Help need with learning skills

[Sephiroth]

So there is no place to see my characters levels with the classes he used.
For example if I leveled up 10 times with a knight and then 5 with a mage I have not seen anything anywhere to reflect this and show me 10 with knight 5 with mage.

If it does not show me because there are no class levels....then why are my characters getting different skills with different classes. Even same skills like magic regen + (level 1,2,3)
is not being gained by different classes at the same level. They gain them at different levels.

So here is the thing how do I figure out what to level to get the different skills I may want?
Also seems to be no place in this game that tells you what skills you get for each class.

For example: Knight Gaining HP+lvl3 at level 25. (Im making this up cause I don't know)
So if I wanted that I would not know how many levels another character has in knight in order to judge how many levels I need to go into this class to get it.


This is one of the problems with this game imo. This should be more clear cut like Final Fantasy Tactics. In FFT we could click on classes and see what they offered without spending all the time in them leveling them up.

[Sephiroth]

Should be a way of seeing how many levels you have in each class. Since its technically being used to decide if we earned skills in each class.

[Pickleton]

That's because skills are just what that class has access to. If you leveled a character as purely a knight from 1-50 and then changed them into a wizard, they would have the same skills as a character that was a wizard from 1-50.
The only difference would be a minor skew in stats, since stat growth will see at most a 10% difference in their respective stats. So the wizard leveled as a knight would have higher HP, STR, VIT but lower MP, INT, MIND. The difference is generally insignificant outside of HP/MP imho, though even that is more personal preference and playstyle than one being "better" than the other.

[Rucession]

Originally posted by Sephiroth:

So there is no place to see my characters levels with the classes he used.
For example if I leveled up 10 times with a knight and then 5 with a mage I have not seen anything anywhere to reflect this and show me 10 with knight 5 with mage.

If it does not show me because there are no class levels....then why are my characters getting different skills with different classes. Even same skills like magic regen + (level 1,2,3)
is not being gained by different classes at the same level. They gain them at different levels.

So here is the thing how do I figure out what to level to get the different skills I may want?
Also seems to be no place in this game that tells you what skills you get for each class.

For example: Knight Gaining HP+lvl3 at level 25. (Im making this up cause I don't know)
So if I wanted that I would not know how many levels another character has in knight in order to judge how many levels I need to go into this class to get it.


This is one of the problems with this game imo. This should be more clear cut like Final Fantasy Tactics. In FFT we could click on classes and see what they offered without spending all the time in them leveling them up.

You can view when each Class learns each Skill (and which Skills) here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tx1awbYAamyB39_hXFoXvimriNpzWmtxdfzLJxG-oiw/edit#gid=0

I'd recommend making a personal copy of the file (File->Make a copy) in order to gain full access to all data contained within its sheets. One such example would be drop-down lists that contain detailed information of each Skill's effects.

Originally posted by Pickleton:

So the wizard leveled as a knight would have higher HP, STR, VIT but lower MP, INT, MIND.

Funnily enough, the Knight actually has a higher MND Growth than the Wizard/Enchantress. The Wizard/Enchantress has the same MND Growth as the Warrior/Archer.

[Pickleton]

No wonder debuff caster accuracy falls off a cliff without concentration...

When I get to the post game, I level everyone as whatever class has the highest HP growth that race can access. Especially for my clerics. Being able to take 4 hits vs 4.2 hits before going down might not sound like much, but healing has crap scaling on stats so it's not like they lose out on effectiveness. PotD 2 winged clerics leveled as vartans with maxed hammers are such an improvement over fielding Donnalto who has cleric stat growth and no wings.

[Sephiroth]

Hey Pickelton and Russesion, thank you.

So simply changing classes means they will learn all that classes skills up to your level... what that is a really bad mechanic. Should have to be earned and built. May be not as hard core as FFT but should require some training fights at least. Seems to easy to switch a class and get all their skills. Also losing them when you go to another class is bad mechanic imo.

Is there a way to get a double cast like FFT or Fell Seal?
I notice there is a double attack for melee characters but did not see something similar for casters.

I want to make a powerful caster.

[Pickleton]

It's not really a "bad" mechanic, so much as just ... how it goes. This game is more of a strategy game than a straight RPG. If anything, FFT is very much an exception to the rule. Some people like it specifically because it gives you the freedom of dozens if not hundreds of different ways to make your characters unbelievably overpowered, but that's not what most strategy games are.

There's no double cast, but the summon spells available in the post-game hit multiple times.
The basic Wizard class learns a skill which makes RT cost of the next spell equal to zero, giving you a faster turn. That or using strats involving RT resets (Paradigm Shift, fairies, resurrection). This is about as close as you can get to a magic machine gun.

[Sephiroth]

Well it is a bad mechanic imo the game would definately have been even more fun if they did not dumb it down.
I learned in previous iterations of the same game it was better meaning characters had more skill slots (10) instead of (4) with which to equip things and also they learned skills with earned skill points like FFT did. Apparently they also had a way of transferring skills from other classes they learned with another class. (using a silver coin or something like that).

So based on that I guess I also disagree with "its not just how it goes"
this looks like a version where they took all that fun stuff out of the game.
Made it less customization which over all means less strategy as I can't make my characters as I could in the previous games with more skill slots etc.

This is what I hate about some remakes they sometimes miss the mark.

Still a fun game just not as good as the previous ones from what I can see (previous Tactics Ogre games).

---> Thanks again Pickleton for the info.

still fun game despite.

anyway
Well that wraps this up

[Pickleton]

The "10 skills" thing didn't work as you're probably imagining it, tbh.
A common complaint in this discussion board in the early days of release was "4 is less than 10, so game is gutted" but the way skills worked in PSP actually got LESS utility than you get in Reborn.
That argument died down as people realized how the skill system actually works.

For example, a Wizard in Reborn can run with:
Skill #1 Meditate
Skill #2 Engulf
Skill #3 Conserve RT (can get all 3 of these going on same turn, btw)
Skill #4 Cudgel/Dagger/Hammer or Concentration (damage/debuff-focused Wizard)
Class Passive - [element] Arts (counting x2 for element+dark)
Personal element - Augment [element]
Personal element - Attenuate [opposing element]
Offhand - Parry (Wizards couldn't equip this in PSP)
Body - Wade I
Gloves - Jump I
Boots - Swiftfoot I
- That would cost 12 out of 10 skill slots in the PSP version.