This version makes me sad beyond words

[Swimfan]

Once upon a time Tactics Ogre was my favorite PSP game (which I NEVER expected it to be when I bought it). I played this game such a long time ago that my heart skipped a beat when I recognized the "wheel is turning" reference during advertisment of this port ... only to be instantly taken aback by how lackluster the "Reborn version" feels and looks.

1) I'm really not the first one to mention this but I think this can't be stressed enough: The character models look HORRENDOUS. They look like something an old SNES emulator could/would do which I would instantly revert because of how distracting it looks. I have no words for this ... Square Enix, one of the most graphic-obssessed videogaming companies (in a good way) tries to tell me that they "enhanced" those character models? They can't be serious?

2) The voice-acting (from what I've heard so far) is a travesty. I actually don't mind that much because I could just mute them or play on japanese but for me this just proves that they're lazily crossing stuff off their "what we need to do to resell as a Remaster Version"-checklist just as the graphics above.

3.) The pricing is ludicrous. 50 bucks for this low-effort port when they just released their stunning Nier port on Switch for 40bucks?! What is even going on? :-D

As it stands now, I can not support this and will sadly not buy this game. I was looking forward to play this game on Switch, this could have been the highlight of the year for me. Instead it's a reminder that a huge chunk of Square Enix is not really doing their job anymore. What makes me even more sad is how easily so many people cheer for this product and seem to be cool with whatever SE throws at them. This could have been a celebration of one of THE best tactical games ever made ... instead I'm just shaking my head in disbelief - I know it sounds kinda exaggerated but this really describes my reaction best :-P

[Haddon]

Cool story, bro. I think the game looks fine. Character models are a bit off, but just a bit. Nowhere near enough to be this upset over. Who cares about the voice acting for a game you read anyway? I do think the game should be $40, but meh, $10 difference doesn't matter much.

Game is going to be amazing, I have zero doubt.

[Pickleton]

Can't tell if troll or hasn't read anything about this version.

1) The graphics were upscaled because a straight port of the PSP or SNES graphics would look atrocious on a modern TV. What exactly were you hoping for graphics-wise? This isn't an FPS, and I'd be pissed if they changed this game to look like Xcom (not that Xcom looks bad, but not what I'd be expecting from a Tactics Ogre game). The alternative is redrawing all of the sprite art from scratch, but afaik they said it just wasn't doable with their time and budget.

2) Agreed that the voice acting doesn't sound good ... but that's enough to not want the game? Oh lawdy. Do you always refuse to buy games if the VAs don't sound good? There must be entire companies that you blacklist if that's the case. Just turn off the voices and enjoy the game without talking like in the previous versions (except Saturn which had VAs).

3) If this was a straight port of the PSP or SNES version, you might have a point. However, a lot more has been done to this game than simply an AI upscale and voices. Maybe read a bit about the differences between this version and others before coming to that conclusion? Maybe wait until it's on sale? Regardless, the launch price should never really be the factor for whether or not to buy a game, unless it's something ridiculously above the market price (like Koei Tecmo charging upwards of $100 for a game with day1 DLC that includes mechanics or story). Games tend to be full price on launch and then get cheaper over time, rather than the other way around. The reason that Nier released for Switch at $40 is because it's a port without much change. If anything, I'd argue that nier should have had a sale at launch and then keep it at whatever price the other versions go for.

[Haddon]

Originally posted by Pickleton:

Can't tell if troll or hasn't read anything about this version.

1) The graphics were upscaled because a straight port of the PSP or SNES graphics would look atrocious on a modern TV. What exactly were you hoping for graphics-wise? This isn't an FPS, and I'd be pissed if they changed this game to look like Xcom (not that Xcom looks bad, but not what I'd be expecting from a Tactics Ogre game). The alternative is redrawing all of the sprite art from scratch, but afaik they said it just wasn't doable with their time and budget.

2) Agreed that the voice acting doesn't sound good ... but that's enough to not want the game? Oh lawdy. Do you always refuse to buy games if the VAs don't sound good? There must be entire companies that you blacklist if that's the case. Just turn off the voices and enjoy the game without talking like in the previous versions (except Saturn which had VAs).

3) If this was a straight port of the PSP or SNES version, you might have a point. However, a lot more has been done to this game than simply an AI upscale and voices. Maybe read a bit about the differences between this version and others before coming to that conclusion? Maybe wait until it's on sale? Regardless, the launch price should never really be the factor for whether or not to buy a game, unless it's something ridiculously above the market price (like Koei Tecmo charging upwards of $100 for a game with day1 DLC that includes mechanics or story). Games tend to be full price on launch and then get cheaper over time, rather than the other way around. The reason that Nier released for Switch at $40 is because it's a port without much change. If anything, I'd argue that nier should have had a sale at launch and then keep it at whatever price the other versions go for.

I remember when I got Dynasty Warriors 4: Extreme Legends and I thought "boy, this is some pretty exploitative, scummy marketing, making other modes a whole like expansion game a year later". NOTHING compared to Koei now. To get everything in Dynasty Warriors 10, when it eventually comes along, that would have been available in 3, 4 or 5, it will cost a player $300, easily. I wouldn't be surprised if the next Nobunaga's Ambition that comes out, you have to pay to unlock gunpowder units. Then pay again to unlock gunpowder SIEGE units. Then pay AGAIN to be able to use those on a custom officer's custom unit, which you also had to pay to unlock of course, Power Up Kits galore!

That being said, RTKXI+PUK is so, so good. Still oneof my favorite strategy games. Combines campaign strategy and tactics on the battlefield so well, and combines grand strategy and logistics at the higher level so well. My dream is to someday make a game that plays like it, but with more mechanical depth and more realism.

[Tsuru]

Originally posted by Swimfan:

Once upon a time Tactics Ogre was my favorite PSP game (which I NEVER expected it to be when I bought it). I played this game such a long time ago that my heart skipped a beat when I recognized the "wheel is turning" reference during advertisment of this port ... only to be instantly taken aback by how lackluster the "Reborn version" feels and looks.

1) I'm really not the first one to mention this but I think this can't be stressed enough: The character models look HORRENDOUS. They look like something an old SNES emulator could/would do which I would instantly revert because of how distracting it looks. I have no words for this ... Square Enix, one of the most graphic-obssessed videogaming companies (in a good way) tries to tell me that they "enhanced" those character models? They can't be serious?

2) The voice-acting (from what I've heard so far) is a travesty. I actually don't mind that much because I could just mute them or play on japanese but for me this just proves that they're lazily crossing stuff off their "what we need to do to resell as a Remaster Version"-checklist just as the graphics above.

3.) The pricing is ludicrous. 50 bucks for this low-effort port when they just released their stunning Nier port on Switch for 40bucks?! What is even going on? :-D

As it stands now, I can not support this and will sadly not buy this game. I was looking forward to play this game on Switch, this could have been the highlight of the year for me. Instead it's a reminder that a huge chunk of Square Enix is not really doing their job anymore. What makes me even more sad is how easily so many people cheer for this product and seem to be cool with whatever SE throws at them. This could have been a celebration of one of THE best tactical games ever made ... instead I'm just shaking my head in disbelief - I know it sounds kinda exaggerated but this really describes my reaction best :-P

1. Looks good to me.

2. Did you only watch that one clip of the voice acting. or did you not actually look up the rest of the cast and see the many other talents that will make that one voice actor become overshadowed

3. Its not a port. Learn the difference between a port vs remake vs remaster

[Swimfan]

Originally posted by Pickleton:

Can't tell if troll or hasn't read anything about this version.

1) The graphics were upscaled because a straight port of the PSP or SNES graphics would look atrocious on a modern TV. What exactly were you hoping for graphics-wise? This isn't an FPS, and I'd be pissed if they changed this game to look like Xcom (not that Xcom looks bad, but not what I'd be expecting from a Tactics Ogre game). The alternative is redrawing all of the sprite art from scratch, but afaik they said it just wasn't doable with their time and budget.

2) Agreed that the voice acting doesn't sound good ... but that's enough to not want the game? Oh lawdy. Do you always refuse to buy games if the VAs don't sound good? There must be entire companies that you blacklist if that's the case. Just turn off the voices and enjoy the game without talking like in the previous versions (except Saturn which had VAs).

3) If this was a straight port of the PSP or SNES version, you might have a point. However, a lot more has been done to this game than simply an AI upscale and voices. Maybe read a bit about the differences between this version and others before coming to that conclusion? Maybe wait until it's on sale? Regardless, the launch price should never really be the factor for whether or not to buy a game, unless it's something ridiculously above the market price (like Koei Tecmo charging upwards of $100 for a game with day1 DLC that includes mechanics or story). Games tend to be full price on launch and then get cheaper over time, rather than the other way around. The reason that Nier released for Switch at $40 is because it's a port without much change. If anything, I'd argue that nier should have had a sale at launch and then keep it at whatever price the other versions go for.

Actually yes, for 50 bucks I expect them to redraw those sprites. Sorry guys and gals, that's my honest opinion.
Videogaming is more lucrative in 2022 than movies and you want to tell me SE had no ressources for a full-on Remaster?

_______________

What I find funny about SE is actually their inconsitency when it comes to projects ... just to name a few:

-> Moogle Racer = total cashgrab full-priced and full of Microtransactions

-> FF Pixel Remaster = good idea/ sadly some bad polishing and questionable platforming decisions ("only on Switch and PS IF fans voice their interest" .. I mean really? :-D) - also note how they could "redraw" those sprite easily for 6 games for 10 bucks per game ....

-> Nier port for Switch = 40 bucks for a really well-done port that runs totally smooth and took some serious work to get running looking this (especially for Switch hardware standards)

-> Octopath Traveler 2 and Triangle Strategy looking AMAZING (the latter I've finished and would only call a little overpriced by maybe 10 bucks)

.... and now this. No redrawn sprites/ let's call it "questionable or inconsistent voice acting"for 50 bucks.

The company has become a rollercoaster :-P

[Pickleton]

Originally posted by Swimfan:

Actually yes, for 50 bucks I expect them to redraw those sprites. Sorry guys and gals, that's my honest opinion.

And your opinion is just like ...your opinion. Too bad not everyone shares it. Actually, probably enough people will pay money for this game that I don't think SE cares.

Originally posted by Swimfan:

Videogaming is more lucrative in 2022 than movies and you want to tell me SE had no ressources for a full-on Remaster?

That's why there's so much consolidation and then selling off studios because they don't recoup investment, eh? Remade pretty much every system in the game, which also means balancing and manually setting literally thousands, if not tens of thousands of individual units skill/equip/magic lists. Complete rework of AI to make for more enemies that actually use strategy instead of "GET HIM!" UI and menu overhaul. A Fully remade OST with a live orchestra. Full voice acting (I don't care if you don't like it), including a fair amount of high tier talent. Aside from the story, I would say that qualifies as what some might call ... a new game.

Originally posted by Swimfan:

What I find funny about SE is actually their inconsitency when it comes to projects ... just to name a few:

This should be rich.

Originally posted by Swimfan:

-> Moogle Racer = total cashgrab full-priced and full of Microtransactions

Man, SE really must've had a lapse in judgement there, I've never heard of them doing cashgrabs before ... or microtransactions (is this where I put an emote to point out sarcasm? Since they have a metric ton of games that fill both those categories). I've also never heard of another big game company that would do either of those things (man, I really need to find a good emote to convey sarcasm. Let's go with )

Originally posted by Swimfan:

-> FF Pixel Remaster = good idea/ sadly some bad polishing and questionable platforming decisions ("only on Switch and PS IF fans voice their interest" .. I mean really? :-D) - also note how they could "redraw" those sprite easily for 6 games for 10 bucks per game ....

Because these are straight ports of the original console versions with only touched up graphics. Pretty much everything else was left untouched. Someone could've modded the original games to be the "Pixel" versions, and I wouldn't even be surprised if someone did something similar for FREE as a pet project while working on a game design degree. They even didn't use the bonus content in the remakes from later iterations, like post game dungeons or the extra classes in FF5.

Originally posted by Swimfan:

-> Nier port for Switch = 40 bucks for a really well-done port that runs totally smooth and took some serious work to get running looking this (especially for Switch hardware standards)

You successfully identified this one as a port! Good job ! The game is also available on other consoles and itself is 5-6 years old, so it wouldn't make sense to charge the same price as a newly launched title.

Originally posted by Swimfan:

-> Octopath Traveler 2 and Triangle Strategy looking AMAZING (the latter I've finished and would only call a little overpriced by maybe 10 bucks)

Haven't gotten around to these ones, tbh, so can't really say anything about quality. Octopath looked too much like the old SaGa games (which I'm not a huge fan of). One thing to point out, though, is that as a rule I never really judge a a game based on launch price, especially on PC. A number of factors go into it including distributor taking a cut, but then people act like Steam sales happen once every 10 years and only for like 5%. If the game's worth $40 instead of $50 to you, get it on GoG or wait for a sale. Shouldn't take more than a few months in general.

Originally posted by Swimfan:

.... and now this. No redrawn sprites/ let's call it "questionable or inconsistent voice acting"for 50 bucks.

Yes. Because everything else that went into this remake is pointless if it still looks like the same game. Doubly so if the VAs aren't to your liking.

Originally posted by Swimfan:

The company has become a rollercoaster :-P

I'm sorry to hear that. They're still getting my money and many others', so I have a feeling they're not going to be shattered to hear you say that.

Edit: I think it's funny you're complaining up a storm about a "port" that isn't really a port, and yet as I'm typing this, Steam says you're currently playing Dragon Quest XI S, which was $59.99 when it released on Steam, despite it being a port of the Switch version, and the previous PC version was already on Steam for $39.99 at that point.

[Swimfan]

Originally posted by Pickleton:

(...)

I aknowledge that you're taking a lot of time and try to pick apart every single word I say but my rule of thumb is that I don't answer people who drag conversations to a personal level (and who look at my personal gaming history and try to make a point). Yes, what I said is MY opinion and you can do with your money whatever you feel like ... feel free to buy 3 copies of TO Reborn for all I care.
This topic is not to change someones mind ... it really was just me venting my frustration and looking sadly at "what could have been".

[Melodia]

Originally posted by Tsuru:

3. Its not a port. Learn the difference between a port vs remake vs remaster

The companies who make them can't even tell the difference, how do you expect the average gamer to?

[Swimfan]

Originally posted by Melodia:

Originally posted by Tsuru:

3. Its not a port. Learn the difference between a port vs remake vs remaster

The companies who make them can't even tell the difference, how do you expect the average gamer to?

That's actually sadly true. None of these words are legally defined as far as I know.
There's an "Allan Wake Remastered" for Switch since yesterday which runs worse than the original XBox360 game.

[Pickleton]

Originally posted by Swimfan:

Originally posted by Melodia:

The companies who make them can't even tell the difference, how do you expect the average gamer to?

That's actually sadly true. None of these words are legally defined as far as I know.
There's an "Allan Wake Remastered" for Switch since yesterday which runs worse than the original XBox360 game.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... here you go.
Remaster - A slight increase in quality for the purpose of becoming the basis of future versions. Originally a music term, but is now applied to other media (like games).
Remake - To re-make something using different methods. e.g. If it's the same game but made in a new engine, it's a remake. If a movie is shot with a new cast, it's a remake (assuming the goal is more or less the same product).
Reboot - Somewhat the same as a remake, but intentionally changing a number of things. James Rolfe (the Angry Video Game Nerd) claims there should be a further categorization for media that just reuses the same name but is a completely different product called a "Name-make", but nobody actually says that.
Port - Originally an IT/comms term to move software, a phone number, etc. to another system, without it being changed

Per these definitions, Tactics Ogre: Reborn is both a remake and a reboot, since the story and characters are being remade, but the mechanics, items and basically everything else is different.

Regarding DQ XI S, I didn't have to look at your profile, sweetheart. I moused over your name. Such an investment of effort on my part . Don't think too highly of yourself.

[Swimfan]

Originally posted by Pickleton:

Originally posted by Swimfan:

That's actually sadly true. None of these words are legally defined as far as I know.
There's an "Allan Wake Remastered" for Switch since yesterday which runs worse than the original XBox360 game.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... here you go.
Remaster - A slight increase in quality for the purpose of becoming the basis of future versions. Originally a music term, but is now applied to other media (like games).
Remake - To re-make something using different methods. e.g. If it's the same game but made in a new engine, it's a remake. If a movie is shot with a new cast, it's a remake (assuming the goal is more or less the same product).
Reboot - Somewhat the same as a remake, but intentionally changing a number of things. James Rolfe (the Angry Video Game Nerd) claims there should be a further categorization for media that just reuses the same name but is a completely different product called a "Name-make", but nobody actually says that.
Port - Originally an IT/comms term to move software, a phone number, etc. to another system, without it being changed

Per these definitions, Tactics Ogre: Reborn is both a remake and a reboot, since the story and characters are being remade, but the mechanics, items and basically everything else is different.

Regarding DQ XI S, I didn't have to look at your profile, sweetheart. I moused over your name. Such an investment of effort on my part :ashshocked:. Don't think too highly of yourself.

Jeez, you really need this to go on, don't you? :-D Very amusing.

[Melodia]

Originally posted by Pickleton:

Because these are straight ports of the original console versions with only touched up graphics. Pretty much everything else was left untouched.

Um...what? That's just....not true at ALL. The differences between the Pixel Remasters and previous versions is immense -- stuff that was consistent in every single previous release is different, the graphics (especially the sprites) are across the board different ('touched up' is like calling a volcano 'a bit hot',....they reuse some backgrounds from the GBA versions but it's very inconsistent), and that's not even getting into the fact the introduction of quicksave creates a very different dynamic in playing the game.
Despite their name, they aren't even remasters, they are remakes (albeit, failed attempts at 1:1 remakes). The games were programmed from the ground up, basically no bugs from the original games are there (which isn't true of previous ports) but plenty of new ones are in.

Originally posted by Pickleton:

Edit: I think it's funny you're complaining up a storm about a "port" that isn't really a port, and yet as I'm typing this, Steam says you're currently playing Dragon Quest XI S, which was $59.99 when it released on Steam, despite it being a port of the Switch version, and the previous PC version was already on Steam for $39.99 at that point.

And that's wrong too. You have it backwards. The original DQ XI never dropped below $60 base price, whereas DQ XI S launched at $40 (and still is).

[Pickleton]

Originally posted by Swimfan:

Jeez, you really need this to go on, don't you? :-D Very amusing.

I like for things to make sense and educate people instead of run around sounding like an idiot for sport :-D

[Swimfan]

Originally posted by Melodia:

Originally posted by Pickleton:

Because these are straight ports of the original console versions with only touched up graphics. Pretty much everything else was left untouched.

Um...what? That's just....not true at ALL. The differences between the Pixel Remasters and previous versions is immense -- stuff that was consistent in every single previous release is different, the graphics (especially the sprites) are across the board different ('touched up' is like calling a volcano 'a bit hot',....they reuse some backgrounds from the GBA versions but it's very inconsistent), and that's not even getting into the fact the introduction of quicksave creates a very different dynamic in playing the game.
Despite their name, they aren't even remasters, they are remakes (albeit, failed attempts at 1:1 remakes). The games were programmed from the ground up, basically no bugs from the original games are there (which isn't true of previous ports) but plenty of new ones are in.

Yeah, the Pixel Remaster really feel like they went the extra mile. I only haven't bought them yet because I want those games to be on my Switch (so I can play them on the go).

[Swimfan]

Originally posted by Pickleton:

Originally posted by Swimfan:

Jeez, you really need this to go on, don't you? :-D Very amusing.

I like for things to make sense and educate people instead of run around sounding like an idiot for sport :-D

Funny because you're actually looking like a smartypants, picking apart sentences word for word, trying to start fights on a personal level.
But hey, you do you :-P