Who actually enjoys this meta?

[good vibes]

20 Hand traps, instant surrenders, one card combos, floodgates, maxx c...

Seriously, why do people still like this game when its the least interactive card game available? The entire game loop revolves around limiting your opponents interactivity.

How is this fun for anyone?

[Terminal Desolation]

Sorry that you're not having fun but my god is this format a blast. There's so much you can do, the Fiendsmith engine helped my pet deck quite a bit so it's been fun for me to get to play my favorite deck again. Feels like I can play through just about anything with a half decent hand and feels like I can break most boards with a good enough one. Tons of decks are viable and significantly improved with the new cards.

The only thing I don't really like is that Snake Eyes is the best deck. Again. I'm tired of seeing those cards. The end board is so insane and so consistent, but I expect it to get hit again soon, likely after the upcoming Duelist Cup. It's pretty much the only deck that I'm consistently struggling to break through if they get their full combo. Which they almost always do because I'm not playing any hand traps, so I just gotta break their board, but I've got a couple of techs for that.

It's a good format, much better than the last one. May we never have another Tenpai format. Might be more oppressive if you're unwilling to take advantage of the new stuff and improve your deck, but that's a decision you're making.

[Silyon]

Handtraps are literally interaction tools. They are what allows you to participate meaningfully in the game, and refusal to use them means you're a punching bag at best. You don't have to like them, but if you're intent on playing the game you still have to get used to them.

Surrenders are always annoying. It's a product of the culture we've created in the name of "Saving time" in matches "We've already lost". This is at it's worst in Master Duel, where people tend to have the attention span of toddlers and prefer to alt-tab and watch youtube instead of even trying to engage with the game. Quite a lot of people are after cheap, no-effort wins and will scoop whenever they'd have to actually think about the game they chose to play. Harsh, absolutely, but true.

One card combos are a legitimate mistake in Yugioh's game design, but the mistake was made years ago and has been normalized. In modern play, if you're not able to combo off in spite of disruption then your deck is either old and not been supported for a significant amount of time, or fundamentally misbuilt and can be substantially improved. You can net-deck or ask questions to get caught up to modern expectations, but you cannot expect old strategies to still work 5-10 years (at best!) past their prime.

Floodgates are the only thing you list that are legitimately non-interaction, and the only people that will argue in favor of them are the ones that don't know how to play without them. This is why a lot of the worst offenders are banned or limited to one, and more have been getting added to the list with every banlist because of how non-interactive and unfun they make games. Especially in Master Duel's Best-of-One format.

Maxx C is another widely hated card that's drummed up a bunch of controversy already. Go check old threads if you're interested, no one's stance on the card has changed in about 10 years and it's not likely to change anytime soon.

I think that about covers it. As for who enjoys it, about 19,000 players every day on average from Steam alone. Who knows how many more on mobile devices or non-Steam platforms. The argument could be made that even you like it, because you care enough to make this post in the first place. Someone that wasn't having fun and didn't care wouldn't bother posting anything or even get mad about it, they'd just vanish without notice.

[Akemua]

Originally posted by Silyon:

Handtraps are literally interaction tools. They are what allows you to participate meaningfully in the game, and refusal to use them means you're a punching bag at best. You don't have to like them, but if you're intent on playing the game you still have to get used to them.

Surrenders are always annoying. It's a product of the culture we've created in the name of "Saving time" in matches "We've already lost". This is at it's worst in Master Duel, where people tend to have the attention span of toddlers and prefer to alt-tab and watch youtube instead of even trying to engage with the game. Quite a lot of people are after cheap, no-effort wins and will scoop whenever they'd have to actually think about the game they chose to play. Harsh, absolutely, but true.

One card combos are a legitimate mistake in Yugioh's game design, but the mistake was made years ago and has been normalized. In modern play, if you're not able to combo off in spite of disruption then your deck is either old and not been supported for a significant amount of time, or fundamentally misbuilt and can be substantially improved. You can net-deck or ask questions to get caught up to modern expectations, but you cannot expect old strategies to still work 5-10 years (at best!) past their prime.

Floodgates are the only thing you list that are legitimately non-interaction, and the only people that will argue in favor of them are the ones that don't know how to play without them. This is why a lot of the worst offenders are banned or limited to one, and more have been getting added to the list with every banlist because of how non-interactive and unfun they make games. Especially in Master Duel's Best-of-One format.

Maxx C is another widely hated card that's drummed up a bunch of controversy already. Go check old threads if you're interested, no one's stance on the card has changed in about 10 years and it's not likely to change anytime soon.

I think that about covers it. As for who enjoys it, about 19,000 players every day on average from Steam alone. Who knows how many more on mobile devices or non-Steam platforms. The argument could be made that even you like it, because you care enough to make this post in the first place. Someone that wasn't having fun and didn't care wouldn't bother posting anything or even get mad about it, they'd just vanish without notice.

Oh no, now you've done it. you're going to anger a certain forum regular that dismisses literal definitions in favor of his argument, in this case interactions and considers floodgates as the greatest thing Konami has ever made.

[JayDee Phoenix]

I just wish everyone didnt pkay the same dam thing.

[good vibes]

Originally posted by Silyon:

Handtraps are literally interaction tools.

My issue with handtraps in general is not the going second with them so you can try and stop your opponent, its the going first with them and making an established board with 2-3 handtraps still in your hand, from drawing with engine cards or just not even having to use any from your opening hand. You're basically guaranteed a loss if you draw no handtraps and your opponent does.

[Silyon]

Originally posted by Akemua:

Oh no, now you've done it. you're going to anger a certain forum regular that dismisses literal definitions in favor of his argument, in this case interactions and considers floodgates as the greatest thing Konami has ever made.

Big shrug. If it's who I think, I hardly care because they're one of a very short list of people I've given up on and blocked. They're entitled to their opinion, even if the opinion is factually and provably wrong. Just like I'm entitled to ignore them.

Originally posted by Sap:

My issue with handtraps in general is not the going second with them so you can try and stop your opponent, its the going first with them and making an established board with 2-3 handtraps still in your hand, from drawing with engine cards or just not even having to use any from your opening hand. You're basically guaranteed a loss if you draw no handtraps and your opponent does.

This is no different from opening a bunch of boardbreakers when going first, before your opponent's established anything to break. You still can't play and your opponent gets to play basically unimpeded, likely OTKing you on the spot because in that scenario they get their battle phase. The issue you're describing isn't even related to Handtraps and has more to do with the build of your deck and the nature of random variance in a card game. One of these is fixable to a point, the other is part of why learning how to lose gracefully is important.

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by Sap:

20 Hand traps, instant surrenders, one card combos, floodgates, maxx c...

Seriously, why do people still like this game when its the least interactive card game available? The entire game loop revolves around limiting your opponents interactivity.

How is this fun for anyone?

To answer the question in the title, people who unironically argue handtraps are "interactive" and not objectively worse than the floodgates they're irrationally averse to.

As for how, the standard Yugioh npc plays the garbage you mentioned. They see it as "interactive" and "well balanced" because they're the ones that get to actually interact, meanwhile the ones just trying to enjoy their old favorite card game get to do nothing but sit and watch as these people play by themselves.

They don't see the problem because they are the problem, you may as well be asking why the scorpion stung the frog.

Originally posted by Silyon:

Originally posted by Akemua:

Oh no, now you've done it. you're going to anger a certain forum regular that dismisses literal definitions in favor of his argument, in this case interactions and considers floodgates as the greatest thing Konami has ever made.

Big shrug. If it's who I think, I hardly care because they're one of a very short list of people I've given up on and blocked. They're entitled to their opinion, even if the opinion is factually and provably wrong. Just like I'm entitled to ignore them.

Like yours?

[Soji]

I enjoy it a lot yea. It's not my favorite format ever, but it's way more enjoyable than master duel has been in a long time. Floodgates are all but gone at this point, Maxx C while still around is finally getting hit so its only a matter of time its gone and dealing with mulcharmy are far less oppressive. I just feel like you and many others fundamentally do not have the same definition of interaction as most who play this game use. Interaction doesn't mean passing turn 7 or 8 times, allowing you opponent to go full combo and then you going full combo and just seeing who wins, it means the having tools to be able to >INTERACT< with what you opponent is trying to do and what they've already established.

That means handtraps as much as you hate them. That also means using engine to play through handtraps, baiting it when necessary, knowing when to not over extend before doing so. It's very interactive. You might not like the interaction this game has, and that's completely fair, but saying there is none is just flat out wrong and frankly ignorant. People like the amount of actions you can take and outplaying people even through these cards that seem so oppressive. If they really where as oppressive as people like to be hyperbolic about, people would treat them just as they do floodgates, because there is frankly no room to do anything through them.

[Astrallight]

Originally posted by Akemua:

Originally posted by Silyon:

Handtraps are literally interaction tools. They are what allows you to participate meaningfully in the game, and refusal to use them means you're a punching bag at best. You don't have to like them, but if you're intent on playing the game you still have to get used to them.

Surrenders are always annoying. It's a product of the culture we've created in the name of "Saving time" in matches "We've already lost". This is at it's worst in Master Duel, where people tend to have the attention span of toddlers and prefer to alt-tab and watch youtube instead of even trying to engage with the game. Quite a lot of people are after cheap, no-effort wins and will scoop whenever they'd have to actually think about the game they chose to play. Harsh, absolutely, but true.

One card combos are a legitimate mistake in Yugioh's game design, but the mistake was made years ago and has been normalized. In modern play, if you're not able to combo off in spite of disruption then your deck is either old and not been supported for a significant amount of time, or fundamentally misbuilt and can be substantially improved. You can net-deck or ask questions to get caught up to modern expectations, but you cannot expect old strategies to still work 5-10 years (at best!) past their prime.

Floodgates are the only thing you list that are legitimately non-interaction, and the only people that will argue in favor of them are the ones that don't know how to play without them. This is why a lot of the worst offenders are banned or limited to one, and more have been getting added to the list with every banlist because of how non-interactive and unfun they make games. Especially in Master Duel's Best-of-One format.

Maxx C is another widely hated card that's drummed up a bunch of controversy already. Go check old threads if you're interested, no one's stance on the card has changed in about 10 years and it's not likely to change anytime soon.

I think that about covers it. As for who enjoys it, about 19,000 players every day on average from Steam alone. Who knows how many more on mobile devices or non-Steam platforms. The argument could be made that even you like it, because you care enough to make this post in the first place. Someone that wasn't having fun and didn't care wouldn't bother posting anything or even get mad about it, they'd just vanish without notice.

Oh no, now you've done it. you're going to anger a certain forum regular that dismisses literal definitions in favor of his argument, in this case interactions and considers floodgates as the greatest thing Konami has ever made.

Both floodgates and heavy combo decks are both bad. Either way you dont get a turn unless you draw a perfect hand against both.

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by Astrallight:

Originally posted by Akemua:

Oh no, now you've done it. you're going to anger a certain forum regular that dismisses literal definitions in favor of his argument, in this case interactions and considers floodgates as the greatest thing Konami has ever made.

Both floodgates and heavy combo decks are both bad. Either way you dont get a turn unless you draw a perfect hand against both.

Literally this, I'd rather board breakers over either tbh.

And also I don't dismiss "literal definitions", I point out obvious holes in faulty arguments, call out ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, and state what I know based on my personal experience. That's for the npcs in the forums to do.

[e-dood]

Originally posted by Soji:

I enjoy it a lot yea. It's not my favorite format ever, but it's way more enjoyable than master duel has been in a long time. Floodgates are all but gone at this point, Maxx C while still around is finally getting hit so its only a matter of time its gone and dealing with mulcharmy are far less oppressive. I just feel like you and many others fundamentally do not have the same definition of interaction as most who play this game use. Interaction doesn't mean passing turn 7 or 8 times, allowing you opponent to go full combo and then you going full combo and just seeing who wins, it means the having tools to be able to >INTERACT< with what you opponent is trying to do and what they've already established.

That means handtraps as much as you hate them. That also means using engine to play through handtraps, baiting it when necessary, knowing when to not over extend before doing so. It's very interactive. You might not like the interaction this game has, and that's completely fair, but saying there is none is just flat out wrong and frankly ignorant. People like the amount of actions you can take and outplaying people even through these cards that seem so oppressive. If they really where as oppressive as people like to be hyperbolic about, people would treat them just as they do floodgates, because there is frankly no room to do anything through them.

I think Konami accidentally created a decent to good format.

Just a blind stroke of luck type of accident.

[HeraldOfOpera]

Originally posted by e-dood:

Originally posted by Soji:

I enjoy it a lot yea. It's not my favorite format ever, but it's way more enjoyable than master duel has been in a long time. Floodgates are all but gone at this point, Maxx C while still around is finally getting hit so its only a matter of time its gone and dealing with mulcharmy are far less oppressive. I just feel like you and many others fundamentally do not have the same definition of interaction as most who play this game use. Interaction doesn't mean passing turn 7 or 8 times, allowing you opponent to go full combo and then you going full combo and just seeing who wins, it means the having tools to be able to >INTERACT< with what you opponent is trying to do and what they've already established.

That means handtraps as much as you hate them. That also means using engine to play through handtraps, baiting it when necessary, knowing when to not over extend before doing so. It's very interactive. You might not like the interaction this game has, and that's completely fair, but saying there is none is just flat out wrong and frankly ignorant. People like the amount of actions you can take and outplaying people even through these cards that seem so oppressive. If they really where as oppressive as people like to be hyperbolic about, people would treat them just as they do floodgates, because there is frankly no room to do anything through them.

I think Konami accidentally created a decent to good format.

Just a blind stroke of luck type of accident.

They've certainly never done so on purpose, as I've repeatedly stated. That was as true in the early formats as it is in the modern ones (the very first format, before the game even left Japan, was Tier 0 Exodia FTK).

[¬°𝔐𝔦𝔯𝔞𝔯]

the issue isent with handtraps they are quite helpful its that every #¤#¤"#¤ metadeck almost always got like 2-3 outs even if u handtrap them so dammed if u do dammed if u dont.

[e-dood]

Originally posted by HeraldOfOpera:

Originally posted by e-dood:

I think Konami accidentally created a decent to good format.

Just a blind stroke of luck type of accident.

They've certainly never done so on purpose, as I've repeatedly stated. That was as true in the early formats as it is in the modern ones (the very first format, before the game even left Japan, was Tier 0 Exodia FTK).

Oh, I know it's never on purpose.

I just find it funny when it happens.

Kinda nice till Konami decides to screw it up.

[Syllo C-137]

Good question, me and my friend certainly doesn't.
Snakes being the top deck with more tools than ever
Having 5-8 Maxx c's has turned 90% of games into minigame handtrap droll/ash check followed by surrender
Fiendsmith now makes every deck take 5+ minutes to do their combos
Due to all the bs above Stun and floodgates are on the rise again
10/10 game /s