Cheaters everywhere

[Quinx]

Like the title says.

[Dane]

"They have clever people they can figure out a fix if they wanted, if that is."

These clever people are the ones who are responsible for all this BS.

[Ghostiq]

Originally posted by Rod:

Originally posted by Ghostiq:

That's true, I agree that people do it. Although there are a lot of pre-requisites to making that rigging happen successfully. I have myself met players in randoms that are just helping each other complete missions for campaigns, where they shoot one another to farm blocking damage, or similar, as an example. And in 100% cases, if you send that replay to WG support - they will both be banned for this.

Similar scenario is when you queue 9, 20, or even 30 accounts (must be a pretty strong old PC, but people managed to do it) - you need to have very low online to have high probability of getting into a game, and even then - if you are just farming damage, while all accounts are afk, and there is anyone else in the lobby - this person can send the replay to WG support and all other accounts will get banned.

Important moment here - if you by accident get into a rigged game with a lot of players being afk - do not shoot anyone who is AFK, as that would count as you rigging as well. Simply save the replay and send over to WG support.

The real problem that's hard to catch was with the cheat that allowed to live-stream all positions if you had 2 accounts on opposite teams in one game. That really gave strong advantage to the cheater, but as far as I know - everyone who was using it was indeed banned, and ever since the cheat didn't come back. It's pretty simple to detect actually, and if you suspect something like this - sending replay to WG support would yet again be very helpful in preventing it from becoming widespread.

I hope I covered all scenarios but I see your point of view on this one, I agree that rigging for marks or missions is a pretty stupid thing to do, and doing something like this just ruins the fun for everyone else, like with cheats.

They have clever people they can figure out a fix if they wanted, if that is.

There is no perfect anti cheat that will catch everyone. The best solution for now is a kernel level AC, but with a game as WoT it can be difficult, because game already allows for client-made modifications, that already change original game behaviour and are considered legal.

It's the difficulty of distinguishing between valid modifications and banned modifications: sometimes only with time it becomes clear that a particular mod gives an unfair advantage and must be considered a cheat.

At the same time if you consider behaviour-based anticheat then you might have a lot of false positives. There were plenty of similar incidents in other games, such as CS2 (when your sensitivity was high you were considered a cheater and banned). It only brings more complications.

In WoT two players can do the same thing, for example hit a blind shot. While a good player would hit it because they know a position is popular, an unexperienced player would hit it because a mod told them to. And from the game perspective it's pretty difficult to interpret the behaviour correctly.

Practically no game has developers that are ahead of cheaters: they always have to catch up. Unless they implement a kernel-based anticheat (which also has its cons, by the way), but for that WG would have to kill all the game mods and modding community.

But if you have better ideas then by any means, tell me what you think, if it's really valuable I will let developers know about it.

[waveless]

Also i have played like 300 games on arty and i can say that someone 100% have like "blind arty zones" ♥♥♥♥ on their pc's, couse theyre always in blind zones. Only reason im wrong is if only these is bots on 8+ lvls. So anyway this sucks. I am not talking that playing arty is good or wrong, im talking about fair play.
And its easy to prove - theyre standing pixel x pixel to my hit zone, just imagine seeing this in every game. And its like 50% of players(bots?)

[Rod]

Originally posted by Ghostiq:

Originally posted by Rod:

They have clever people they can figure out a fix if they wanted, if that is.

There is no perfect anti cheat that will catch everyone. The best solution for now is a kernel level AC, but with a game as WoT it can be difficult, because game already allows for client-made modifications, that already change original game behaviour and are considered legal.

It's the difficulty of distinguishing between valid modifications and banned modifications: sometimes only with time it becomes clear that a particular mod gives an unfair advantage and must be considered a cheat.

At the same time if you consider behaviour-based anticheat then you might have a lot of false positives. There were plenty of similar incidents in other games, such as CS2 (when your sensitivity was high you were considered a cheater and banned). It only brings more complications.

In WoT two players can do the same thing, for example hit a blind shot. While a good player would hit it because they know a position is popular, an unexperienced player would hit it because a mod told them to. And from the game perspective it's pretty difficult to interpret the behaviour correctly.

Practically no game has developers that are ahead of cheaters: they always have to catch up. Unless they implement a kernel-based anticheat (which also has its cons, by the way), but for that WG would have to kill all the game mods and modding community.

But if you have better ideas then by any means, tell me what you think, if it's really valuable I will let developers know about it.

They need to get rid of the mods and implement them offically. Its not an mmo we dont need mods i dont use any mods so they need kernel anti chest asap which is more important.


They also need to start stopping multiple ips accessing different accounts to stop rigging and ban use of VPN.


Get rid of the reasons people cheat as well, Visable winrates pr system is why they are cheating imo.

[Ghostiq]

Originally posted by Rod:

Originally posted by Ghostiq:

There is no perfect anti cheat that will catch everyone. The best solution for now is a kernel level AC, but with a game as WoT it can be difficult, because game already allows for client-made modifications, that already change original game behaviour and are considered legal.

It's the difficulty of distinguishing between valid modifications and banned modifications: sometimes only with time it becomes clear that a particular mod gives an unfair advantage and must be considered a cheat.

At the same time if you consider behaviour-based anticheat then you might have a lot of false positives. There were plenty of similar incidents in other games, such as CS2 (when your sensitivity was high you were considered a cheater and banned). It only brings more complications.

In WoT two players can do the same thing, for example hit a blind shot. While a good player would hit it because they know a position is popular, an unexperienced player would hit it because a mod told them to. And from the game perspective it's pretty difficult to interpret the behaviour correctly.

Practically no game has developers that are ahead of cheaters: they always have to catch up. Unless they implement a kernel-based anticheat (which also has its cons, by the way), but for that WG would have to kill all the game mods and modding community.

But if you have better ideas then by any means, tell me what you think, if it's really valuable I will let developers know about it.

They need to get rid of the mods and implement them offically. Its not an mmo we dont need mods i dont use any mods so they need kernel anti chest asap which is more important.


They also need to start stopping multiple ips accessing different accounts to stop rigging and ban use of VPN.


Get rid of the reasons people cheat as well, Visable winrates pr system is why they are cheating imo.

Perhaps they have to do it, but again, kernel level AC has its ups and downs too.

They have official mod website from where you can download verified mods and modpacks: each of them goes through a wgmods moderator and are tested on being legit. Banning all mods will make a lot of people unhappy, because there are things that are used by most of the playerbase: for instance in-battle viewing of your MOE and how much you need to keep it up.

Regarding VPN, you can't really easily track down if VPN is used or not. There's ways, but running it for every new connection is just not worth it. Besides, there are legit use cases of a VPN to play the game: I had to use it once because for some reason there was a broken route to the servers from my provider, but if I connect to a nearest country - new route will be used that is different and working fine.

Can't really remove PR system as it's the main reason a lot of people play the game too. Players like good stats, you shouldn't punish them for that, given that it exists for such a long time too (even before PR was introduced, people were already mad about all kinds of WN6/7/8/9...)

[Rod]

Originally posted by Ghostiq:

Originally posted by Rod:

They need to get rid of the mods and implement them offically. Its not an mmo we dont need mods i dont use any mods so they need kernel anti chest asap which is more important.


They also need to start stopping multiple ips accessing different accounts to stop rigging and ban use of VPN.


Get rid of the reasons people cheat as well, Visable winrates pr system is why they are cheating imo.

Perhaps they have to do it, but again, kernel level AC has its ups and downs too.

They have official mod website from where you can download verified mods and modpacks: each of them goes through a wgmods moderator and are tested on being legit. Banning all mods will make a lot of people unhappy, because there are things that are used by most of the playerbase: for instance in-battle viewing of your MOE and how much you need to keep it up.

Regarding VPN, you can't really easily track down if VPN is used or not. There's ways, but running it for every new connection is just not worth it. Besides, there are legit use cases of a VPN to play the game: I had to use it once because for some reason there was a broken route to the servers from my provider, but if I connect to a nearest country - new route will be used that is different and working fine.

Can't really remove PR system as it's the main reason a lot of people play the game too. Players like good stats, you shouldn't punish them for that, given that it exists for such a long time too (even before PR was introduced, people were already mad about all kinds of WN6/7/8/9...)

I will come back to this but last night i did an investigation if you will. Ive been looking at what goes on after dark. And if people are telling us there are no cheats or bots its an absoloute lie what i have seen myself is clear evidence of cheating.


First of all, The matchmaker at 4am is active, With who?!?! With players using bots! They dont talk and behave exactly like a bot. They are incredibly agressive and its clear the pathways for this bot are shared its one single bot program.


All the players at 4am are bots, They all go the same flank i watched them all go left and leave the entire right flank open. These players have pretty good PR too. And theres a few inactive tanks in base as well that are always dead. Someoneis shooting them early game.


An example the map where you go "hill" no one went hill i half way up the hill had to turn around and when i drove through base seen shots killing an afk japanese heavy. The odd thing was the entire team played in the dip on the right side. Ive never seen this since i played the beta.



Can you ask WG whats going o? None of the players have a bots icon beside them. Therefor ive found that this game is full of cheaters. Worldof Warcraft has the exact same issue people use Glider bot to farm battlegrounds for honor. In WOT players are farming credits to buy premium ammo.

[Ghostiq]

Originally posted by Rod:

Originally posted by Ghostiq:

Perhaps they have to do it, but again, kernel level AC has its ups and downs too.

They have official mod website from where you can download verified mods and modpacks: each of them goes through a wgmods moderator and are tested on being legit. Banning all mods will make a lot of people unhappy, because there are things that are used by most of the playerbase: for instance in-battle viewing of your MOE and how much you need to keep it up.

Regarding VPN, you can't really easily track down if VPN is used or not. There's ways, but running it for every new connection is just not worth it. Besides, there are legit use cases of a VPN to play the game: I had to use it once because for some reason there was a broken route to the servers from my provider, but if I connect to a nearest country - new route will be used that is different and working fine.

Can't really remove PR system as it's the main reason a lot of people play the game too. Players like good stats, you shouldn't punish them for that, given that it exists for such a long time too (even before PR was introduced, people were already mad about all kinds of WN6/7/8/9...)

I will come back to this but last night i did an investigation if you will. Ive been looking at what goes on after dark. And if people are telling us there are no cheats or bots its an absoloute lie what i have seen myself is clear evidence of cheating.


First of all, The matchmaker at 4am is active, With who?!?! With players using bots! They dont talk and behave exactly like a bot. They are incredibly agressive and its clear the pathways for this bot are shared its one single bot program.


All the players at 4am are bots, They all go the same flank i watched them all go left and leave the entire right flank open. These players have pretty good PR too. And theres a few inactive tanks in base as well that are always dead. Someoneis shooting them early game.


An example the map where you go "hill" no one went hill i half way up the hill had to turn around and when i drove through base seen shots killing an afk japanese heavy. The odd thing was the entire team played in the dip on the right side. Ive never seen this since i played the beta.



Can you ask WG whats going o? None of the players have a bots icon beside them. Therefor ive found that this game is full of cheaters. Worldof Warcraft has the exact same issue people use Glider bot to farm battlegrounds for honor. In WOT players are farming credits to buy premium ammo.

Likely you are right. But as I said, the best way to deal with it is to send such replays to WG support. They don't hesitate to ban accounts that take advantage of low online at night. Unfortunately they don't really have a system in place to catch them automatically.

I can suggest when submitting a replay, make sure to indicate why it disrupted your gameplay and give as many details as possible to maximise chance of punishment.

[Ghostiq]

And I wouldn't call them cheaters btw, I'd say it's more towards rigging (which is also wrong and punishable, but originally we were talking about cheats specifically). This is just bot accounts.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Ghostiq:

And I wouldn't call them cheaters btw, I'd say it's more towards rigging (which is also wrong and punishable, but originally we were talking about cheats specifically). This is just bot accounts.

Yea rigging would be right but the bot programs a cheat in itself. I do not record my replays as i never had a reason to i thought it used HDD space or a small performance loss. If i were to record this, I would be reporting nearly the entire team. There was me and another human in the chat we talked about bots but everyone else was a bot using illegal program.