Exploring the Genre

[Bridgeburner]

Hey everyone,

So I absolutely SUCK at turn based games, but I still think they are fun. I am still making my way through BG3 and haven’t really tried a more focused game like Tactics Ogre.

Without dithering too long, this game seems like it’s full of turn based veterans - and I wanted to know if in your experience this is a good game for a newbie?

Also, is this game worth it at full price?

I have been juggling a few turn based games such as:

Jagged Alliance 3

Fell Seal

Marvel Midnight Suns

Wastelanders 3/ and 2

And finally, WarTales

If this game may not be a great fit for a newcomer, what would you recommend (even if it’s not on my list)

Thank you very much for your time and input!!

-Rank

[Haddon]

It depends a lot onw hat you are looking for in a game. If you want a world to explore, or you really want to get into tactical depth.
This is a fairly hard game to start with, it has a level cap you can't grind above if you can't beat a fight. I haven't played BG3 yet, but having played Divinity Original Sin 1 and 2, I know a Larian game. How are you faring with that game? If you like it a lot, and are doing well, I might suggest Divinity Original Sin 2. It is standalone from the first, and a better, much more balanced game. REALLY good.
Dragon Age: Origins is a good one to start with, it can be played like a pretty regular CRPG (what BG3 is classified as, turn-based computer RPG) on easier modes, and more tactically on harder modes. It also has the Tactics system, so you can set up your 3 other characters to auto-battle based on what you want them to do as you control a single character, and swap as you need. Where BG3 expects you to play it completely turn-based or active, picking one, DA:O is "active" in that the turns are going at the same time and quite short. Kinda halfway between true turn-based and action RPG. The later 2 in the series become much more active, I don't count them as turn-based at all.
The Disgaea series is really easy to get into for the basic mechanics. Some of the more advanced ones depend on the game, switching skills around and item world and stuff that aren't in other turn-based games, but the base mechanics are similar to most TRPGs. You can mostly ignore the Geo Panels and shifting and bonuses for the first chunk of each game as you learn the mechanics, they do a good job of teaching them bit by bit.

All I can think of at the moment, may add some more.

[Zoid13]

if you know how to emulator (PPSSPP) id recommend Final Fantasy Tactics over this as an entry point as the battles are much smaller scale, the systems and gear are far more simple and the game is a lot easier overall but still super fun.

also as Haddon mentioned. if you are liking baldurs gate 3. Divinity Original Sin 2 is amazing (up there with my faves... i like it more than BG3 personally) and very similar to BG3 with a little more freedom to what you want to do. any 'class' can learn any combination of skills (the 'class' system in DOS2 is purely named after the skills you select to start with which you don't need to keep)
and you start off being able to take many more actions per turn than in BG3.
while the systems are very similar DOS2 feels a lot more actiony than the more focused DND system of BG3

Tactics Ogre is also amazing. tho as mentioned there are areas of the game (particularly in this version) that can be quite a challenge when you are new to the game. though thats not a bad thing IMO :D

[Haddon]

Originally posted by Zoid13:

if you know how to emulator (PPSSPP) id recommend Final Fantasy Tactics over this as an entry point as the battles are much smaller scale, the systems and gear are far more simple and the game is a lot easier overall but still super fun.

also as Haddon mentioned. if you are liking baldurs gate 3. Divinity Original Sin 2 is amazing (up there with my faves... i like it more than BG3 personally) and very similar to BG3 with a little more freedom to what you want to do. any 'class' can learn any combination of skills (the 'class' system in DOS2 is purely named after the skills you select to start with which you don't need to keep)
and you start off being able to take many more actions per turn than in BG3.
while the systems are very similar DOS2 feels a lot more actiony than the more focused DND system of BG3

Tactics Ogre is also amazing. tho as mentioned there are areas of the game (particularly in this version) that can be quite a challenge when you are new to the game. though thats not a bad thing IMO :D

I was really disappointed when I found out Larian was making BG3 instead of DOS3, just because DND rulesets are so...lame. So so lame. At least for a CRPG. Other rulesets that set out to emulate them some, like Dragon Age and DOS and Pillars of Eternity, all do so much better than DnD IMO. Especially as a campaign goes on in something like BG or Neverwinter 2 and you have a full party, each with dozens of skills, lots of those skills just being redundant once you have better equipment and higher level skills. That is why DOS2, with mods that make action point maxing possible like in DOS1, is so much more fun IMO, each skill that becomes obsolete also only has a small cost, so can become situationally useful.

Though I will say, Larian are not good at balancing their skills for when you get them. You would get the Ram+Whirlwind combo in DOS2 really early on, and nothing beat it until the end of the game. Knock everyone down, spin for bleeds, drink up the blood. So fun, SO OP.

[Zoid13]

yeah their balancing could use some work but the fun makes up for it :P

ive always been partial to starting with the Scoundrel skills for Adrenaline and the general single target burst damage to quickly remove enemy units from the fight and later combining it with a little warfare for crippling blow and whirlwind.
and having all 3 jumps phoenix dive, cloak and dagger and tactical retreat for dumb mobility :P
huntsman is also pretty fun high damage sniper build
i haven't actually played around a giant amount with caster builds. always been more of a sneak around stabby stabby or giant 2handed melee weapons player in all games :P
but they do look fun with all the spell interaction systems they have like make it rain to make a water puddle, turn it into steam with (fire?), poisoning it and throwing some lightning in it to make a toxic lightning storm cloud ect lol

but yeah in general i like larians DOS's lore/world more than the baldursgate lore and i prefer the freedom of their more open system over strict DND.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1590760/Metal_Slug_Tactics/

im looking forward to trying this too :D

[Bridgeburner]

Originally posted by Haddon:

Originally posted by Zoid13:

if you know how to emulator (PPSSPP) id recommend Final Fantasy Tactics over this as an entry point as the battles are much smaller scale, the systems and gear are far more simple and the game is a lot easier overall but still super fun.

also as Haddon mentioned. if you are liking baldurs gate 3. Divinity Original Sin 2 is amazing (up there with my faves... i like it more than BG3 personally) and very similar to BG3 with a little more freedom to what you want to do. any 'class' can learn any combination of skills (the 'class' system in DOS2 is purely named after the skills you select to start with which you don't need to keep)
and you start off being able to take many more actions per turn than in BG3.
while the systems are very similar DOS2 feels a lot more actiony than the more focused DND system of BG3

Tactics Ogre is also amazing. tho as mentioned there are areas of the game (particularly in this version) that can be quite a challenge when you are new to the game. though thats not a bad thing IMO :D

I was really disappointed when I found out Larian was making BG3 instead of DOS3, just because DND rulesets are so...lame. So so lame. At least for a CRPG. Other rulesets that set out to emulate them some, like Dragon Age and DOS and Pillars of Eternity, all do so much better than DnD IMO. Especially as a campaign goes on in something like BG or Neverwinter 2 and you have a full party, each with dozens of skills, lots of those skills just being redundant once you have better equipment and higher level skills. That is why DOS2, with mods that make action point maxing possible like in DOS1, is so much more fun IMO, each skill that becomes obsolete also only has a small cost, so can become situationally useful.

Though I will say, Larian are not good at balancing their skills for when you get them. You would get the Ram+Whirlwind combo in DOS2 really early on, and nothing beat it until the end of the game. Knock everyone down, spin for bleeds, drink up the blood. So fun, SO OP.

Originally posted by Zoid13:

yeah their balancing could use some work but the fun makes up for it :P

ive always been partial to starting with the Scoundrel skills for Adrenaline and the general single target burst damage to quickly remove enemy units from the fight and later combining it with a little warfare for crippling blow and whirlwind.
and having all 3 jumps phoenix dive, cloak and dagger and tactical retreat for dumb mobility :P
huntsman is also pretty fun high damage sniper build
i haven't actually played around a giant amount with caster builds. always been more of a sneak around stabby stabby or giant 2handed melee weapons player in all games :P
but they do look fun with all the spell interaction systems they have like make it rain to make a water puddle, turn it into steam with (fire?), poisoning it and throwing some lightning in it to make a toxic lightning storm cloud ect lol

but yeah in general i like larians DOS's lore/world more than the baldursgate lore and i prefer the freedom of their more open system over strict DND.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1590760/Metal_Slug_Tactics/

im looking forward to trying this too :D

You both are probably going to think I am nuts, but I wasn't super keen on DOS2. I like BG3 more, it just feels more streamlined to me compared to DOS2. Then again, I am a big fan of the DND lore, classes etc. While I don't play the game or video games, I do own a number of the DND books. lol

I was looking for something with a good story, but not quite as "meaty" as BG3 or DOS2. I also played THE HELL out of the Dragon Age series - and LOVED how fluid and tactical the gameplay, stories, and characters were - I AM STOKED for the upcoming game.

[Zoid13]

oh there's a tonne of people that like BG3 that wouldn't like DOS2 :)
from a presentation standpoint BG3 is amazing. having all the conversations cinematically animated adds a load to the RPG experience alone compared to the top down camera and listening to the narrator in DOS2.
Ive never been a fan of table top DND / boardgames or things like actually playing Warhammer table top battles ect, which is the reason while i do like BG3 i prefer something else.
i love painting the warhammer statues for my mate though! :D (I'm a 3d graphics artist in the games industry)

i grew up with no voice acting and reading everything in every rpg and still love that older style of story telling with just text and some dinky sound FX lol
a lot of people these days wont even play a game that isn't voice acted lol

i also love Fromsofts way of story telling where you need to read every item description and note you fond around along with lots of visual queues and subtle hints in the environments monster designs and piece the intricacies of the story together largley yourself.
other people hate it and jsut say that their games have no story through laziness lol.

different things appeal to different people.
ive heard Fell Seal is good (p[art of your list) haven't tried it myself. i think its on my wish list waiting for a sale :P (it is now! could've sworn it was on there already lol)

i somewhat recently also played Triangle strategy on the NintendoSwitch. thought it was decent but its HEAVY HEAVY on the story vs combat. there's areas of the game where you are listening to an hour+ of story and talking to NPC's b4 another battle happens.
i found the combat very fun but there wasnt enough of it imo.
and the game kinda only really opens up once you've finished it and start a NG+ run with the extra functionality. which was kind of a really odd choice locking the extra features and options to a 2nd playthrough....

/shrug

[Bridgeburner]

Originally posted by Zoid13:

oh there's a tonne of people that like BG3 that wouldn't like DOS2 :)
from a presentation standpoint BG3 is amazing. having all the conversations cinematically animated adds a load to the RPG experience alone compared to the top down camera and listening to the narrator in DOS2.
Ive never been a fan of table top DND / boardgames or things like actually playing Warhammer table top battles ect, which is the reason while i do like BG3 i prefer something else.
i love painting the warhammer statues for my mate though! :D (I'm a 3d graphics artist in the games industry)

i grew up with no voice acting and reading everything in every rpg and still love that older style of story telling with just text and some dinky sound FX lol
a lot of people these days wont even play a game that isn't voice acted lol

i also love Fromsofts way of story telling where you need to read every item description and note you fond around along with lots of visual queues and subtle hints in the environments monster designs and piece the intricacies of the story together largley yourself.
other people hate it and jsut say that their games have no story through laziness lol.

different things appeal to different people.
ive heard Fell Seal is good (p[art of your list) haven't tried it myself. i think its on my wish list waiting for a sale :P (it is now! could've sworn it was on there already lol)

i somewhat recently also played Triangle strategy on the NintendoSwitch. thought it was decent but its HEAVY HEAVY on the story vs combat. there's areas of the game where you are listening to an hour+ of story and talking to NPC's b4 another battle happens.
i found the combat very fun but there wasnt enough of it imo.
and the game kinda only really opens up once you've finished it and start a NG+ run with the extra functionality. which was kind of a really odd choice locking the extra features and options to a 2nd playthrough....

/shrug

I remember games that required reading and a little additional imagination. I think that is why I love the concept of DnD so much, in that it requires some theater of the mind and doesn't spoon feed every morsel of narrative. That said, I did /do like the narrator in BG3 and DOS2. I think I bought Triangle Strategy on sale for Steam, but didnt put that many hours in because the story and cutscenes were too drawn out - and I thought MGS had LONG cutscenes. lol

I think I may wait for a sale on Fell Seal, it seems pretty basic for the price of admission- even though it does look like fun.

[Bridgeburner]

Oh, a couple other games I have on my wishlist that seem cool are Expedition Rome and Troubleshooter: Abandoned Children

[Zoid13]

glad im not the only one that thought Triangle strategy had waaaayyy too much story time vs combat lol

[Bridgeburner]

Originally posted by Zoid13:

glad im not the only one that thought Triangle strategy had waaaayyy too much story time vs combat lol

HAHA yup,

Out of curiosity, what are a few of your favorite games and a few of your favorite turn-based games?

[Zoid13]

a lot of the usual nostalgia suspects that i grew up with
dunno about strictly turn-based but games in general;

final fantasy tactics -PSX
Tactics Ogre -PSX
final Fantasy 7 -PSX
Chrono trigger -snes
Mario bros 3 :D
Secret of Mana (seiken densetsu 2) -snes
Trials of Mana (seiken densetsu 3) -snes
Alundra 1 -PSX (the 3d sequel was horrendous)
<3 pokemon games (there's some absolute trash in that pile too though)
Divinity Original Sin 2
Wonder boy in monster land (i still play it on Mame to this day rofl)

resident evil games (most of them.. some are garbage)
parasite eve 2 -psx (basically resident evil with magic)
tombraider always been quite fond of the platforming puzzle solving. i like the older ones more as they had better puzzles.
warcraft 3 (before they butchered it lol)
WoW (guess i have to mention it with how many hours ive played that damn game even though i haven't touched it in 5ish years now lol)
diablo 2 / Path of Exile (i try out lots of Arpg's)

Fromsoft games <3
Sekiro (its what i imagined Tenchu was like back in the 90's)
bloodborne
elden ring (never enjoyed exploring a world as much as this)
darkslouls is fine but I prefer the others.

BIG BIG fighting game player ever since street fighter 2 back in 1991 when i was 11yo at the arcades (mostly on console now) I've probably racked up more hours playing fighting games than i have RPG's in my life :P
i was rank 63 / world in streetfighter 4 with Juri back in 2012-2013 :D

and my biggest surprise since i have never really liked first person shooters and still don't. cyberpunk 2077. that being said i do play it as primarily stealth with knives, swords and fists if that still counts as an FPS game lol...

and i don't know why but by this point most RPG fans would have noticed that i haven't mentioned Zelda.
i never got into Zelda. played A Link to the Past on the SNES for about an hour and that's the only zelda game ive ever played.
dunno what it is but i just have no interest in the franchise /shrug

p.s. Spiral Knights needs a Remake :D

[Haddon]

Originally posted by Zoid13:

yeah their balancing could use some work but the fun makes up for it :P

ive always been partial to starting with the Scoundrel skills for Adrenaline and the general single target burst damage to quickly remove enemy units from the fight and later combining it with a little warfare for crippling blow and whirlwind.
and having all 3 jumps phoenix dive, cloak and dagger and tactical retreat for dumb mobility :P
huntsman is also pretty fun high damage sniper build
i haven't actually played around a giant amount with caster builds. always been more of a sneak around stabby stabby or giant 2handed melee weapons player in all games :P
but they do look fun with all the spell interaction systems they have like make it rain to make a water puddle, turn it into steam with (fire?), poisoning it and throwing some lightning in it to make a toxic lightning storm cloud ect lol

but yeah in general i like larians DOS's lore/world more than the baldursgate lore and i prefer the freedom of their more open system over strict DND.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1590760/Metal_Slug_Tactics/

im looking forward to trying this too :D

If you play another DOS2 run, try out making Sabine into a spear-scoundrel-war, and give her some lighting and water spells, just basic stuff. Then use Red Prince (or anyone else with fire). Slap down a puddle of water, burn it with a fire breath, and then use a lighting spell on the steam; suddenly things are stunned in a large area and you can sneak all around them as they spend 3-5 turns getting out of shock-steam. It is my favorite combo in the game. It basically means you can jump in with a skill, spend two turns Scoundreling like crazy (and maybe some spinny-spinny), then jump back out if anything is left alive. You can shut down like 5+ enemies in a group, while you deal with a whole other group of enemies with the other 3 chars this way. It is how I got through Tactician mode with 0 character deaths.

And agreed, the DOS world is just so alive in a way that DnD always struggles with, because Wizards makes sure there isn't anything too "over the top" in any DnD material. Killing gods because they are actually huge jerks isn't likely to show up in any Realms material. I actually remember the Pillars of Eternity guys talking about that as the game was being released, because that entire game is based on killing literal gods.

Also a FANTASTIC game if you guys haven't played it. Just don't use the archer chick with a fox pet, omg worse "beastmaster" type character I've ever used, the fox was legit useless.

@Rank, sounds like you aren't AS new to the genre as you made out at first. That is good, opens up a lot more possibilities. Like WarTales, which is less forgiving than a lot of TBS/TRPGs.

I would suggest the Front Mission games, 3 and 4 are great. Final Fantasy Tactics, Tactics Advance are both good for fairly new players, though FFTA is really annoying with the laws, I would suggest playing it on emulator and using a cheat to get rid of the yellow and red cards from the laws. Makes the game 10x more fun. FFTA has a terrible story, but the game is fun. FF12, played on slow battle speed and playing it kind of like a CRPG, is quite fun. Especially with the overhaul mod I use that makes the game a bit harder, but less "cheap" difficulty than the vanilla difficulty. Aboslutely INCREDIBLE game, tied as my favorite final fantasy, almost on par with FFT and TO. Another Yasumi Matsuno masterpiece. Beautiful world, beautiful story (that felt a bit rushed at the end sadly), fantastic characters. It makes me sad to know they probably won't ever make another game like it, because the genre has split into full-ARPG or nostalgia-fest RPG.

I haven't played it, so many games on my backlog and hand issues keeping me from playing much, but Symphony of War has rave reviews. It looks really, really good. Combining Ogre Battle and Fire Emblem sorta.

If you want something lighthearted (mostly) and fairly easy, Jeanne D'arc was great, on PSP. It is an unusual one, it tried some interesting things like 2x2 boss units. Also a frog with a sword in its mouth. Not like Frog from Chrono Trigger, an actual little froggie, so cute. Also Gilles de Rais, you can play as him, the first recorded serial killer in Western history, isn't that neat?

If you are interested in getting in on the ground level of a game in development, Septaroad Voyager works like FF12, or Dragon Age Origins a bit, but with really quick turns.

Avoid Arcadian Atlas like the plague. Game is terrible, dev is worse.

[Zoid13]

I've played Pillars of Eternity on my mates account. it was indeed pretty good. (also haven't finished it)
i started playing Jeanne D'arc a few years ago with PPSSPP something came up and ive never gone back to it. i was enjoying it at the time though.

[Franz]

Battle Brothers is also fun, to keep it brief it's the procedurally generated little brother to the big names you've listed. It's not the easiest to get in but I don't think there are good TRPGs that are really newbie friendly, they inherently reward doing your homework, learning how the various mechanics interact and how to exploit them to overcome the opponent.

[Bridgeburner]

Originally posted by Franz:

Battle Brothers is also fun, to keep it brief it's the procedurally generated little brother to the big names you've listed. It's not the easiest to get in but I don't think there are good TRPGs that are really newbie friendly, they inherently reward doing your homework, learning how the various mechanics interact and how to exploit them to overcome the opponent.

You know, that is good advice - I really think a flaw of mine is just jumping in and not really doing much research aside from habitual failing. lol

While I enjoy failing some, it begins to turn me off on the game when it’s too frequent and/or too severe.

I have heard Battle Bros RNG is pretty brutal which is why I didn’t list it - even though it has some excellent reviews with some hefty hours.

May I ask the thread (and you) a rough process you follow when getting into a new TRPG? And what is it about this genre that draws you in?