how to deal with baiken's parry?

[Hellhounfd3223]

I think it's the Hirragi. Anyone got anything? I honestly don't understand what I am supposed to do against parries esp baiken's. I mostly play Ram so I kind of mid-range poke from neutral alot, and I always get screwed over when they do this. On like Abba I just....try and forget it exists honestly, just always poke in weird directions and never walk up to her and 5s poke cause she's gonna use it if I do. Baiken's parry is too hard to deal with though cause she has full mobiliity 24/7.

[natedogthecat]

Throws universally beat parries, so either you bait the parry and punish when they're recovering, or you throw them out of the parry.

[Lysamus]

If you do eat a few parries in the match, your opponent might become more reliant on that tool. You can use that conditioning to your advantage by feinting your offense to bait a parry, then punish on their recovery.

If you're getting caught by parry a lot, it indicates you have a pattern in your play that your opponent is exploiting. Try to be aware of your own patterns and leverage them to your advantage.

[AxolotlBaiken]

She can't roman cancel parry anymore so just bait out a parry and punish and you can turn the parry mind game into a two way street.

If you make her think, wait are they going to run up and grab me on oki, jump to bait grab, or are they going to use a meaty c.S then now you have a way better chance of winning interactions with her instead of running up and hitting a slash button to get parried because she's going to whiff and get punished.

showing your opponent that you are willing to counter the parry is almost enough to shut it down completely if you aren't giving easy parries anymore as they'll just eat damage for a bad callout.

[Hellhounfd3223]

Originally posted by natedogthecat:

Throws universally beat parries, so either you bait the parry and punish when they're recovering, or you throw them out of the parry.

well thats the opposite of useful for pretty obvious reasons

[natedogthecat]

Originally posted by Hellhounfd3223:

Originally posted by natedogthecat:

Throws universally beat parries, so either you bait the parry and punish when they're recovering, or you throw them out of the parry.

well thats the opposite of useful for pretty obvious reasons

How is it useless? You asked how to beat Baiken's parry, and I said how to beat her parry with any character. Genuinely asking btw, cause I don't really understand what you mean by useless here.

[Twright44]

play potemkin and command grab her for even thinking about parrying

[natedogthecat]

Originally posted by Twright44:

play potemkin and command grab her for even thinking about parrying

*play Potemkin and command grab her for thinking for more than a few milliseconds

[Twright44]

Originally posted by natedogthecat:

Originally posted by Twright44:

play potemkin and command grab her for even thinking about parrying

*play Potemkin and command grab her for thinking for more than a few milliseconds

Play Potemkin and command grab for choosing to fight you

[Emerald Lance]

Originally posted by Hellhounfd3223:

Originally posted by natedogthecat:

Throws universally beat parries, so either you bait the parry and punish when they're recovering, or you throw them out of the parry.

well thats the opposite of useful for pretty obvious reasons

Even though you play a character that excels in long range disjointed pokes, you can't rely solely on those pokes if they keep getting blown up by parries. You have to change up your game plan and try things that may be risky and dangerous. Even though throwing involves getting closer than you may think Ramlethal wants to be, it is one of the better answers to parry spam. It isn't too hard to setup either: echoing my previous advice, you can run up to ideal poke range and then simply not swing, but instead crouch block. Make the Baiken player THINK you're going to swing, then go for the throw. Another way to set it up is after a jump in via j.H or j.D, or potentially even just an empty jump. Not only does throw beat parry outright, but it also leads to a safe jump with j.S, making it a very powerful answer (if she tries to parry the safe jump, you can start empty jumping to fake the safe jump and then throw again as soon as you land, basically leaving her in a throw loop until she guesses right).

Alternatively, if you must poke, you can do so reactively instead of proactively. Instead of sticking f.S out as soon as you can, wait for a second and try to hit her recovering from parry. Or, if you see her whiff parry from your ideal poke range, you can dauro into a full combo punish.

Always remember that nothing in fighting games is unbeatable. That goes for your opponents, but also for you. Any answer you might come to for dealing with her parries, she can then adapt to and beat with something else, which you will in turn need to adapt to and beat with something else, which she can then adapt to and beat with something else, etc, etc. The ideal "back and forth" that makes these games exciting is born from that constant adaptation; the player who wins the match is the player who finds something that their opponent can't figure out how to beat, and that's going to be different for every player.

TL;DR, if your pokes aren't working, you gotta figure out something else, and throw is a good option.

[ice]

have u considered not mashing buttons for a tiny fraction of a second

[WatrWizz]

If you are losing to baiken parry in neutral then that is the biggest self report

[Hellhounfd3223]

What are you supposed to do as Ram if not Poke? Like I don't follow anything you are saying. She can see me throw an attack and parry in realtime to counter it, she doesn't have to plan ahead. She'll throw it out instead of blocking during tighter exchanges when she has no idea what attack I'm throwing out yet...she parried my 2s ffs. What am I supposed to giveup my turn randomly to catch her in the act sometimes? That's not a thing, there is no way that could possibly be a thing in this game.

[natedogthecat]

Originally posted by Hellhounfd3223:

What are you supposed to do as Ram if not Poke? Like I don't follow anything you are saying. She can see me throw an attack and parry in realtime to counter it, she doesn't have to plan ahead. She'll throw it out instead of blocking during tighter exchanges when she has no idea what attack I'm throwing out yet...she parried my 2s ffs. What am I supposed to giveup my turn randomly to catch her in the act sometimes? That's not a thing, there is no way that could possibly be a thing in this game.

Ram is so much more than just her pokes, sure it's arguably the strongest part of her kit, but her point-blank game is insanely strong, especially in regards to strike/throw. Also, most of Ram's main pokes aren't react-able, so the Baiken player isn't reacting to them, they're just reading your incredibly predictable playstyle, so either change how you're playing, or just deal with it.

[Emerald Lance]

Originally posted by Hellhounfd3223:

What are you supposed to do as Ram if not Poke? Like I don't follow anything you are saying. She can see me throw an attack and parry in realtime to counter it, she doesn't have to plan ahead. She'll throw it out instead of blocking during tighter exchanges when she has no idea what attack I'm throwing out yet...she parried my 2s ffs.

I promise, your opponent is not reacting on sight to Ramlethal's 11 frame f.S or her 10 frame 2S; the average human reaction time is roughly 15 frames, and even at that speed (or in the rare cases of people reacting at slightly faster speeds) humans cannot consistently react correctly. If those moves are consistently getting parried, then it means that your opponent has identified that you like to lean on them and is proactively planning their parries ahead of time, because they know that you will swing with one of those buttons. To beat it, you need to learn the power of doing nothing: identify when the opponent has started consistently parrying your attacks, and then on the next opportunity you have to swing, instead crouch and block for just quick moment (less than a second) and see what your opponent does. Make this adjustment, and you will see your opponent whiff a parry.

As for them parrying during your pressure, when fighting Baiken or Anji or anybody with a reversal, the onus is on you to structure your pressure around the knowledge that they can escape at any time. Against those characters, I like to purposely stop my pressure early to see how they react; if they attempt a reversal then I block it and get a free counter hit combo, if they do nothing then it's still my turn so I go back to pressuring them, with the added bonus that now I know whether to expect them to lean on THEIR strong options, now I know how they will use their OWN tools to try and counter what I'm doing. By being patient and watching my opponents, I'm able to condition them passively through my understanding of their defense as well as actively through my application of my own offense.

This all comes from simply choosing strategically when to do nothing. And doing nothing is still just one answer. And because everything has an answer, then relying too heavily on a single tool (in this case Ramlethal's good pokes) puts the player in a position where they aren't equipped to overcome a situation where that tool no longer works, which is where you're finding yourself now.

[ice]

rams gapless pressure is so auto and im not sure she has a single button that doesn't fill half the screen

how you would have this problem with ram of all idk