Let's talk about Dizzy's new design...

[osricen]

First of all, I'm a massive Dizzy fan, since GGX, and I'm very happy and grateful she's finally coming to this latest game. I'm sure we all Dizzy fans will have a blast playing as her.

That said, about her new design... I'm not saying she's been censored (that might or not be the case) but I feel she's lost her identity a little bit too much.
I know she's a queen now, she looks BEAUTIFUL in the concept art, but: was it necessary to change and cover her this much?

Let me elaborate:
Dizzy is my favorite character in fighting games. When I talk about her with people, I always say she's this heavy metal inspired monster girl (Gear, yeah) that looks super powerful and intimidating, but has a heart of gold, the purest of thoughts, and loves every living creature on Earth... nonetheless, she could make the End of Times happen if she ever wanted to (but she never will).
Dizzy is about contrasts. She's DANGEROUS, but harmless. Beautiful and sexy, but innocent and loving. Awesome to look at in battle, but hard to play and master.
Of course now she's matured, we already saw that in Xrd Rev 2, but I don't think she would leave her old self that far away in the past.
In Xrd Rev 2 she wore an elegant dress and then, before coming into battle, it turned into her awesome and characteristic fighting attire, a brand new one, but similar enough to her X's original.

Well, that's just me.
I hope her designers can achieve a good balance between Queen Dizzy and Good Old Dizzy until she arrives, in therms of visual identity, gameplay, and even acting.

[Genji]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lysamus:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Genji:

Correction on my end: Male-oriented (i.e. fanservice directed towards straight male players) stopped after Baiken.

Would depend on what constitutes "fan service" to the viewer I imagine. My thoughts on the matter:

"Pleasing to the cis hetero male eye" = Bridget (Cute as a button. And yes, I'm well aware . . . did I stutter?)

"Suitable for sexual congress" = Elphelt (Can you imagine the bedroom noises?)

I suspect Lucy is also going to be hawt in S4. That's 1 guaranteed coom per season pass. Pretty good service for one demographic I'd say.

I think you could make the argument bridget was designed to bring in a different audience, and that is exactly what happened. After evo 2022, the GG fanbase blew up with bridget's announcement. For better or worse.

Elphelt was covered up a fair bit from her previous design. I'm not a huge fan of the character either way to be honest, but it is what it is. The last character who was female/woman to not be covered up was in Season 1, with Baiken... and we all know the endless internet spitstorm that caused. I assume ASW pays close attention to the western responses, and passed along the unhappiness over Baiken's design to daisuke and that explains why they nixed the boobage going forward. Does it really matter...? Not really, but it did happen.

[Lysamus]

That "different audience" has likely been with the franchise since its inception. Have you seen the older Guilty Gear art work? Even Zato wouldn't be blind to those ♥♥♥♥-erotic vibes.

Not surprising I think, given the Rock n Roll theme of the franchise. Rock has historically been a counter culture phenomenon, and is not foreign to challenging gender or sexual norms throughout its history.

I think Daisuke and team have done a decent job of evoking that theme in Strive, alongside the "sex & drugs" elements often paired with Rock n Roll (as called out previously by others, plenty of sexy women and men in Guilty Gear still. If you won't even glance at post Baiken ladies, Jack-o, Baiken, I-no, Millia, Gio and Ram stand ready to receive their your cooming. No, I didn't forget to mention May. I most certainly did not forget).

[matteste]

It was not really surprising given how they have acted with the game up until now. They have just being going hard on sanding down everything about the Guilty Gear we used to love for the sake of mass market appeal. Thus, anything that can be seen as even remotely questionable has to go. And that includes anything that alludes to the series past heavy metal spirit, Dizzy's design just being the latest target in a long line of stuff that has been hit.

I had predicted this would happen long ago, and that is perhaps the really sad thing here. That they have gotten this predictable.
(And all of this before getting into how her and Venom's gameplay will the neutered)

The stuff we used to associate with Guilty Gear in the past is now only superficial and seemingly included out of obligation for the name more than anything else.

[Ω Yukich]

Given how much there are threads about new design I just gotta drop this bomb:
I like how SF6 handles wokesism
-Here's our new designs for every old character which feels normal, modern and stylish
-Oh no, cringe, too much censorship!
-But wait, we also have alt.skins for those chars! So here's your Cammy with her butt all over the screen

I wish Strive did the same, after seeing Doom Slayer mod for Strive over Sol - Im convinced its not THAT hard to make skins in this game (also Granblue already did prove that)

[osricen]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ω Yukich:

Given how much there are threads about new design I just gotta drop this bomg:
I like how SF6 handles wokesism
-Here's our new designs for every old character which feels normal, modern and stylish
-Oh no, cringe, too much censorship!
-But wait, we also have alt.skins for those chars! So here's your Cammy with her butt all over the screen

I wish Strive did the same, after seeing Doom Slayer mod for Strive over Sol - Im convinced its not THAT hard to make skins in this game (also Granblue already did prove that)

Alternate skins for characters, evoking their old, more edgy styles, would be amazing (even if they make us pay for that, which would be the case). That way, discussions like this would take no place, I believe.
In the case of GG, because of the way it's designed and animated, that's a really long shot, though. :-(
But not impossible...

[osricen]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Genji:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von osricen:

I couldn't have said it the way you did, my friend and I agree. I'm trying to see the "positives", but I actually find Strive very "tame" in many aspects as well and really lacking in others. Even though I grew to accept it for what it is, the last true GG for me was Xrd Rev 2 and I ALWAYS go back to it. Pleasing western audiences of today is something no game should aim to, especially games for grown ups and not children. That's why admire Stellar Blade's devs and celebrate that game's huge success.

I get why they did it, I just find it loses some of her appeal.

GG in general has honestly been going downhill since after Xrd. Hell, even Xrd lost a lot of that "edgy", grungy rock/metal feel that PSX and the XX series had. I've been a fan of GG for longer than most of strive's fanbase has been alive and I vastly prefer the style, look, sound and feel of XX and even the original Missing Link. For me, Reload will always be the pinnacle of what GG embodies.

Dizzy being covered/censored/whatever is just the most recent nail in the proverbial coffin. GG used to be cool, now it's just some boring, uninspired zoomer slop. IMO of course.

I'm in the older side of the fanbase too, maybe not since the OG, but at least since PS2's X. Subtle changes are imperceptible. For instance, the removal of blood, it never bugged me. Xrd stayed true to the previous ones in the most important aspects and even went higher with others (those AMAZING instakills, for instance). Not to mention, it was a revolutionary game in terms of visuals.
Strive, on the other hand, aggressively changed everything to appeal to masses, competitive gamers, IDK. No more gatling combos because MP reasons, the same with instakills, LACKING tons of single player modes and options, not even cutscenes or images for prologues and endings (and the worst story mode in the franchise, except for Baiken and Ram's DLC short film, which is amazing).
Here's hoping for a Strive Rev 2 or for the next entry to be a little more considerate to old GG fans and casual gamers who want to put tons of hours finishing Arcade mode to see cool endings, unlocking items on the gallery with in-game money that's not tied to MP, reaching the end of M.O.M... and seeing riske heavy metal edgy characters with interesting stories jumping across the screen with flashes and bangs all over them.

[HGhaleon]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von osricen:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Genji:

I get why they did it, I just find it loses some of her appeal.

GG in general has honestly been going downhill since after Xrd. Hell, even Xrd lost a lot of that "edgy", grungy rock/metal feel that PSX and the XX series had. I've been a fan of GG for longer than most of strive's fanbase has been alive and I vastly prefer the style, look, sound and feel of XX and even the original Missing Link. For me, Reload will always be the pinnacle of what GG embodies.

Dizzy being covered/censored/whatever is just the most recent nail in the proverbial coffin. GG used to be cool, now it's just some boring, uninspired zoomer slop. IMO of course.

I'm in the older side of the fanbase too, maybe not since the OG, but at least since PS2's X. Subtle changes are imperceptible. For instance, the removal of blood, it never bugged me. Xrd stayed true to the previous ones in the most important aspects and even went higher with others (those AMAZING instakills, for instance). Not to mention, it was a revolutionary game in terms of visuals.
Strive, on the other hand, aggressively changed everything to appeal to masses, competitive gamers, IDK. No more gatling combos because MP reasons, the same with instakills, LACKING tons of single player modes and options, not even cutscenes or images for prologues and endings (and the worst story mode in the franchise, except for Baiken and Ram's DLC short film, which is amazing).
Here's hoping for a Strive Rev 2 or for the next entry to be a little more considerate to old GG fans and casual gamers who want to put tons of hours finishing Arcade mode to see cool endings, unlocking items on the gallery with in-game money that's not tied to MP, reaching the end of M.O.M... and seeing riske heavy metal edgy characters with interesting stories jumping across the screen with flashes and bangs all over them.

As much as I agree with most of this, the next game I doubt will be a return to form or semblance of previous games. The vision is clear and Daisuke even said the next game he plans to make even easier because he feels Strive is still too difficult. ASW knew it was going to throw away its old fan base with all intentions of the new generation taking over and dictating the future of the series. The soul of the series in this game has honestly been stripped to a shell of its former self which is heartbreaking to see and I'm sure it will get worse before it gets better.

They should of just called this game a new IP instead of using Guilty Gear. I would of respected that a lot more than what they did. While XX was the pinnacle of the series, Xrd didn't jump off the deep end like Strive did.

[Ω Yukich]

^Even MORE easier?
Are we talking about Guilty Gear Cross Tag Battle at this moment?

[Lysamus]

It's possible they might simplify Dizzy/Venom to fit within Strive's engine. Alternatively, Strive also gave us Asuka, so there's still potential for a complex re-interpretation of either or both characters.

My guess is Venom will remain complex (as that's been pretty core to his appeal for a long time) while Dizzy might be made more accessible (given she's likely the character selling the S4 pass for most GG fans & the game is hurting for viable zoning options in general).

[matteste]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ω Yukich:

Given how much there are threads about new design I just gotta drop this bomg:
I like how SF6 handles wokesism
-Here's our new designs for every old character which feels normal, modern and stylish
-Oh no, cringe, too much censorship!
-But wait, we also have alt.skins for those chars! So here's your Cammy with her butt all over the screen

I wish Strive did the same, after seeing Doom Slayer mod for Strive over Sol - Im convinced its not THAT hard to make skins in this game (also Granblue already did prove that)

Not really about "wokesism" (even if that BS with Bridget is a thing (I am talking about the sloppy retcon stuff, get your mind out of the gutter)) but it is more that they seem intent on sanding away that "edge" that has always been so iconic for the series.
Characters are made more bland and generic to be more digestable, stuff such as religious iconography is scrubbed as is anything else that someone could see as problematic, the strange ones are either made more normal or simply creepy, and then there was that new character they showed off that honestly looks like they belong to an entierly different series.
You can be quote unquote "woke" and still have that kind of edge.
Strive's real sin is more how it is dead set for mass market appeal in a series that is anything but mass marketable.
And all that before getting into the gameplay and how that was neutered.

And we know from interviews that all this stuff was no accident. Daisuke himself has pretty much gone out of his way to state how he wants to "destroy" Guilty Gear and how he in general can come across as almost condescending towards the older fans.
Strive is basically all about discarding what old fans loved, and discarding the fanbase itself, to chase the glorious cash.

[Ω Yukich]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von matteste:

Snip

You needn't tell me all that, we all know Strive is barely a Guilty Gear game at this point
I still will never forgive them for what they transformed Testament into, gameplay and visual wise

You know its funny, they are definetely want to censor some characters like Dizzy
But then again we have Baiken and her 3 heads and no one cares like at all
Giant breasts - okay
Battle Bikini - hell nah brother

As for the gameplay - its dumb and its becoming boring really fast but hey, brainrot loves that and that is why the game had so much success

Daisuke basically betrayed his own child, said to him goodbye after all those years and put a gun at its head unless he dressed as a girl for a "mass appeal" (lmao just like Bridget)
Remember when Daisuke actually made music by himself?
Remember when he said Strive is going to be More Metal In The Future?
Remember when he actually compared himself to Sol and wanted everything around him to be as cool as Sol?

People would say - its character development
I'd say you do not need a development if you were already perfect

[ice]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0GNS6F44wE

[matteste]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ω Yukich:

You needn't tell me all that, we all know Strive is barely a Guilty Gear game at this point

Yea, it is like the few GG elements still present are only there out of some kind of obligation to create the illusion that it is still the same series. And it wouldn't surprise at this point if Daisuke wanted to get rid of even those small fragments.

[Vassago Rain]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Genji:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Vassago Rain:

I don't know if you know, but there are impaled giant skeletons in Sol's stage, and Xrd was the milqtoast family friendly guilty gear, not strive.

>the fanservice stopped.
Yes, Sin, Bridget, and Elphelt never released.

Edit: two for writing a wall of text. Try making it interesting next time.

Correction on my end: Male-oriented (i.e. fanservice directed towards straight male players) stopped after Baiken.

Sin, bridget, Johnny and so forth are all there an intact, yes. Hell, Slayer now disrobes for no apparent reason during his punch super. Why? God knows.

Guilty gear was never big on fanservice to begin with, but you'd know that if you'd been around as long as you say you have. Baiken wasn't fanservice until she was completely remade for Xrd Rev, and then le big booba so hot omg unff bully me Baiken-chan magically became her only defining characteristic.

Slayer punches out of his clothes because that's something they wanted to do when he was first made in X2, but couldn't at the time. They even talked about it when they released him for strive.

[Nauct]

Coomers praying she's sexy. Me too guys