No random battles and level caps.

[Door Into Summer]

How are we suppose to access battles on maps that do not have the option to train? The level cap bugs me the most. I have played enough to not rely on over leveling but I would at least like the option to if I wanted.

[Mimi]

Originally posted by DVerde:

Originally posted by sivartnosredna7:

Honestly, the lack of random battles killed all desire I had to continue playing this game. I get that they don't want us over-leveling, but it feels like I'm forced to advance the story to get any enjoyment out of this game, but that's the very thing I DON'T like. I wanted to like this game, because I loved Final Fantasy Tactics. But it just feels...artificial. Like the entire world is waiting on me to rush on to the end. It feels excessively linear in that there's almost nothing to do other than advance the game, or boringly fight the same pre-set battles over and over again to make myself stronger. I don't ever feel like I am exploring or forced to adapt new tactics to an enemy composition I didn't expect. Without the ability to get money or loot from random battles, I feel as though the potential 100 unit cap is a pipe-dream. I should only ever invest in a very small group of fighters and rush to the end of the story, since I'll never have enough money to outfit the army I was promised I could have. The game just seems so very limiting, and not in a way I could ever enjoy.

That's...pretty much every tactics game in a nutshell? The original TO was linear to a T, until Palace of the Dead opened up in Chapter 4. FFT was, likewise, linear, as far as I remember? I certainly don't remember there being alternate paths to the end. Even the old Fire Emblems were linear, short of unlocking the extra true ending battles.

At least in this version you open up Phoramapa mid chapter 2, for all your money needs, and there is Pirate's Graveyard in addition to the old palace in Chapter 4.

I don't see how grinding is considered "non-linear".

the context of linear here is, in a tactics game where you play 1 story mission after another, whether or not the story branches. non-linear are the tactics games with a world map that lets you do side quests or random encounters between story missions, as much as you want. FFT was non-linear in this regard, and so was the older TO from the sounds of it

[Pickleton]

You feel like you're being forced to progress with the game instead of fighting on the same random encounter map over and over ... and also complain that you aren't learning new tactics?

I don't get it. Isn't power leveling by doing the same map over and over again the antithesis of learning new tactics?

If power leveling is your bag, maybe play a Disgaea game?

[Auntie Hong Ying's Tasty Beans]

Originally posted by Mimi:

Originally posted by DVerde:

That's...pretty much every tactics game in a nutshell? The original TO was linear to a T, until Palace of the Dead opened up in Chapter 4. FFT was, likewise, linear, as far as I remember? I certainly don't remember there being alternate paths to the end. Even the old Fire Emblems were linear, short of unlocking the extra true ending battles.

At least in this version you open up Phoramapa mid chapter 2, for all your money needs, and there is Pirate's Graveyard in addition to the old palace in Chapter 4.

I don't see how grinding is considered "non-linear".

the context of linear here is, in a tactics game where you play 1 story mission after another, whether or not the story branches. non-linear are the tactics games with a world map that lets you do side quests or random encounters between story missions, as much as you want. FFT was non-linear in this regard, and so was the older TO from the sounds of it

So non-linear means getting in to completely random encounters while walking to the next objective? The original TO was so linear it hurt, compared to Reborn.

[Pickleton]

Random battles only have a handful of enemy configurations per map and are plot irrelevant. Calling their inclusion non-linear is a laugh. FF13 has random encounters, and people call it a hallway simulator.

The only things non-linear about FFT are the handful of side quests (which TO has infinitely more of) and a handful of text choices which don't actually have an impact on the story 9/10 times. Tactics Ogre has branching routes where story choices impact available characters and Chaos Frame. Heck, I don't think FFT had a single castle where you chose what side to assault it from and got a different fight.

[Melodia]

Originally posted by Pickleton:

FF13 has random encounters, and people call it a hallway simulator.

FF13 doesn't have random encounters.

[Pickleton]

Originally posted by Melodia:

Originally posted by Pickleton:

FF13 has random encounters, and people call it a hallway simulator.

FF13 doesn't have random encounters.

Yes it does. Just because you can see the monsters on the map and avoid fights doesn't mean they're not random. The enemies can spawn in random spots within a set range, and the enemy composition has variance.
You can retreat from random battles in TO, so does that mean they're not random battles? Are the fights in 7th Saga or Breath of Fire random? Not sure what your criteria is.

[This PC]

Originally posted by Mimi:

the context of linear here is, in a tactics game where you play 1 story mission after another, whether or not the story branches. non-linear are the tactics games with a world map that lets you do side quests or random encounters between story missions, as much as you want. FFT was non-linear in this regard, and so was the older TO from the sounds of it

There's more sidequests than in FFT, there's 3 branching story paths, and you can grind as much as you want in phorampa, and later in other places, for gear and money (Not that I ever needed to, am halfway through chap 4, all my gear is +1, and my whole team is decked out max I can without grinding phorampa). So not getting stopped 64 times by random battles that last 20 minutes while walking from point A to B is your definition of linear ? x: I clearly remember saving before doing movement on OG TO map and reloading if I hit a random battle lol. Is "annoying" your definition of non-linear ? :P

I don't get your point. This is one of the least linear tactics games I know of. If your definition of non-linear is having the opportunity and feeling the necessity to do a large amount of soulsucking grind to achieve the same results you achieve here with 4 hours of grind, I think your definition of linear vs non-linear is flawed.

[Melodia]

Originally posted by Pickleton:

Yes it does. Just because you can see the monsters on the map and avoid fights doesn't mean they're not random. You can retreat from random battles in TO, so does that mean they're not random battles? Are the fights in 7th Saga or Breath of Fire random? Not sure what your criteria is.

Uh, first off, how in the WORLD would being able to run from battle determine if they are random or not?

But while I don't remember BoF, 7th Saga I see why you bring up, in that you can see battles in a radar -- but they are still randomly generated there. There's a big difference between it and FF13 there -- every battle in 13 is specifically placed in a certain spot with the same set of enemies every time. i.E. no more random than a treasure chest.

[Pickleton]

Forgiveness for the mockery and paraphrasing, but this sounds like
"Choose your own adventure books are more linear than regular books because they don't make you read the last 5 pages of each previous chapter before you can go to the next segment."

[Pickleton]

Originally posted by Melodia:

Originally posted by Pickleton:

Yes it does. Just because you can see the monsters on the map and avoid fights doesn't mean they're not random. You can retreat from random battles in TO, so does that mean they're not random battles? Are the fights in 7th Saga or Breath of Fire random? Not sure what your criteria is.

Uh, first off, how in the WORLD would being able to run from battle determine if they are random or not?

But while I don't remember BoF, 7th Saga I see why you bring up, in that you can see battles in a radar -- but they are still randomly generated there. There's a big difference between it and FF13 there -- every battle in 13 is specifically placed in a certain spot with the same set of enemies every time. i.E. no more random than a treasure chest.

Because it's not running, it triggers the battle being accessible and you can choose not to do it. It doesn't count as a retreat to do so. If you have full control over whether or not to take part in a battle, is it random?

Anyway, the reason I brought up BoF is because it 1) had a meter that showed you approximately how long until your next random battle, so you could path a bit swap rooms or w/e to reset it, 2) there was an item that completely disabled random encounters for a period (and not just reduced chances like a Pokemon Repel).

Think of it this way: which of these games is the least linear and why?
Radiant Historia
Chrono Trigger
Tales of Symphonia
The Legend of Zelda 2
Final Fantasy 4
The first 4 of these selections have monsters that appear on the map that you can dodge to never fight a "random encounter".

---

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.
More importantly, if random encounters have zero story involvement, how does that make the story non-linear?
If I'm reading a Harry Potter book and stop every chapter to make a sandwich and go to the bathroom, that doesn't make the book "less linear" than a Goosebumps Choose-Your-Own-Adventure book.

[Kaluth]

Originally posted by Pickleton:

If power leveling is your bag, maybe play a Disgaea game?

Disgaea 6 was total ♥♥♥♥, I wish the money they poured into making those 3d models went towards the game itself. 5 gameplay wise was perfect.

[Melodia]

Originally posted by Pickleton:

Think of it this way: which of these games is the least linear and why?
Radiant Historia
Chrono Trigger
Tales of Symphonia
The Legend of Zelda 2
Final Fantasy 4
The first 4 of these selections have monsters that appear on the map that you can dodge to never fight a "random encounter".
.

I for one never said anything about linearity, only randomness. I agree that random battles don't make something less linear, that's just ridiculousness.