So dissapointed

[knootewoot]

On Steam only 2.2% completed Darkwar and only 10% even defeated Darian.
Not sure if the achievements are always 100% correct though :)

[BukkakeBlaster]

Автор сообщения: DefectiveByDesign

I mentioned this before, comparing a similar thread on Boltgun. ROTT was never a "good" game, it was a novelty game even during it's release. I may have beat the original ONCE in my entire life, and don't have the motivation to do it again. Same with Wolf3d, and I got more enjoyment out of Catacombs3D. People played wolf engine games because there wasn't any alternative or for completionist nostalgia. Doom was the superior game that was actually fun and balanced.

ROTT has a lot of novelty. That's what people played it for, and multiplayer. If you ever beat the singleplayer, it was because you didn't have anything better to do. The shareware campaign was enjoyable enough, but the full game was a slog. The level design was only visually better than wolf3d, and you did get a map, but the secret hunting was tedious. The enemies and level design was pure masochism. You got that boss that doesn't die, and runs on a timer. Pretty much requires a walkthrough to beat the game. Do we even have modern walkthroughs available for it? Probably not. If people even get to the boss, they won't know what to do, and quit the game.

You also have the obtuse score system. Did you know you get points for destroying all the pickups and killing enemies without the guns (rockets only)? How exactly are you "supposed" to play it? It's a schizophrenic mess of a game that's pure masochism.

What QOL improvements does this remaster even offer? Is there better balancing?

Did you know Quake2 just released it's remaster FREE for Quake2 owners? The news of this alone destroys any PR momentum ROTT had, while Ludicrous cost more than the original or 2013 remake which was more fun. Quake2 is not even a hard game, but it's remaster includes a COMPASS to point you to the next objective, not to mention tons of actually good new content.

I don't expect the completion rate to ever beat Boltgun. The marketing is overshadowed by Quake 2. Everyone being "positive" about ROTT are the hardcore fan minority of users who played the original and don't admit the game's flaws. Except they look at the completion rate and ask "WHYYY" when the answer is obvious and staring them in the face. You can't slap a resolution bump on ROTT and pretend that fixes the game, if anything increased resolution shows the flaws more. There's no midi. Keyboard rebinding existed with the DOS version. Return of the Triad is also a FREE Doom mod. It's not exclusive content. You can get the majority of improvements (resolution) with a source port. Plus if cheating disables achievements, well, lol. You're gonna be lucky to hit 5% by next year.

You completely lost me at "2013 remake which was more fun".

[Solaron]

The game is long and difficult. The final boss, insane. The majority of levels in Dark War are maze like and hunt the switch levels. I finished Dark War only a few months ago but on my retro PC, for the first time ever--before that all I had completed was the shareware version of Rise of the Triad in the mid 90's.

So the 'only 2% have completed' makes perfect sense, especially now with the surprise release of Quake II Remastered which is absolutely amazing (love the compass btw, something ROTT needs).

[DefectiveByDesign]

Автор сообщения: Solaron

The game is long and difficult. The final boss, insane. The majority of levels in Dark War are maze like and hunt the switch levels. I finished Dark War only a few months ago but on my retro PC, for the first time ever--before that all I had completed was the shareware version of Rise of the Triad in the mid 90's.

So the 'only 2% have completed' makes perfect sense, especially now with the surprise release of Quake II Remastered which is absolutely amazing (love the compass btw, something ROTT needs).

This. It's not hard to figure out, basic common sense. But everybody is like, "I don't get it", "everything is fine" (dog in burning house), "Rott 2013 isn't better", etc. If you're not going to acknowledge reality and just wear nostalgia goggles, that makes it pretty hard to understand the stats.

You'd need to completely overhaul the game to make it good, better graphics, balancing, map system with hints for secrets, tips for understanding the score system, etc. The source code's been out for a while, and nobody bothered to improve the graphics or anything in the ports. It doesn't have the enthusiasm of id games. This remaster is probably the highest quality port it ever got, and people still aren't playing it to the end.

2013 was jank, but it started some memes like big john, had a superb soundtrack, and proved the viability of remaking retro games. It was a massive success for what it was. We wouldn't have a ludicrous edition without 2013. That said, why should I be surprised the people not understanding the 2% completion rate think 2013 was bad. They'd probably argue the sky is green and water is dry too.

The original game wasn't a success, it came out late with a dated engine and masochistic gameplay. People played other games, while ROTT was a novelty item that people only played the shareware demo of. How that makes it GOTY, is beyond me. I'm not saying a niche game is bad for being niche, it is what it is, but it's definitely not the best thing since sliced bread. Way too much copium. Kind of like how people defend Blizzard, when it's clearly not the same company it was.

[BurgerJoe]

might take longer for people to beat the game.
I supposed most people who play this game doesn't have summer vacation anymore,lol.

[micmotorheadst]

ROTT 2013 was a game that I was really looking forward to way back when it was new. Played three levels and dropped it. Same deal when I came back to it 5 years later. I just don't think it's fun, but I come back to the original game every single year. And that's not nostalgia. Nobody keeps playing an old game out of just nostalgia. If that's all you're playing a game for, you'll have had your fill after an hour.

[Kinkoz Sagan]

Автор сообщения: DefectiveByDesign

I mentioned this before, comparing a similar thread on Boltgun. ROTT was never a "good" game, it was a novelty game even during it's release. I may have beat the original ONCE in my entire life, and don't have the motivation to do it again. Same with Wolf3d, and I got more enjoyment out of Catacombs3D. People played wolf engine games because there wasn't any alternative or for completionist nostalgia. Doom was the superior game that was actually fun and balanced.

ROTT has a lot of novelty. That's what people played it for, and multiplayer. If you ever beat the singleplayer, it was because you didn't have anything better to do. The shareware campaign was enjoyable enough, but the full game was a slog. The level design was only visually better than wolf3d, and you did get a map, but the secret hunting was tedious. The enemies and level design was pure masochism. You got that boss that doesn't die, and runs on a timer. Pretty much requires a walkthrough to beat the game. Do we even have modern walkthroughs available for it? Probably not. If people even get to the boss, they won't know what to do, and quit the game.

You also have the obtuse score system. Did you know you get points for destroying all the pickups and killing enemies without the guns (rockets only)? How exactly are you "supposed" to play it? It's a schizophrenic mess of a game that's pure masochism.

What QOL improvements does this remaster even offer? Is there better balancing?

Did you know Quake2 just released it's remaster FREE for Quake2 owners? The news of this alone destroys any PR momentum ROTT had, while Ludicrous cost more than the original or 2013 remake which was more fun. Quake2 is not even a hard game, but it's remaster includes a COMPASS to point you to the next objective, not to mention tons of actually good new content.

I don't expect the completion rate to ever beat Boltgun. The marketing is overshadowed by Quake 2. Everyone being "positive" about ROTT are the hardcore fan minority of users who played the original and don't admit the game's flaws. Except they look at the completion rate and ask "WHYYY" when the answer is obvious and staring them in the face. You can't slap a resolution bump on ROTT and pretend that fixes the game, if anything increased resolution shows the flaws more. There's no midi. Keyboard rebinding existed with the DOS version. Return of the Triad is also a FREE Doom mod. It's not exclusive content. You can get the majority of improvements (resolution) with a source port. Plus if cheating disables achievements, well, lol. You're gonna be lucky to hit 5% by next year.

I have literally never played ROTT before now and I loved it enough to 100% the achievements. Granted, I played every campaign on Normal (aside from going back and getting the secret level exit I missed in the shareware episode, which I did on Hard instead just to see how much different things were), but still.

Game fun and decent at best. I say this from a fairly uninitiated standpoint. Complaining about the novelty comes across more like you can't roll with jank and enjoy a game regardless.

[DefectiveByDesign]

Автор сообщения: Kinkoz Sagan

I have literally never played ROTT before now and I loved it enough to 100% the achievements. Granted, I played every campaign on Normal (aside from going back and getting the secret level exit I missed in the shareware episode, which I did on Hard instead just to see how much different things were), but still.

Game fun and decent at best. I say this from a fairly uninitiated standpoint. Complaining about the novelty comes across more like you can't roll with jank and enjoy a game regardless.

I beat the original. It's not worth buying an overpriced remaster for barely any improvement. If I wanted a windows port, they already exist. What does this version offer over that? Achievements? They aren't worth the hassle of playing the game again, and definitely not for paying more than 2013 for the "privilege". I'd maybe buy it for $5, and still wouldn't have the motivation to complete it.

I have a boxed copy of You Are Empty bought retail. It's not about tolerating jank. The problem is ROTT is nothing but jank, which a remaster should have addressed, as well as increased texture resolution. At least have an option for AI upscaling or something. I had fun playing the shareware levels back when my PC was too slow for Quake, and multiplayer. I later on bought and finished the full game for nostalgia completionism, but that was the main motivation, because it was a slog. I already played the best parts of the game with the demo.

I'm not saying you can't have fun playing the game. It has a lot of unique charm, but that charm wears off. People didn't like ROTT over games of it's era, and they certainly don't have the patience for it today.

Let me give you a comparison example: Metroid on the NES. It was a product of it's time. Even then, it was not a fun kids game, and you needed a guide. Would it be possible to re-release Metroid today with NO improvements as a "remaster" on the Switch, with code saves? F NO. They remastered it on the GBA with everything updated, and Mario 3 was remastered on the SNES as well. Ludicrous Edition has done none of this. It's the same game with windows support and monitor resolution, but there's no big graphics or gameplay update. It's not Zero Mission, and it's not worth my time. If you just wanted to play ROTT on windows, you could buy the original, install a free source port, and save $10. That said, if upscaled textures were included, I'd consider buying it, and even play it. That would be a real improvement over the base game at least.

People aren't completing the game because it's not improved, it wasn't good then, and nobody has patience for it now. There's so much missed potential here from not putting work into actually remastering it with QOL improvements. This remaster is a slap in the face to actual remasters like the Quake games. Everyone is replaying Quake 2 right now, free if you owned the original, and nobody is talking about ROTT anymore. How does anyone not see this? It's not even about seeing it coming, because it came and went already, and now it's about seeing the aftermath dumpster fire, and I'm watching people stand in the dumpster, telling them they're in a dumpster fire, and they're pretending everything's fine. It's not fine. You got scammed. I think the disconnect is that mental disorder F2P games abuse when you pay money, and people don't want to admit they were conned so they keep playing and deny the problem. It's so prevalent nobody can see it anymore.

[micmotorheadst]

I like this sort of remaster. Stays true to the original experience but just makes things that bit more smooth and playable. I booted up the DOS version again and the original resolution felt like I was going blind. Of course I can adjust to it again, but the resolution bump is really, really nice. It's the small things that make this remaster special to me: The alternate guard sprites, the animated mug shots on the HUD, the multiple soundtrack variants, the new campaign, having the demo, original campaign and extreme rott all in one placce, etc...

But I wouldn't worry about whether your average gamer would like this game. It has always been one of those "cult following" type of games.

I also bought Enclave on ps4 recently just because. Aged? Yes. Badly aged? No. Same with ROTT. I'd rather have an actual sequel than a remaster that changes the game fundamentally.This version keeps the spirit of the game 100% intact and, as such, is a definitive way to play the game rather than an alternative to the original.

I don't care that this game isn't some big event that turns the gaming world upside down. Why would anyone care? Just play the game. Or don't. I will.

[armani]

Автор сообщения: DefectiveByDesign

The only people who think it's not a problem are the guys who like the Extreme ROTT expansion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ro61K5hw3Q
And what's the percentage of the player base there? Probably the guys who completed the game in the statistics, and who knows if they even like the remaster.

liked extreme rott (on easy mode at least) and the remaster and can confirm.

[Đeath’ş Aļļ | Horst Fuchs]

What a surprise. New ROTT players soon realise its not such classic shooter as is presented. I cant see any reason for remastering this thing. There is some free well working ROTT port around internet already. Commercial port better? OK, why not. BUT game itself simply isnt worth of porting and reselling.

I remember ROTT well when i played that in 1997. It was so so game in Doom II /Duke3D / Blood times. I would rate it 6/10 max in 1997. And shiny port almost 30 year later cant make it better. I finished that just once and never more.

ROTT is just mediocre comical violent wofensteinish werdo hybrid shooter with nazis, magic, insave weapons, wolfenstein like huge mazes, stupid and pointless coins collecting and insane number of jumping platforms, there were also some hardcore platforming only secret levels for really weird people,

Devs really tried to be original, but it was too weird for lot of people. Mix with platformer was too annoying and in combination with repetitive huge flat wolfenstein style levels little outdated.

[BukkakeBlaster]

Holy crap there are a lot of naysayers! This game definitely appeals to a smaller audience than, say, Duke3D or DOOM. ROTT definitely has quirks, but it's UNIQUE, and many of us enjoy it thoroughly. I've been enjoying this remaster. I am glad they put the time and effort into developing it, and I have ZERO regrets for paying $16 for it.

[Stoibs]

Give some of us a chance to catch up!

There'll be some finishing off Boltgun as the last most recent retro shooter (Let alone Quake 2 Remastered), I'm still several dozen hours deep into Jagged Alliance 3 and Baldur's gate 3, another story focused crowdfunded game of mine just came out that I'm invested in, by the end of August there will be atleast 3 or more things I've either backed or have heavy wishlisted to check out also.

We're approaching that Q3/Q4 time of the year when the release schedule gets stupid, and shared time between games gets divided.

Still having a blast, and I too can't agree with the negativity in here.
It's still 96% positive on Steam..

[DefectiveByDesign]

Автор сообщения: armani

Автор сообщения: DefectiveByDesign

The only people who think it's not a problem are the guys who like the Extreme ROTT expansion.

liked extreme rott (on easy mode at least) and the remaster and can confirm.

This is just confirming the point. The remaster appeals specifically to superfans, and they can't comprehend any negative aspect of the game. Not to mention many don't like 2013, when 2013 was better liked by the general public. I bought a GTX 780 just to play 2013. Which btw ended up a mistake, due to nvidia crippling the driver optimization, and I sold it to buy a Radeon 390, and been Radeon exclusive since due to Nvidia business practices. We're hitting a new wave of this with the 8-10GB 30 series and people switching to 7900 for VRAM / actual perf/$ over marketing scammery.

Автор сообщения: Đeath’ş Aļļ | Horst Fuchs

What a surprise. New ROTT players soon realise its not such classic shooter as is presented. I cant see any reason for remastering this thing. There is some free well working ROTT port around internet already. Commercial port better? OK, why not. BUT game itself simply isnt worth of porting and reselling.

I remember ROTT well when i played that in 1997. It was so so game in Doom II /Duke3D / Blood times. I would rate it 6/10 max in 1997. And shiny port almost 30 year later cant make it better. I finished that just once and never more.

ROTT is just mediocre comical violent wofensteinish werdo hybrid shooter with nazis, magic, insave weapons, wolfenstein like huge mazes, stupid and pointless coins collecting and insane number of jumping platforms, there were also some hardcore platforming only secret levels for really weird people,

Devs really tried to be original, but it was too weird for lot of people. Mix with platformer was too annoying and in combination with repetitive huge flat wolfenstein style levels little outdated.

100% 6/10 is what i'd rate it too. I'd give it bonus points for the novelty, but novelty is cool for a KID, and not what a grown ADULT cares about. The game does NOT respect your time as an adult. The port is not unique enough to be worth the price, especially vs FREE alternative ports.

Автор сообщения: BukkakeBlaster

Holy crap there are a lot of naysayers! This game definitely appeals to a smaller audience than, say, Duke3D or DOOM. ROTT definitely has quirks, but it's UNIQUE, and many of us enjoy it thoroughly. I've been enjoying this remaster. I am glad they put the time and effort into developing it, and I have ZERO regrets for paying $16 for it.

You got the general idea, but missed the ball for the remaster. It's not worth the price compared to just buying the original and you could buy 2013 with the saved difference. That said, there seems to be an announcement about a future bundle containing the series, but it isn't out, and doesn't say if buyers GET the bundle, or if that's a separate price point. The wording of "bundle" however generally means it's a different price and not included. I already own them, so there needs to be a discount for series owners. The Quake remasters are the gold standard for this, giving owners the remaster free, but I'd buy a discounted version after some feature patches.

Автор сообщения: Stoibs

Still having a blast, and I too can't agree with the negativity in here.
It's still 96% positive on Steam..

The only people buying it are super fans, and it's an echo chamber. Steam also doesn't do x/10 review score, it's up or down. I'd rate it positive too. The remaster deserves a positive review for delivering what they promised. I just don't think it's enough to actually buy full price, and my complaints about gameplay / graphics apply to the original. People are getting exactly what they paid for, no reason to buy it just to review bomb.

That said, these 96% positive review people have 2.2% completion rate. There is a massive disconnect of these people not admitting the base game is not as good as they pretend it is. Complete the game if you like it that much, otherwise the stats prove you bought it for other reasons like nostalgia or novelty.

[Stoibs]

Rott 2013 was 'generally liked by the public'..?
Thanks for the laugh, even the devs over on that forum admit it was bad, but atleast they have a good sense of humour about it.

Автор сообщения: DefectiveByDesign

Complete the game if you like it that much, otherwise the stats prove you bought it for other reasons like nostalgia or novelty.

I intend to, it's like you glossed over my post and cherry picked little pieces to fit your hilarious narrative.
Sorry, I'm still reeling over the thought of Rott 2013 being taken positively

[micmotorheadst]

Автор сообщения: DefectiveByDesign

That said, these 96% positive review people have 2.2% completion rate. There is a massive disconnect of these people not admitting the base game is not as good as they pretend it is. Complete the game if you like it that much, otherwise the stats prove you bought it for other reasons like nostalgia or novelty.

Wtf is with the attitude problem?

Anyway, like so many other people, I'm jumping into the new fatures first. That means the new campaign (which I'm almost through), workshop features (played many user maps already) and the editor (spent 60 hours in it by now). Not to mention that I'm playing multiple other games and working a full time job. ROTT has only been out for two weeks...

Add to that this important detail that can't be ignored: If you cheat at all, you don't get any achievements from that point on in the campaign you're playing. At least a lot of people who know the game well use cheats a lot, just to skip maps, activate EKG mode or change the music. I do this all the time so I only have the General Darian trophy in terms of campaign progression trophies.

The percentages wouldn't be high either way - non-AAA games often have quite low achievement percentages, but it makes sense that they're very low for ROTT for reasons listed above.