I recently went back to play the original FF7 and came to a realization:

[Krystal]

WARNING! THIS POST IS GOING TO BE LONG as it entails my detailed thoughts on playing through both the remake and the original FF7 be prepared to pack a lunch for this post. XD

So having beat this game and left my review which was mostly positive I decided to go back and play the OG FF7, the game that bore many final fantasy fans.

Almost immediately i noticed something felt different when starting up the original FF7, while Remake was action-packed from the beginning, FF7 felt more traditional almost natural in from the opening scene jumping off the train gave me that rush of excitement that Remake didn't give me.

I couldn't quite figure out why, at first I thought it was nostalgia for the original but the more I played the more it became clear...

The remake was missing something, something the original FF7 had from its opening moments but I couldn't quite pin on what the original FF7 had that Remake somehow lacked.

So I kept playing, now one thing I will say is that the Remake did a good job clarifying some storybeats the original FF7 left vague but somehow, that didn't bother me in the slightest, in fact when i got to certain points in FF7's story my mind immediately shot back to filler content or the crapton of sidequests the game would throw at me at certain points and i found myself oddly feeling happy they were missing yet I couldn't figure out why. I mean, sidequests are a staple of RPGs so why would I be glad to have them absent?

I wouldn't be until much later that I would get my answer to this question but for now I was back at the point in the game where Remake had ended... Yep, I was in Shinra HQ coming to rescue Aries. However, unlike in Remake where things felt like they fell apart plotwise, the game continued as normal and before i knew it, i was there, I was at the point where Remake had ended except there was no anti-climatic Sephiroth fight, just the wide open world of FF7 to explore.

It was at this point I realized one vital thing was missing from the Remake that this version had: A sense of exploration. But that wasn't the only vital thing that Remake was missing I realized as I kept playing, several scenes where Cloud's unstable mind and how they were handled.

Looking back at remake, Cloud always acted like he was suffering from a headache and yet nothing really came of these scenes unless included some kind of future sight flashback of the future of the game's plot.

In the original FF7 everytime cloud suffered from these headaches the astute player would realize the headache, the static sounds, the flashing effect, followed by him suddenly resuming his confident demeanor, something was VERY OFF about him yet we couldn't quite figure it out yet.

In Remake, it was almost as if he behaved like a PTSD victim with his vivid psychotic episodes where he saw stuff that wasn't really there. He also behaved VERY HOMICIDALLY in remake, like he was willing to kill 3 different people and if Tifa hadn't stopped him, he would have. The subtle unstable nature was thrown away in favor of a damn near sociopathic character.

In other words: The cloud we knew from FF7 is not the same Cloud in the Remake. This was the second vital thing missing from the Remake that FF7 had.

And finally, the last thing the original FF7 had that remake was missing, sidequests that felt like real sidequests. In remake, the sidequests felt painfully simple and lackluster, almost no depth to them at all. In the original FF7 they aren't straightforward at all and they're just there, for you to complete if you want.

In Remake however, they are slapped in your face so hard that it feels as if the game is BEGGING YOU to complete them. I realized when playing the original FF7 that i missed this subtle nature of sidequests.

So in summation,

The Remake lacked a sense of exploration, Cloud's original character, and sidequests that felt subtle and natural to pursue. This in combination with its plot related retconning made me realize that the original FF7 has something that Remake will never have:

A soul, something that made the game feel alive and fills players would a sense of excitement from the moment they jump off the train. Something they can't get from Remake because the action-based combat immediately steals away the sense of excitement and wonderment you get from the very first "whoosh" of the battle transition.

Remake is a good game don't get me wrong but after playing the OG FF7 again, i feel as if they should of not have titled it Final Fantasy 7 Remake as by doing so, does a disservice to the original. Perhaps a more proper title would be:

Final Fantasy VII: Destiny's Crossroads

Since the entire theme of Remake seems to be defying destiny, I feel as though this game could be a great spinoff title to FF7 a giant "What if!" storyline if you will.

By branding it as the "original FF7" being "Remade", the devs will do little more than piss off OG fans with each episode they release unless they "retcon" Remake in their next episode and follow the original plot.

[Talana 💃]

I agree with you in absolutely everything - these were all my observations , too.
FFVII Remake is beautiful and fun to play, absolutely. But it is nothing special and will never become a classic . No real depth to it .

[bla]

I thought they did an incredible job with the remake. They really captured the essence of the characters and the story and updated it for a new generation that is very different than our generation. I was so impressed and think that they need to finish the story with sequels, and the series will go down in history as one of the best series ever. My only problem is I didn't get to play Red 13. He was one of my favorite characters in the original, but hopefully I will in the sequels.

[Xengre]

You mention a "sense of exploration" is missing from the remake but in the original. This comment was placed at, well, Midgar and particularly Shinra building... This is the portion of the game that is famous for being, well, linear and the opposite of exploring. In addition, the remake actually is less linear and much more free with its open hubs, larger and more open dungeons (in some cases at least, others are somewhat linear while all of FF7's largely are). In addition, the portion after Midgar is open in the original but... episode 1 does not cover that section. There's more though... Episode 2 is confirmed to be next-gen only to have more open design areas to satisfy this very issue at the same point as the original.

You talked about Cloud's unstable mind but the remake did the same as the original for the Midgar section. It isn't really until after Midgar, which episode 1 doesn't cover, that this started to manifest as something more than holding his head. In fact, the remake actually dives more into the reunion issue (Tifa's neighbor, Sephiroth, Hojo, the black clothed numbered people, etc.) as well as the whole Jenova/Sephiroth thing already significantly while the original only touched it a single time (the pipe with the random numbered guy who was sick when you escaped the church and were on the way to Aerith's home).

You then went on about how Cloud was having psychotic episodes and nearly killed/beat people but do you remember this in the original?
https://youtu.be/VpbVkfboD-4?t=1260
Notice at 21:00 when he breaks down and shoves Aerith to the ground and starts attacking? We don't know what exactly he was doing due to the old school visuals such as hitting the ground or what though we clearly see him shove Aerith down and our other party members freak out yelling at him. This is actually worse than any of the incidents you brought up.

I don't agree with you as to them having "messed up" anything with the ending of episode 1 remake, but you didn't really seem to have an explanation as to how it was messed up, either. You also failed to explain the entire first chunk of your post and stated you actually weren't even sure.

Tbh, I don't really agree with your post's reasoning.

[Weltall8000]

I am just past the dropping of the plate in Sector 7 on my first playthrough of FFVII Remake. I have played OG FFVII many times, with a complete, "destroy the game" run within the past six months. Unless something drastically changes, here are my thoughts on this:

I initially really loved Remake. Through the first mission and getting back to Seventh Heaven, it was great. It petered off in many areas for me after that. It is much more of a mixed bag. However, Remake nails the characters. They expanded several characters and made them more fleshed out and almost always it worked to enhance my view of a given member of our cast. Especially Cloud. This point I completely disagree with OP on. Cloud's characterization (unless this drastically changes between chapter 13 and the end)? Cloud is more believable, his transformation has time to mature and it does a good job with tying into the Jenova Reunion. Since it is probably expected we already know who Sephiroth is due to the fame of OG, his introduction earlier and him showing up in the hallucinations talking with Cloud, add to the experience. The mystery (at least the mystery from the original) is probably known by the audience, so they can allude to some of these things without ruining the non existent surprise twist. As such, they introduce this connection early and we really get to see that Cloud is not well and Sephiroth is absolutely messing with his head all the time. Cloud does not know what is real. And he has to somehow cope with this and know how to act in spite of it. This comes across much better in this iteration.

The exploration, I kinda sorta agree, in that in Remake, I feel that I am walking down a tunnel most of the time. Even if, especially in Midgar, in OG, I didn't have a lot of options, Remake discourages me from roaming around when I want to and even if I'm following along where it leads me by the nose...it often even decides my pace too. Long stretches of me just chilling there leaning back holding forward or tapping the advance button, waiting for the opportunity to play again. It also really annoys me when I step into the next not-so-obvious checkpoint and I cannot go back to check out another route. Even when there isn't an apparent narrative reason why Cloud couldn't just peek back.

I think what I liked overall better about OG vs Remake is that OG struck a better balance of narrative dump and "here's a game for you to play." I will exclude the world map, which I enjoyed, because at this point in the story, OG didn't open that up to the player yet. But I would be remiss if I didn't point out that OG Midgar was 4-6 hours on a first playthrough vs, what I imagine to be closer to 40 here. So, six hour of linear vs 30-40 is a big difference, and OG had the promise of getting there in its game. Remake 1 does not. But probably my biggest issue with this game is the pacing. It just feels like a drag between interesting plot points unless we're doing something compelling with the principle characters. The quests, were pretty simple mechanically, and did not add much to the characters IMO, beyond showing us that, "yeah, Midgar is lived in." Virtually all the new quests did nothing to endear me to Midgar or its denizens. Like, I don't care at all about Leaf House or Tifa's landlady, etc. A couple fetch/kill X quests didn't/wouldn't have changed that. And the time with Tifa and Aerith during them didn't feel unique or well utilized.

I do not love action RPGs and I haven't played any modern ones in several years, so, not sure if this is specific to FFVII Remake, but, the combat is surprisingly more fun than I'd have expected for the style. Even though I love turn based this was usually exciting. Dungeons in this game are fun to explore and fight in. I could have done with a little more fighting, I haven't ever felt "ugh, another fight, ugh" that could happen in older games, and to an extent, FFVII could get a bit tedious with them. However, OG's areas were smaller. Boss fights...have felt needlessly long and charging ATB is a bit annoying when the bosses shrug off the hits and fly around the arena.

At this juncture, I firmly hold OG FFVII > FFVII Remake, but Remake does feel like an interesting endeavor for existing fans. I cannot ever play this from the perspective of one who had no idea what FFVII was and I can't fathom what that would be like, (I wonder what they make of this?), so I can't judge it on that front unclouded (nyuknyuk), but I suspect the appeal wouldn't be the same. As a fan (that is probably 2/3 through with it and playing every night!), overall, I like it, with some mild to moderate complaints.

[manfred.stabentheiner]

remake not only for player who played the orginal
the son of my son say to me for an week wow an cool game and he play it now and dont let me go to my pc when he is here at my house
and thats the point
the next generation need games with cool grafik and timebased and an remake dont need 100 % same us the orginal
after 25 years now i palyed the remake and for me is all ok

[Krystal]

Escrito originalmente por Xengre:

You mention a "sense of exploration" is missing from the remake but in the original. This comment was placed at, well, Midgar and particularly Shinra building... This is the portion of the game that is famous for being, well, linear and the opposite of exploring. In addition, the remake actually is less linear and much more free with its open hubs, larger and more open dungeons (in some cases at least, others are somewhat linear while all of FF7's largely are). In addition, the portion after Midgar is open in the original but... episode 1 does not cover that section. There's more though... Episode 2 is confirmed to be next-gen only to have more open design areas to satisfy this very issue at the same point as the original.

You talked about Cloud's unstable mind but the remake did the same as the original for the Midgar section. It isn't really until after Midgar, which episode 1 doesn't cover, that this started to manifest as something more than holding his head. In fact, the remake actually dives more into the reunion issue (Tifa's neighbor, Sephiroth, Hojo, the black clothed numbered people, etc.) as well as the whole Jenova/Sephiroth thing already significantly while the original only touched it a single time (the pipe with the random numbered guy who was sick when you escaped the church and were on the way to Aerith's home).

You then went on about how Cloud was having psychotic episodes and nearly killed/beat people but do you remember this in the original?
https://youtu.be/VpbVkfboD-4?t=1260
Notice at 21:00 when he breaks down and shoves Aerith to the ground and starts attacking? We don't know what exactly he was doing due to the old school visuals such as hitting the ground or what though we clearly see him shove Aerith down and our other party members freak out yelling at him. This is actually worse than any of the incidents you brought up.

I don't agree with you as to them having "messed up" anything with the ending of episode 1 remake, but you didn't really seem to have an explanation as to how it was messed up, either. You also failed to explain the entire first chunk of your post and stated you actually weren't even sure.

Tbh, I don't really agree with your post's reasoning.

Okay, there's not agreeing with me and then there's indirectly more or less saying: You're full of ♥♥♥♥, FF7 Remake is god-tier and has no flaws at all." And before you deny it, let me point out where you not-so-subtly did this by highlighting the parts in my quote box with bold.

You like remake, fine, I won't argue that, its a good game but don't sit there and subtly say in something damn near as a "passive aggressive" tone that I don't know what I'm talking about and damn near white knight remake as some "Masterpiece" when it has MANY FLAWS.

Hell, OG FF7 has MANY FLAWS, vague story writing at times, plot pacing, and in some cases, lack of character development(looking at you, Vincent)

EDIT: Oh and about your clip, yes, that is "Cloud gone utter nutcase" but in that scene we have no idea if Sehpiroth is controlling him, making him beat her or he mentally lost it post sephiroth control and had a violent freakout.

DOUBLE EDIT: Also, as i would like to point out, this violent freakout didn't happen until late into disk 1, yes, cloud got progressively more violent and unstable as the game progressed into disk 2 but Remake doesn't focus on that and in disk 1 where Remake is focused, all we knew of cloud was "something was off" based on the static sound effects, the flashing, and his sudden confident demeanor afterward. It almost felt as if something in his head was "backfiring" hense the static/ringing sounds and him grabbing his head and the flash of light was Jenova cells/his fragile mental state "fixing itself" before he "broke down" in a very sudden nature.

[Weltall8000]

deathsia, Xengre's post was civil and reasoned. While they clearly disagreed with you, it did not come off to this observer as mean-spirited or insulting. They question your position and give an explanation and evidence to support their disagreement with your position.

Your reply was rather hostile and not conducive for further discussion on the subject. Maybe you could stick to the points/arguments and we could have a more meaningful back and forth. Maybe you, Xengre, or someone else, could learn something or see some aspect in a new light from this?

P. Quincy T., I actually don't. 😅 When I see spoilers beyond where I am, I stop reading immediately and purge it from my mind.

I am about to hop on for a few more hours tonight. Make some more progress. It is definitely an interesting experience for me. A mix of high peaks and some disappointment/frustration. I am, so far, glad to be doing this and look forward to what I will uncover. I also am excited to discuss it with everyone. So, hopefully in a few days we'll have a more substantive chat!

[Krystal]

Escrito originalmente por Weltall8000:

deathsia, Xengre's post was civil and reasoned. While they clearly disagreed with you, it did not come off to this observer as mean-spirited or insulting. They question your position and give an explanation and evidence to support their disagreement with your position.

Your reply was rather hostile and not conducive for further discussion on the subject. Maybe you could stick to the points/arguments and we could have a more meaningful back and forth. Maybe you, Xengre, or someone else, could learn something or see some aspect in a new light from this?

P. Quincy T., I actually don't. 😅 When I see spoilers beyond where I am, I stop reading immediately and purge it from my mind.

I am about to hop on for a few more hours tonight. Make some more progress. It is definitely an interesting experience for me. A mix of high peaks and some disappointment/frustration. I am, so far, glad to be doing this and look forward to what I will uncover. I also am excited to discuss it with everyone. So, hopefully in a few days we'll have a more substantive chat!

If it wasn't intended to come across that way then i apologize but I've seen one too many replies to past threads of mine where their intent was to try and sound like they were being civil but in reality, attack me in such a subtle fashion that(just like in this case) it looks like i'm overreacting to nothing. I'll know whether or not this was the case based on their reply to my post if they do reply.

[Idbuddy]

Is 7RE perfect? No plenty of issues from the loading duck walks and sideways shimmies to side quests that largely weren't interesting but what FF game or RPG has the most gripping side quest at the beginning? And that's something to take into consideration, despite this being a roughly 35-50 hr game it is in essence a tutorial game. Combine it with Intergrade and you can see the foundation they set up, the characters who will have more meaningful side quests and impact on the story and actively making hidden characters like Yuffie decidedly more involved with the story instead of just existing, and it makes me excited to see how Vincent plays into the story.

Despite your best efforts I do think some rose tint is in your vision but there is nothing wrong with that. But I will say on the subject of subtlety Cloud really wasn't subtle when he was having his headache issues and the characters DID take notice it was a decent point of interest in Midgar that was dropped almost as fast as it was brought up. I would say his characterization makes way more sense when you consider all that leads up to the northern crater. Which I would point out OG's over subtle storytelling on certain points did, and still does create people who get to northern crater and say that whole thing is a plot hole that makes no sense. Both have positives and negatives but one has it's full story told while the other only has the tutorial section released.

[Weltall8000]

I think it a little unfair to give FFVII Remake a pass for "being essentially a tutorial." It has a game length into the 30+ hour ballpark. For SE to cut up the story and make the first 4-6 hours of OG into a release with that kind of run time and expansion, it needs to do better than just be the introduction. And I do think the developers did try to do that.

It has some shortcomings and it needs to be held to them for being a game in its own right. If it is just a tutorial and part of a game, therefore, it cannot be held to reasonable standards...then the play time and price are not justified.

That said, I am at the point of doing the last bit of side quests before infiltrating Shinra tower, and I have an overall favorable opinion of the game so far.

I agree with your second paragraph on Cloud and his development and some people's reception of it.

[Idbuddy]

Escrito originalmente por Weltall8000:

I think it a little unfair to give FFVII Remake a pass for "being essentially a tutorial." It has a game length into the 30+ hour ballpark. For SE to cut up the story and make the first 4-6 hours of OG into a release with that kind of run time and expansion, it needs to do better than just be the introduction. And I do think the developers did try to do that.

It has some shortcomings and it needs to be held to them for being a game in its own right. If it is just a tutorial and part of a game, therefore, it cannot be held to reasonable standards...then the play time and price are not justified.

That said, I am at the point of doing the last bit of side quests before infiltrating Shinra tower, and I have an overall favorable opinion of the game so far.

I wouldn't say I am giving it a pass but looking at it through a bigger picture mindset. Kinda like how you can look at a trilogy of movies as individual films and also as an overarching story. So look at the scene with Barrett and what happens going to/during shinra tower as a foundation for some unique character features that will be expanded upon on the 2nd game. So yes they did try to make it more than just a tutorial game but that aspect of the game and story is still there.

On that note I WILL say what I have found to be a common thread for people who hate remake with a passion but love OG is the fact that it's taking all of the expanded lore and putting it together as one coherent piece. I.e. Leslie from "The Kids Are Alright" novel would change that particular segment of the game if he was there and it does make sense on how it changed. But that also means lesser liked content like Dirge and Advent Children are being used as well and people don't want that even if the end result is ultimately a better story and game. This also manifests with 5% of the game having some drastic changes whereas 95% is fairly faithful to OG but that 5% is something people who had a problem with the above can't get over.

[Xengre]

Escrito originalmente por Weltall8000:

deathsia, Xengre's post was civil and reasoned. While they clearly disagreed with you, it did not come off to this observer as mean-spirited or insulting. They question your position and give an explanation and evidence to support their disagreement with your position.

Your reply was rather hostile and not conducive for further discussion on the subject. Maybe you could stick to the points/arguments and we could have a more meaningful back and forth. Maybe you, Xengre, or someone else, could learn something or see some aspect in a new light from this?

Thank you.

Escrito originalmente por deathsia:

Okay, there's not agreeing with me and then there's indirectly more or less saying: You're full of ♥♥♥♥, FF7 Remake is god-tier and has no flaws at all." And before you deny it, let me point out where you not-so-subtly did this by highlighting the parts in my quote box with bold.

You like remake, fine, I won't argue that, its a good game but don't sit there and subtly say in something damn near as a "passive aggressive" tone that I don't know what I'm talking about and damn near white knight remake as some "Masterpiece" when it has MANY FLAWS.

Hell, OG FF7 has MANY FLAWS, vague story writing at times, plot pacing, and in some cases, lack of character development(looking at you, Vincent)

EDIT: Oh and about your clip, yes, that is "Cloud gone utter nutcase" but in that scene we have no idea if Sehpiroth is controlling him, making him beat her or he mentally lost it post sephiroth control and had a violent freakout.

DOUBLE EDIT: Also, as i would like to point out, this violent freakout didn't happen until late into disk 1, yes, cloud got progressively more violent and unstable as the game progressed into disk 2 but Remake doesn't focus on that and in disk 1 where Remake is focused, all we knew of cloud was "something was off" based on the static sound effects, the flashing, and his sudden confident demeanor afterward. It almost felt as if something in his head was "backfiring" hense the static/ringing sounds and him grabbing his head and the flash of light was Jenova cells/his fragile mental state "fixing itself" before he "broke down" in a very sudden nature.

I don't think the Remake is perfect, and while the original Final Fantasy VII is (for now, we shall see how entire remake works out) my favorite game I don't believe it is perfect. I disagree with your points and pointed out why. I'm very clear when discussing points and pointing out issues I disagree on, including inconsistent logic or contradictions, however its still just a good-natured discussion. I definitely don't agree with your post and think your take is a bit questionable but I don't think you're just lying for the sake of lying like some people do or intentionally trying to create fake drama like we do sometimes see in this thread. I often don't agree with people P. Quincy but don't think they're an idiot just because I think they're wrong or I disagree. Don't let every random troll online get you on edge.

In the video we actually do know Sephiroth is controlling Cloud at that point. However, it is as you said at the end of disc 1. In the original game Sephiroth wasn't actively engaging with Cloud so early, or actually at all until this point in fact. In the Remake he does so earlier and the reunion thing is made more vivid (arguably a bit of artistic liberty here to drive home Cloud's mental state and the whole reunion thing, and it does feel a tad over the top especially Tifa's neighbor scene). Granted this is a sequel and things are subtly occurring differently than the original. I suppose this approach might be least well received by brand new players who aren't familiar with the FF7 universe, perhaps.

Escrito originalmente por Weltall8000:

I think what I liked overall better about OG vs Remake is that OG struck a better balance of narrative dump and "here's a game for you to play." I will exclude the world map, which I enjoyed, because at this point in the story, OG didn't open that up to the player yet. But I would be remiss if I didn't point out that OG Midgar was 4-6 hours on a first playthrough vs, what I imagine to be closer to 40 here. So, six hour of linear vs 30-40 is a big difference, and OG had the promise of getting there in its game. Remake 1 does not. But probably my biggest issue with this game is the pacing. It just feels like a drag between interesting plot points unless we're doing something compelling with the principle characters. The quests, were pretty simple mechanically, and did not add much to the characters IMO, beyond showing us that, "yeah, Midgar is lived in." Virtually all the new quests did nothing to endear me to Midgar or its denizens. Like, I don't care at all about Leaf House or Tifa's landlady, etc. A couple fetch/kill X quests didn't/wouldn't have changed that. And the time with Tifa and Aerith during them didn't feel unique or well utilized.

Pacing seems to be the biggest complaint I see from most, too, aside from some people not liking the ending either due to not understanding it (almost literally at all) or because they feel it deviates too much (I wont comment here too much cause you haven't done it yet). It's kind of like Trails in the Sky which is often a very slow paced 3 episode game. Then there is Metal Gear Solid or Xenosaga which are notorious for their pacing with a very heavy emphasis on lengthy cutscenes and story dump sections. They even tried to rectify that to strike a better balance with MGSV (interestingly, most fans actually seemed to miss the original design and loved the tutorial's old style approach lol). Xenosaga is a case where it takes this to such an extreme it simply isn't for your typical gamer, with the games ranging from 15-30 hours of cutscenes (yup, you read that right) and a total of 3 games each doing this for one super mega story (Lord of the Rings feels short by comparison lol).

I also definitely took issue with the side quests. I see a lot of complaints about this game being padded with side quests, but in reality unless they're just playing somehow hyper inefficiently those quests make up an extremely small portion of the game as there aren't that many (maybe a whooping 5-10% of your total playtime, really, as they're super short too). However, as you point out they're overly simple and literal feeler with no real meaningful design to them in order to endear you to anyone in the game, really, nor expand on the lore in almost any way. The thief side quest arc and the side quest to help the old guy by the shop (in Aerith's town) try to do this a bit but honestly don't make much of a meaningful splash and the rest largely just don't even try. Its something I'd love to see improved in the next two episodes.

One thing that really bummed me was Midgar was still linear and didn't do much more. I'd hoped they would have filled in more events with the turks, more side story elements (like Jessie / Wedge / Biggs and her parents segment or Aerith saving Marlene) but they didn't do much with it. Even though the original game's Midgar was linear doesn't mean episode 1 had to be as well, but it ultimately was linear because of technological limitations of PS4 and UE4 (something they're confirmed fixing in episode 2 thankfully) but I still would have liked to see more other stuff even if it was linear as mentioned. I'd have also like to see more sub events with the main cast like Aerith or Barrett. A missed opportunity I hope they improve on in episode 2. It would also be a shame if they don't thoroughly flesh out and utilize characters like Rufus or the Turks that didn't really have all that much going on in the original. Whether they improve the pacing issue or not in episode 2 with it being next-gen only and possibly also on UE5 though is hard to say. Larger environments all but guarantee more sheer gameplay vs story in terms of pacing but it doesn't mean it will be quality gameplay similar to the side quest issue here. Here's to hoping.

[Weltall8000]

Kinda long. Kinda rambling. A lot of stream of consciousness. (And I still haven't finished the game yet!) Don't feel like you have to respond point by point (or even at all!) if you don't feel like it, haha. I do appreciate what thoughtful things you have to say on the topic either way.

I liked Xenosaga, but yeah, wrapping up a 20 minute cut scene with a "Would you like to save your game?" Then immediately going onto another 20 minute cut scene was...something I hadn't experienced up until that game. I think I clocked it in at about an hour of straight cut scenes after the initial section of Episode 1 alone. But, I managed to still like those games. I think it just worked better for that one than here. It could have been because of the scale of what was going on, fleets of ships and aliens engaging, intrigue, weird time stuff. In FFVII Remake, I liked the Shinra scenes where we see what the higher ups are doing and I loved how Remake recontextualized some of the events, to indicate how Shinra was playing Avalanche much more than what did/seemed to be the case, the first time around in OG.

I know this isn't all about your examples like Xenosaga and Metal Gear, but, a difference between Xenosaga and Remake's cut scenes seems to be the focus on plot vs characters. Xenosaga, to me, felt like it was telling more plot with characters playing it out. VII Remake, a lot of its movie and playable cut scenes, were showing us the cast, and not as much plot proportionately. And after several hours, it got a little repetitive, when they weren't (and probably couldn't) do a whole lot more to grow the relationships with them. OG VII, it felt like Cloud's duo time with Aeris after the second mako reactor mission did enough to say "hey, this girl is interesting and Cloud is making a connection" without wearing out its welcome. Whereas in Remake, it didn't leave much to the imagination and detracted from her mystique. In discussing this and writing this out, I think I'm realizing that may be one of my big disconnects with this iteration of VII, I am a bit more of a plot person usually. I like to have compelling characters, and dynamic ones can really drive a story, but a lot of the slice of life stuff isn't my cup of tea. Not that it is bad, or even wholly unnecessary, I guess it is more a matter of how much each weights the scales and where my balance is at.

Mix that in with the linearity that they lifted straight from OG's Midgar section, and we have a stifling skeleton here.

And I say all this, while still thinking it isn't all bad. I don't know that this will have the kind of replayability that OG had for me, but unquestionably (unless it nosedives after revisiting Corneo's mansion and getting to the end of the game) it was worth at least one playthrough.

Which, as an aside, I think you're underselling the time the sidequests take, either that or I'm just waaaay slow. I play a couple hours a night and each time I got to an "open chapter" where they have official side quests, it took me one of my nightly sessions to finish it. I have played it 9 nights and 3 of those were largely/completely devoted to doing the sidequests. Tonight was one such night for me (this time, Chapter 14). I legit think, so, far, a full quarter of my playtime has been doing sidequests.

I agree that more "on topic side events" like Turks or what they did with the other Avalanche members would have been a more appealing use of real estate. It felt a little bit like an ass pull for the side mission that took us to Jesse's neighborhood, shoehorning it in that particular time frame, but, whatever, it was a fun mission, that enhanced the experience.

I know open world can be polarizing or not done well, but, I would love to see a fully realized open world FFVII. Though, stylistically, that would be so drastically different from OG's prerendered backgrounds and tailored locales. The stifling kind of linearity needs to die with this entry IMO.

Also, materia should be better lol

The source material and how, I feel like, they are giving this a serious good faith attempt at this to do a good job, is definitely enough to keep me on board for episode 2. I have high hopes for it and that they will have learned many valuable lessons about what worked and what didn't from this one. This game does have some of the FFVII soul in it and I want this trilogy to fully capture it as it moves forward.

[Tr0w]

@OP FF X and 13 had the same issue, as will 16. They got rid of the overworld and went with corridors. Same reason Tails games after Vesperia have felt lacking. FF15 being open world was one of the reasons i really liked that game as it brought that sense of exploration back to the franchise.

[Idbuddy]

Escrito originalmente por P. Quincy T.:

@ OP, I recommend watching Big Dan Gaming's YT video titled "FF7 Remake's Story is Hot Garbage...Here's Why." (Not the most polite of titles.) It goes over basically everything that has been said ad nauseum on this forum, but with visuals. Probably the part most worth watching, since it's quite long, is the last part on the final couple chapters. The video also fairly points out things the game did well overall, like the combat and some of the early additions to the story like Jessie's side plot.

He explains how in the final chapter Aerith basically becomes a mouthpiece for the developers expressing their desire to change the original story rather than her own character with her own motivations as we know her. He talks about plot holes like the absurdity of Avalanche now being retconned to have an "HQ" with "helicopters."

Honestly that guys takes are stuck in nostalgia and could use a refresher on og. Just as example He talks about Rufus showing up early when there was no indication how he knew the President was dead in OG. If you want to use plausibility(and a bit of expanded lore) the same things that could have tipped him off that his dad was dead could have been the same that tipped him off to come back early in Remake. Same thing with the helicopter bit it was expressly stated that Avalanche HQ wasn't supporting Barrett's cell as they were considered too extreme and it's not until the events at Shinra tower that they get their support. I'm not gonna go point by point but a good portion of what he says early has already been clarified so it doesn't hold up as well as a whole. And that's ignoring the fact that he makes some blatant misrepresentations and ignores logic flow on more than a few things to make the story seem worse than what it is.

Fact is FF7R is 95% the section of Midgar with expansions drawing from all the expanded lore to make a more coherent story and uses that expanded lore to facilitate logical changes and expansions to the story i.e. Yuffie. So there is no reason to believe the same won't be true for part 2 where best guess is it will end at Northern Crater so chances are it will be a much longer game.