that's a you problem simple fact.

in most cases, this healing loop doesn't exist because most to all FF games are turn-based ATB. You can't truly avoid damage which leads to heal spamming. the game has a clunky design.

Steam has a 2-hour refund policy, in most cases, people find their issue in 2 hours. I spent 40 hours in this game I'm certain I know what I'm talking about.

yes, hard mode is doable if you like spongy enemies I don't. Also, you're finally understanding that they're my issues hence my complaints and others have similar issues but if you think that it's just a skill issue then that's a you problem as I said before.

you say there's no point in arguing yet you continue to argue. and if i'm my ideas are wrong then why is Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth fixing them?
I don't care for learning a game's combat I don't enjoy.
You say " Im creating this counterargument so there is no false impression that your feedback is anything but BS. " yet most of your counterarguments are ass and my "feedback" is not BS as Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth is addressing most of the "feedback" I have.

No actually let's talk about original arguments as mine had nothing to do with you yet you responded. Then have the audacity to say that I " hijacked a thread that had nothing to do with your issues in the first place " My original comment was about someone talking about difficulty and not engaging which i pretty much said the games not hard and the game has some ♥♥♥♥ mechanics. You pushed this thread off course by being the one who only responded to my comments about the dodge roll and the enemies being RTC.
Also, don't bring up necroing the thread as you took part in necroing this thread by responding to a comment that wasn't aimed toward you.

[Mako]

I see you are very instistent on staying on this downward spiral of self-embarassment.
What counterarguments? You kept comparing phasing through solid matter to high jumps which can be explained by super soldier strength. Hilarious take in its own right. It didnt even occur to me that this needs any counterarguments. But here we are.

Anything related to Rebirth is just speculation. So stop bringing it up. Contructing whole post in "no you" manner isnt gonna work either because really you have no ground to stand on. Except for those laughable 40 hours of struggling to understand basic game mechanics.
And you've got cause and effect backwards. You didnt enjoy this combat because you didnt learn it (also you finally admited it, we see some progress), not the other way around.

How being turn based affects healing loops? Enemies are also restricted by ATB in FF7R. They cant just spam attacks and actually have to wait for their turn just like player needs to charge ATB to do anything meaningfull. There really is no difference except now both you and enemies can move around so positioning becomes important and dictates who can attack who.
If you facetank, take way too much damage, fall into healing loop and cry about it then its just skill issue. Obvious fact.

Spongy enemies on hard mode? You really are exceptionally ignorant. At this point player get so many tools to destroy all enemies in seconds, any complaints about "spongy enemies" is just another "git gud" material.

Yes, you did hijack this thread. It never was about just difficulty. It was about how well classic mode is done (spoiler alert: not good at all) and its effect on difficulty.
RTC enemies? Yet another clueless hot take from you. Unlike actual action games all enemies in FF7R have massive downtime between their actions because they are also restricted by their own ATB/cooldowns.
The only logical conclusion from all this is that you played with 1 hand, blindfolded, somehow finished the game (because it really is easy) while still struggling with basic mechanics all the way. And now you are posting your negative value feedback about your experiences. That is pretty much what is happening here.

[Naibreezy]

Mako lähetti viestin:

I see you are very instistent on staying on this downward spiral of self-embarassment.
What counterarguments? You kept comparing phasing through solid matter to high jumps which can be explained by super soldier strength. Hilarious take in its own right. It didnt even occur to me that this needs any counterarguments. But here we are.

Anything related to Rebirth is just speculation. So stop bringing it up. Contructing whole post in "no you" manner isnt gonna work either because really you have no ground to stand on. Except for those laughable 40 hours of struggling to understand basic game mechanics.
And you've got cause and effect backwards. You didnt enjoy this combat because you didnt learn it (also you finally admited it, we see some progress), not the other way around.

How being turn based affects healing loops? Enemies are also restricted by ATB in FF7R. They cant just spam attacks and actually have to wait for their turn just like player needs to charge ATB to do anything meaningfull. There really is no difference except now both you and enemies can move around so positioning becomes important and dictates who can attack who.
If you facetank, take way too much damage, fall into healing loop and cry about it then its just skill issue. Obvious fact.

Spongy enemies on hard mode? You really are exceptionally ignorant. At this point player get so many tools to destroy all enemies in seconds, any complaints about "spongy enemies" is just another "git gud" material.

Yes, you did hijack this thread. It never was about just difficulty. It was about how well classic mode is done (spoiler alert: not good at all) and its effect on difficulty.
RTC enemies? Yet another clueless hot take from you. Unlike actual action games all enemies in FF7R have massive downtime between their actions because they are also restricted by their own ATB/cooldowns.
The only logical conclusion from all this is that you played with 1 hand, blindfolded, somehow finished the game (because it really is easy) while still struggling with basic mechanics all the way. And now you are posting your negative value feedback about your experiences. That is pretty much what is happening here.

bro cloud can phase as he does in the fight with Sepiroth and... wait we already did this Why are you bringing this back up even though u had no good counterarguments and u still don't. ( also cloud can phase in FF7 Rebirth)

FF7 Rebirth is releasing in little over a month what do you mean " Anything related to Rebirth is just speculation " there so much gameplay footage and information so no im not gonna stop bringing it up as it proves some of my points.
Bro really doesn't know how to quote properly. If u think I'm struggling to understand the mechanics than good for you. I don't enjoy this games combat because i dont enjoy the games combat. never said i didn't learn this games combat though i said "I don't care for learning a game's combat I don't enjoy." show me where i said i didn't learn THIS games combat.

Don't know what ur on about with this paragraph but what u said sounds clunky.
You say ur supposed to take damage so it ain't a skill issue it's the games design.

ok and don't care not gonna play hard mode so i don't care if the enemies are spongy or not.

i didnt hijack the thread as by ur logic " It never was about just difficulty. It was about how well classic mode is done (spoiler alert: not good at all) and its effect on difficulty. "
Welta8000 hijacked the thread then.

" RTC enemies? Yet another clueless hot take from you. " what r u on about? never gave a hot take. yet u already gave what could be ur only good counterargument as I didn't respond because u were right about that. more and more u show u do not know what ur arguing against anymore like ur arguing against the air now.

If u think i beat the game like that good for you. 👍
huh 👁️👄👁️ "And now you are posting your negative value feedback about your experiences. That is pretty much what is happening here." what r u on about here giving negative feedback is one of the reasons steam discussions exist

[Mako]

What fight with Sephiroth? The one that mimics original game and happens inside Clouds head where laws of physics need not apply? That fight with Sephiroth? LMAO.

There is nothing that indicates presence of i-frames in recent Rebirth footage. You put all your money on something that resembles carthus milkring effect in some early (months old) demo and may not even had i-frames to begin with.

Its pretty damn obvious that you didnt understand anything about FF7R combat. All your silly takes indicate this. The cat is out of the bag already, too late for backpedaling. You clearly didnt learn THIS game's combat
Healing loops, spongy enemies, RTC enemies (this claim in particular requires you to pay 0 attention at all to what is happening around). None of this exists.

I said you are supposed to take damage but I didnt mean A LOT of damage by that. Clearly nothing close to be put in a healing loop or anything like it.
When you block you still take damage. No biggie. Pop a regen spell if it bothers you. As a tradeoff you get more ATB for blocking. So blocking lets you take more action as opposed to rolling for days. And its a faster action on its own because you can block for exact time needed while dodge has a certain and very substantial animation length, this again puts you faster back in action. This being said dodge is still pretty usefull and I pressed dodge button just as many times as block. But its a bit different here, dodge is mainly used for repositioning and as an alternative to canceling Cloud's punisher mode with upward blade attack.

Your feedback has negative value because its not based on any knowledge of the game and its actual flaws (which are many). Its based solely off your skill issue. Simple truth you are so desperately trying to ignore.

[Naibreezy]

Mako lähetti viestin:

What fight with Sephiroth? The one that mimics original game and happens inside Clouds head where laws of physics need not apply? That fight with Sephiroth? LMAO.

There is nothing that indicates presence of i-frames in recent Rebirth footage. You put all your money on something that resembles carthus milkring effect in some early (months old) demo and may not even had i-frames to begin with.

Its pretty damn obvious that you didnt understand anything about FF7R combat. All your silly takes indicate this. The cat is out of the bag already, too late for backpedaling. You clearly didnt learn THIS game's combat
Healing loops, spongy enemies, RTC enemies (this claim in particular requires you to pay 0 attention at all to what is happening around). None of this exists.

I said you are supposed to take damage but I didnt mean A LOT of damage by that. Clearly nothing close to be put in a healing loop or anything like it.
When you block you still take damage. No biggie. Pop a regen spell if it bothers you. As a tradeoff you get more ATB for blocking. So blocking lets you take more action as opposed to rolling for days. And its a faster action on its own because you can block for exact time needed while dodge has a certain and very substantial animation length, this again puts you faster back in action. This being said dodge is still pretty usefull and I pressed dodge button just as many times as block. But its a bit different here, dodge is mainly used for repositioning and as an alternative to canceling Cloud's punisher mode with upward blade attack.

Your feedback has negative value because its not based on any knowledge of the game and its actual flaws (which are many). Its based solely off your skill issue. Simple truth you are so desperately trying to ignore.

The final fight in FF7 remake does not take place in cloud's head I'm not sure where you get that idea (reddit) but if it really does take place in cloud's head give me the facts and evidence because as far as I know nowhere does it stay or show that it takes place in clouds head.
Either or he's doing stuff based off what he can already do

The footage I showed I never said it was iframes I said it was a perfect Dodge dodging at the right possible time to avoid all damage similar to Spider-Man

You still didn't show me where I said I didn't learn this combat but if you really think that as I said before good for you cry me a river.

You said you're supposed to take damage you didn't State whether it was a little or a lot by the war you pop a region that is a heal you are still heal spamming.
You gave two reasons why the Dodge is useful but both those reasons can do without a Dodge thus forth it's not that useful.

Feedback is feedback no matter if it's negative or positive. Whether you agree with my feedback or not doesn't matter at this point you're just crying because I don't enjoy the combat and am giving feedback on it.
And the simple truth is if you think it's due to skill issues and that's a you problem.🫵

[EF_Neo1st]

Mako lähetti viestin:

What fight with Sephiroth? The one that mimics original game and happens inside Clouds head where laws of physics need not apply? That fight with Sephiroth? LMAO.

Sorry but that is absolute "head canon".
Yes, Sephiroth is inside Cloud head but when they face Sephiroth in the "real final fight" it IS Sephiroth in the original, as much as at the movie when Cloud fights Sephiroth, he just "reborn" at someone else.

Sephiroth is an entity that never dies as long as there is someone with the "stigma" for him to reborn as he is the son o Jenova.

Cloud "remembers" parts of this, to what Sephiroth makes reference when talking to him at this remake, but it seem to be "another reality" and yes, whenever Spehiroth actually did something in the original Cloud was also to not be found and vice versa, just on his meemories that until they really go to fight Sephiroth.

[Mako]

EF_Neo1st lähetti viestin:

Mako lähetti viestin:

What fight with Sephiroth? The one that mimics original game and happens inside Clouds head where laws of physics need not apply? That fight with Sephiroth? LMAO.

Sorry but that is absolute "head canon".
Yes, Sephiroth is inside Cloud head but when they face Sephiroth in the "real final fight" it IS Sephiroth in the original, as much as at the movie when Cloud fights Sephiroth, he just "reborn" at someone else.

We are talking about actual final encounter? Where those two are at a barren planet with no oxigen. Its happening inside Cloud's head. And even before that right after arbiters fight this is clearly also not a real world. That one isnt a dream, as other party members also experience it but its not a real world either. All that destruction and gravity defying things dont affect the world they return to afterwards.