Dong Zhuo Dishonest and embarassing game design

[Lahoo Eckbert]

"Lets have all the terrible gaming decisions and bundle them all together"
Bunch of oneshot mechanics, delayed attacks, infinte poise and combos... Seriously, what the hell were they thinking?
I know the Ng+ has an insane difficulty spike but this guy is beyond any other wall I've hit so far.

[Tiasmoon]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Witcher:

I'm expecting posts about the duel with Hong Jing ...

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2948980796

Is that still on NG? She becomes even more amazing on NG+
Optional mission tho, so I guess not everyone even fights her.

[Witcher]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tiasmoon:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Witcher:

I'm expecting posts about the duel with Hong Jing ...

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2948980796

Is that still on NG? She becomes even more amazing on NG+
Optional mission tho, so I guess not everyone even fights her.

Yes NG that I believe Op is refering to.

[L.Kaldwin]

Im playing on NG+, already beat Dong Zhou, and repeatedly for a 5* to drop.

Even with all +8 light armor set and berserker buff, i rarely got one shotted by him..... or rather, i rarely got hit by anything except the knife throws.

You must have done something very wrong with your build.

[Tenshu]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tiasmoon:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Witcher:

I'm expecting posts about the duel with Hong Jing ...

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2948980796

Is that still on NG? She becomes even more amazing on NG+
Optional mission tho, so I guess not everyone even fights her.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8WV3B4JU8Q
It does feel like a dance yeah

[楊玄。杨玄。LangrisserWWE]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tenshu:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tiasmoon:

Is that still on NG? She becomes even more amazing on NG+
Optional mission tho, so I guess not everyone even fights her.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8WV3B4JU8Q
It does feel like a dance yeah

If she is that powerful as an ally... I am pretty sure most people will just hold back and pew pew.

[Tenshu]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Menrva:

Im playing on NG+, already beat Dong Zhou, and repeatedly for a 5* to drop.

Even with all +8 light armor set and berserker buff, i rarely got one shotted by him..... or rather, i rarely got hit by anything except the knife throws.

You must have done something very wrong with your build.

I don't think it's a problem with a build but more getting frustrated too easily. I have a feeling if people that vent here, if they had recorded their attempts and watched it back they'd see almost none of the things they're complaining about were actually a thing.

[L.Kaldwin]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tenshu:

I don't think it's a problem with a build but more getting frustrated too easily. I have a feeling if people that vent here, if they had recorded their attempts and watched it back they'd see almost none of the things they're complaining about were actually a thing.

Quite possibly so, with a bit of exaggeration.

At least Dong Zhou is not as BS as Liubei. I don't have a problem beating him, but i have tons of problem trying to perfect score him in NG+. Just painful.

[Kashra Fall]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tenshu:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kashra Fall:

Because this conversation has to do with his NG+ variant. His grab does like 900 damage lol.

With Power Drop and full light armor and -2.4% damage received affix with 773 HP I can survive his grab at full HP Morale 25 on NG+ lol

That's a lot of variables to avoid a potential one shot =P.

[Lahoo Eckbert]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tiasmoon:

He never did that for me either. I'm sure you also call that ''extremely lucky''.

Yes that's also extremely lucky.
Here :

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kashra Fall:

This is a good example of how this boss variates.
You try to get use to his timing and then he does this.
https://clips.twitch.tv/AgileAgileBeaverDoubleRainbow-1V1rcufRp8o3b6dp

The above clip is his slow version of his grab, which he got me(My fault.)

However this one...

https://clips.twitch.tv/EncouragingPerfectYamKeyboardCat-eBoFwdsE4EPs1Rg1

Is a lot faster and he caught me mid animation of a hit haha. You can hear my audible surprise too.

I like this boss for that reason alone, he's unpredictable, but would that be deemed unfair? Depends on the person =P.

Sometimes when he finishes his combo(which is your only opportunity for a punish) he immediately goes for the grab, which is a oneshot.
Now before you say "that's an easy tell" sure it is when you are just watching. Not when you are focused on playing.

What should we call you defeating this boss first try in NG, then? ''skill difference''?

No, I just had the heal over time divine spirit equipped so I face tanked some of his stuff and him back, simple. So it is more of a luck difference. But then, I still would have defeated him in a couple of tries simply because he can't oneshot you in NG.

If I disagree with your arguments or stance because I consider them to be bad, does that make me a contrarian? Why dont you use a good argument or make good statement and we will see if I still contradict them. If I do, go ahead. Call me a contrarian and I will probably agree.

That doesn't make you a contrarian. You have no arguments, just opinions and your opinions don't have substance. Just put out there to oppose what I'm saying.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tenshu:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lahoo Eckbert:

Then you've been extremely lucky. Out of my 10 tries(beat him around 10-11) he did that 2 or three times on some of my good attempts.


That's a ♥♥♥♥♥ move too but I was able to react to that. It becomes a problem when he pulls that out when you are not expecting it.

His normal is either swing, swing, kick or swing, thrust, drill thrust from what I've experienced. The thing with his grab though is the dash itself is slow so whenever he reds you should back up a bit to see which startup it actually is.

Again no. Watch the below vids. He sometimes goes for the grab right after he finishes his combo when you are either healing or attacking him, making it impossible to avoid.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kashra Fall:

This is a good example of how this boss variates.
You try to get use to his timing and then he does this.
https://clips.twitch.tv/AgileAgileBeaverDoubleRainbow-1V1rcufRp8o3b6dp

The above clip is his slow version of his grab, which he got me(My fault.)

However this one...

https://clips.twitch.tv/EncouragingPerfectYamKeyboardCat-eBoFwdsE4EPs1Rg1

Is a lot faster and he caught me mid animation of a hit haha. You can hear my audible surprise too.

I like this boss for that reason alone, he's unpredictable, but would that be deemed unfair? Depends on the person =P.

Thanks for posting this. People don't believe me lmao.

[Lahoo Eckbert]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Menrva:

Im playing on NG+, already beat Dong Zhou, and repeatedly for a 5* to drop.

Even with all +8 light armor set and berserker buff, i rarely got one shotted by him..... or rather, i rarely got hit by anything except the knife throws.

You must have done something very wrong with your build.

Lying is bad. You should feel bad.
His grab into wake up glaive is oneshot.

[L.Kaldwin]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lahoo Eckbert:

Lying is bad. You should feel bad.
His grab into wake up glaive is oneshot.

What is the point of lying about my own experience? Still, i do not plan to get hit by any red or combo, because berserker buff will outrightly end me from 100 to 0, let alone a grab. It is still your fault for not deflecting that grab though. I handled those grabs by "Mikiri Counter" them.

I also just survived Liubei grab attack with a bit of health left, and Liubei should be even worse than Dong Zhou. No berserker buff though.

[Nöitalommi]

Had some trouble beating him in NG but managed to kill him on my 4th try in NG+.
I think he's one of the better bosses, only thing is, the arena could be little bit bigger.

[awanderingswordsman]

Then clearly do shorter punishes so you can be ready if he goes into the grab. I do honestly think he is probably the toughest boss on NG+ and his grab does oneshot if he is at 25 morale and you are at 20, but if you play the fight well, you'll will gain morale and he will lose it, oddly making the later parts of the fight easier.

Calling it "dishonest" and "embarrassing design" is hilarious though. A clear skill issue. if something is obvious watching, but not when you play, then focus more on watching the boss when you play. Sounds like you are overcommitting and overfocusing on your offense and this is one of the few fights that correctly punish that.

[ArcaneMaverick]

I made the same post a week ago as OP. He's not alone. It's like the D team at Team Ninja took all the worst aspects of Elden Ring boss combat design and dumped them here. Dong is a terrible fight and anyone who says otherwise doesn't know a thing about design.

[楊玄。杨玄。LangrisserWWE]

I don't know guys. First people complained that this game bosses with a few exception is easy. Then this thread. I am actually kinda of confused by people in general.

As weird as it may sound, I am actually happy for you guys.