Tactics ogre - Lets us cling together ?

[Nobody Perfect, i'm Nobody]

How different this game with the "OG" game from PSX version?
I dont play the PSP version so just wanna know how much different is this game before i bought it, yeah i have hundred of hours playing that PSX version, thank you for yours kind answer

[Pickleton]

imho Reborn is a faithful remake of the OG version rather than a remake of the PSP remake. Like if I had to describe it, it's like the dev team took what they learned from making the PSP remake and then "took another crack at it" with Reborn.

I could go on for hours with a grand list of things I like and don't like, but I'll try to keep it very basic.

Things added:
- Post game (which was DLC in the PSP version) which spans 4 short but difficult chapters called "CODA"
- WORLD system: After finishing Chapter 4, you unlock the ability to go back to certain checkpoints in the story to make different decisions or whatever. Yes, this will allow you to recruit all recruitables from all routes.
- 100 slots in your army (though I doubt anyone really uses all of it)
- All classes have skills that you can equip that give some kind of unique benefit. Example: a Warrior can equip a skill where at the beginning of their turn, they and all nearby allies get a guaranteed hit on their next melee attack. Enemy can't dodge or parry and any on-hit effects of their weapon is guaranteed. This was a major overhaul in the PSP version, but it was WAY trimmed down for Reborn in a way I find quite elegant.
- A few new unique characters, and a couple new classes. Won't say characters because spoilers, but classes are Necromancer and Songstress.
- Ninjas and Swordmasters got their own subset of spells: Ninjutsu and War Dances. Ninjutsu comprised of some basic damage skills and status debuffs, and War Dances being mostly just area of effect buffs/debuffs (but not as broken as Haborym with Petrify).
- Hell Gate (now called Palace of the Dead) was massively overhauled so that it's not just a square battlefield where you rock-em-sock-em-robots.
- Crafting system added which allows you to take drops from enemies or just things you buy at the store to upgrade equipment. Effects of crafting can be stats, multipliers or things like "chance to poison on hit".
- Full voice acting in English and Japanese. Full orchestral remastered music. Visual update. Etc.

Things removed:
- Can't equip everything on anyone. No more leveling a Wizard as a physical class, then putting him in full plate armor and casting "2-handed sword slash". Classes are generally categorized into light, medium and heavy armor types, with weapons constrained to what (mostly) would make sense for the class.
- Can't sidestep the soft level cap by abusing training mode. There is a hard cap on levels that increases as you progress through the story.
- Elemental damage spells were made uniform, so it's mostly just "what flavor of jello". Pretty much all status effect spells were moved to Light/Dark/Draconic lists or the aforementioned Ninjutsu/War Dances/Songs/Necromancy spell lists.
- The addition of WORLD does kind of make the decisions you make in the story feel like they have less weight, but that's probably just be a "me" problem.
- A lot of the rare equipment has been moved over to the crafting system, which means that the rewards in most battles tend to be overall "meh" except for status ups.

[Nobody Perfect, i'm Nobody]

Originally posted by Pickleton:

imho Reborn is a faithful remake of the OG version rather than a remake of the PSP remake. Like if I had to describe it, it's like the dev team took what they learned from making the PSP remake and then "took another crack at it" with Reborn.

I could go on for hours with a grand list of things I like and don't like, but I'll try to keep it very basic.

Things added:
- Post game (which was DLC in the PSP version) which spans 4 short but difficult chapters called "CODA"
- WORLD system: After finishing Chapter 4, you unlock the ability to go back to certain checkpoints in the story to make different decisions or whatever. Yes, this will allow you to recruit all recruitables from all routes.
- 100 slots in your army (though I doubt anyone really uses all of it)
- All classes have skills that you can equip that give some kind of unique benefit. Example: a Warrior can equip a skill where at the beginning of their turn, they and all nearby allies get a guaranteed hit on their next melee attack. Enemy can't dodge or parry and any on-hit effects of their weapon is guaranteed. This was a major overhaul in the PSP version, but it was WAY trimmed down for Reborn in a way I find quite elegant.
- A few new unique characters, and a couple new classes. Won't say characters because spoilers, but classes are Necromancer and Songstress.
- Ninjas and Swordmasters got their own subset of spells: Ninjutsu and War Dances. Ninjutsu comprised of some basic damage skills and status debuffs, and War Dances being mostly just area of effect buffs/debuffs (but not as broken as Haborym with Petrify).
- Hell Gate (now called Palace of the Dead) was massively overhauled so that it's not just a square battlefield where you rock-em-sock-em-robots.
- Crafting system added which allows you to take drops from enemies or just things you buy at the store to upgrade equipment. Effects of crafting can be stats, multipliers or things like "chance to poison on hit".
- Full voice acting in English and Japanese. Full orchestral remastered music. Visual update. Etc.

Things removed:
- Can't equip everything on anyone. No more leveling a Wizard as a physical class, then putting him in full plate armor and casting "2-handed sword slash". Classes are generally categorized into light, medium and heavy armor types, with weapons constrained to what (mostly) would make sense for the class.
- Can't sidestep the soft level cap by abusing training mode. There is a hard cap on levels that increases as you progress through the story.
- Elemental damage spells were made uniform, so it's mostly just "what flavor of jello". Pretty much all status effect spells were moved to Light/Dark/Draconic lists or the aforementioned Ninjutsu/War Dances/Songs/Necromancy spell lists.
- The addition of WORLD does kind of make the decisions you make in the story feel like they have less weight, but that's probably just be a "me" problem.
- A lot of the rare equipment has been moved over to the crafting system, which means that the rewards in most battles tend to be overall "meh" except for status ups.

Damn, you fully "exposed" all of this game i think, but that is the one i wanna know about this game, thank you, i really love the "OG" ones, still playing it through my phone till right now, i really love the "basic" of the game play, and "tweak" some more from beginning through certain "codes". Thank you once again, maybe i would pick this game on my whitelist first until i certain to bought it, i do love some other PSX games remake, but after FF7 remake, i have a odd feeling playing other remake

[Pickleton]

That's fair.
There are cheat engine tables out there for several shenanigans, such as disabling the level cap or adding items/stats if that's your cup of tea.
Game also goes on 50% sale somewhat frequently, so there's also that.
Someone made a video comparing all of the versions if you wanted to check that out, but I think there's probably a few spoilers mixed in there with the added characters and post-game stuff, so "viewer beware".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DmOktoA3eQ

Oh and one thing that was changed that I really miss is the PS1 version's death sounds.
The male death sound "OOAH!" was the greatest.

[MrPibbs]

Originally posted by Pickleton:

imho Reborn is a faithful remake of the OG version rather than a remake of the PSP remake. Like if I had to describe it, it's like the dev team took what they learned from making the PSP remake and then "took another crack at it" with Reborn.

I could go on for hours with a grand list of things I like and don't like, but I'll try to keep it very basic.

Things added:
- Post game (which was DLC in the PSP version) which spans 4 short but difficult chapters called "CODA"
- WORLD system: After finishing Chapter 4, you unlock the ability to go back to certain checkpoints in the story to make different decisions or whatever. Yes, this will allow you to recruit all recruitables from all routes.
- 100 slots in your army (though I doubt anyone really uses all of it)
- All classes have skills that you can equip that give some kind of unique benefit. Example: a Warrior can equip a skill where at the beginning of their turn, they and all nearby allies get a guaranteed hit on their next melee attack. Enemy can't dodge or parry and any on-hit effects of their weapon is guaranteed. This was a major overhaul in the PSP version, but it was WAY trimmed down for Reborn in a way I find quite elegant.
- A few new unique characters, and a couple new classes. Won't say characters because spoilers, but classes are Necromancer and Songstress.
- Ninjas and Swordmasters got their own subset of spells: Ninjutsu and War Dances. Ninjutsu comprised of some basic damage skills and status debuffs, and War Dances being mostly just area of effect buffs/debuffs (but not as broken as Haborym with Petrify).
- Hell Gate (now called Palace of the Dead) was massively overhauled so that it's not just a square battlefield where you rock-em-sock-em-robots.
- Crafting system added which allows you to take drops from enemies or just things you buy at the store to upgrade equipment. Effects of crafting can be stats, multipliers or things like "chance to poison on hit".
- Full voice acting in English and Japanese. Full orchestral remastered music. Visual update. Etc.

Things removed:
- Can't equip everything on anyone. No more leveling a Wizard as a physical class, then putting him in full plate armor and casting "2-handed sword slash". Classes are generally categorized into light, medium and heavy armor types, with weapons constrained to what (mostly) would make sense for the class.
- Can't sidestep the soft level cap by abusing training mode. There is a hard cap on levels that increases as you progress through the story.
- Elemental damage spells were made uniform, so it's mostly just "what flavor of jello". Pretty much all status effect spells were moved to Light/Dark/Draconic lists or the aforementioned Ninjutsu/War Dances/Songs/Necromancy spell lists.
- The addition of WORLD does kind of make the decisions you make in the story feel like they have less weight, but that's probably just be a "me" problem.
- A lot of the rare equipment has been moved over to the crafting system, which means that the rewards in most battles tend to be overall "meh" except for status ups.

The game is based on the PSP version and is vastly closer to it than the original. Not only is that obvious aesthetically and mechanically, it's even the second sentence of the store description. Hell, almost everything in your things added list are actually things added in the PSP version, not Reborn.

But anyway, I for one would really enjoy you compiling a list of the things you specifically DON'T like about Reborn. Because my god, it still seems like it would cause you physical pain to disparage Reborn in any way shape or form.

[Second Duke Revier]

It's a very different game. It's very skill driven, with a lot more "RPGisms" about, such as weapon proficiency, stat buff/debuffs, specific physical damage types etc. The only things really alike are the basic building blocks, like movement, character based turns, and basic attacks. The story is also largely the same, aside from some minor narrative additions and some post game stuff.

[Pickleton]

Homie I said "it's like", not "it is the case that".
Is it a medical condition to make all online interactions in bad faith?
Or is it just some kind of personal vendetta?
Regardless, maybe you should sit down and have a cup of tea.

The guy was literally asking for differences between the PSX version and Reborn, and specifically said that he hasn't played the PSP version. And as I said in my initial response to his question and in many other similar threads: it's like they went back to basics using what they learned from the PSP remake, rather than taking the PSP version with all of its bloat and adding even more to it.
If you'll notice, a lot of the changes between the PSP version and Reborn brought the game closer to the OG experience, kind of like how the FF Pixel games cut out stuff from later versions of each game to bring a "curated" or "definitive" experience.
The magic number of "4" for items/skills/magic didn't just pop out of nowhere. You had 4 equipment slots (including consumables), and 4 magic slots (including the Hell Gate learnables) in OG. Units had their own levels and what class they were at the time of leveling gave them different stat growths. Equipment didn't have level requirements. Characters had their own elements. There are a lot of very fundamental gameplay changes that were "changed" in Reborn that were more like "reverted".

Anyways, for things I don't like about Reborn:
- Accuracy too high.
- Stat growths could bear to be a bit more pronounced between classes. 10% difference is absolutely nothing when you consider in OG you'd be looking at a 7STR/4INT leveling as a Beast Tamer vs 4STR/8INT leveling as a Wizard. Would make characters feel like they have a specialized role.
- I wish enemy/player AI would use debuffs.
- I can understand getting rid of the "-proof" skills and equipment, but it would have been nice to keep "Resist" skills for more than Charm/Petrify, when the amount of enemies who can even use those debuffs are quite limited.
- Magic damage is very inconsistent. Whenever you get a magic tier upgrade, it's really powerful for a short while but just a countdown until you're doing poor damage again. At least until you get to post game where summons are the new artillery that archers were in PSP.
- Can't recruit monsters or demihumans at the store.
- Neutral route is still garbage compared to the other two. Law and Chaos got extra characters/sidequests but Neutral still untouched.
- You get access to relics at about the same time as you get the final crafting books, and the relics are pretty much always better.
- On a similar note, once you start getting flight/warp rings/boots, you pretty much are locked into those. Either wing/warp ring and relic pants, or wing/warp boots and weapon necklace.
- I feel like the Recruit skills should be "transferable" or "permanently learnable" like they were in PSP. It is annoying in the early game to recruit a lizardman, for example, when the only class that can do it is a Wizard, and lizardmen for the most part are Warriors/Berserkers who will obliterate the Wizard if the recruit fails.

So there. That's my list. Now I'm curious about yours. What do you like about Reborn? Or did you subscribe to this discussion board of a game you hate just to tell people over and over again how much you hate it and how SE/Matsuno have personally wronged you for making changes to their own game? Or just to sling insults at people who do like it? Because of course not, that would be silly, right?

Update: 15 hours later and no answer. That's what I figured.

[Pickleton]

I subscribe to the discussion board because I like the game and would like to talk about it and help people with questions.
I don't subscribe to it complain about how it's inferior to the PSP incarnation or deride people for preferring this version to it.
Those are VERY different things. Don't even try to conflate the two.
Also lol you just called me autistic as an insult.

Edit: Well, apparently someone else thought the same, considering the post is now gone. Either that or he took it down himself.

[Jimmy MacReady]

I've been watching threads in this game for a small bit, just on the fence about buying this as im a little way into the PSP version.

[Sarissofoi]

Originally posted by Pickleton:

imho Reborn is a faithful remake of the OG version rather than a remake of the PSP remake.

Wrong.
Its weird mix of both. PSP version was really bloated and with FFT style skill system and items. Reborn is much more toned down but its not faithful version of OG at all.
Its dubbed version of PSP story with system trying to go back to roots but not very successful. OG had very little class skills(and nothing was customisable or transferable) , limited spells slots for magic and spell classes and gender divided classes. Like only males could be beast tamers of dragoons were only females could be Dragon Tamers or Valkyries, no mirror classes.
If you want to play something more to OG TO play Knight of Lodis prequel.
PSP version had a tons of customisable skills that you can move around between classes and a lot of proficiency to grind and level up. Its maximum grind. OG Snes/PSX is much simpler where only things you care are pretty much stats level ups from classe.

[valium]

At this point I have to question on whether or not pickleton actually played the PSP version, or the OG for that matter. He gets just about everything wrong, and it almost seems like he is just parroting what others has said about the older versions.

This was put in sharp contrast in a different thread where pickleton tries to argue the Reborn version is faster, which is just undeniably not true, he based that solely on a playthrough of someone else he found. Pickleton was also unaware about how prevalent one-shots were in the PSP version, which anybody who actually played the PSP version would know.

[Pickleton]

... that sure is an interpretation.
It's like you're a machine, and the sole purpose of your creation was to misrepresent me and make bad faith arguments.
But it's nice see somebody so dedicated to their craft. Something lacking in society today.

The person in that thread made the claim that he remembered playing through the game "normally" and 1-shotting everything all the way down PotD on his first run through. I replied by saying "unless you grinded the hell out of your skills, that's not how it went down".
Someone (might've been you. I'm not the type to reminisce before flushing so not going to bother checking) then posted the WR speedrun record of the PSP version, making the claim that the guy in the speedrun was 1-shotting everything in Hanging Gardens, which therefore-therefore proves beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the PSP version had faster battles than Reborn. Conveniently leaving out the fact that in story battles like Hanging Gardens, the enemies have fixed levels unless you're in WORLD mode (or meet the overlevel threshold). PotD, however, scales to your level regardless of if you're level 20 or level 50. Being lvl34 and 1-shotting enemies 10 levels below you with a squad of archers using Composite Bows is different from 1-shotting same-level enemies (including Dragons and stuff, btw) while still using Composite Bows. And yeah, being level 30+ when you beat the main story is not a "normal" playthrough with "no grinding" when the final boss is only lvl24.
So to prove my point, I picked up a random playthrough off YouTube to show that even a guy who had spent cumulatively tens of hours using barricades on Tynemouth Hill with a squad composed of pretty much entirely Archers to train skills STILL wasn't 1-shotting things past about floor 20 PotD, except for the odd crit on a caster. Maybe on a subsequent run of PotD when he was decked out in crafted gear and PotD drops, but not on a first run like the claim was making.
If you're talking about PotD subsequent runs, though, you can 1-shot everything in Reborn if you're running Shaman Gang with Nature's Touch and summons. And don't even get me started on the possibilities once Ogre Blade enters the arena. On top of that, Reborn has QoL features like fast forward, no load times, and abusing Scouting to make sure the unit with the item you want is there without having to quit to menu 29 times. It is way faster and easier to plow through PotD in Reborn. People just don't remember the slog in PSP because it was a long time ago and people look back on happy memories with fondness. Go back and try playing the PSP version now that you've tasted Reborn. The issues I bring up with the PSP version are things that I had issues with WHEN I WENT TO BACK TO REPLAY IT.

But nah, call the WR speedrun a "normal" playthrough and not "Tactics Archer: Let us not Distribute the EXP", and then characterize me saying "yeah speedrunners don't play games 'normally'" as being some kind of strange statement.

[valium]

That is a wall of text just to continue to be wrong. It isnt just archers that can one-shot, they are just the easiest. You dont need to grind to get the point where a lot of builds can easily one-shot most enemies. So, yes, on your first run through PotD in the PSP version, you can easily be one-shotting everything.

If you actually played the PSP version, you would know that.

[Pickleton]

And it just continues. The dedication to the craft is unreal.

I specifically said in my post that the reason why the speedrun was 1-shotting everything was because it had a 10-level advantage. aka "not a normal run as the claim in that thread was".

If you actually read my "wall of text", you would know that.

[Second Duke Revier]

Guess someone will just have to make videos attempting the POTD on their first run in the PSP version. That being said, I remember the forbidden summons and dragon magic being OP there, though ofc most of the dragon magic comes from within the POTD itself.

[Pickleton]

I know, right? If only there were several videos out there of people running through PotD in the PSP version.
But then again, the guy in the WR speedrun could one-shot enemies 10 levels below him in Hanging Gardens, so disregard any videos of other randos playing the game and not "one shotting everything in PotD".