the magic research boxes

[stupid btich]

the datoid system is a little silly and a lot tedious

on the silly front: put gears in magic science box and learn how to plant grain
on the tedious front: devote 2-3 work stations (and people) to making gears and transistors to make the magic science boxes happy for a few hours to get the basic research levels done

having to devote resources to research is good but having to just burn time and materials is a bad system, something like building processor banks to speed up background research tasks would be more palatable. maybe having occasional material study/analysis/prototyping as a resource consumer would work but sacrificing my silicone to the magic box is like a toothache

[Stellar Remnant]

Yeah, I greatly dislike this 'research' system. Especially considering how many researches are needed to even have basic quality of life and that's hundreds of resources down the drain that are not easily replaced.

It really should work like Rimworld's research system instead.

[spajus]

I already rewrote the research system once, the old version was using electricity and time. Most people disliked it, including myself. The current system is inspired by Factorio, where you have to produce science packs from common ingredients. But unlike in Factorio, where you have to wait for the science packs to get consumed over time in research facilities, you collect the "datoids" and use them instantly to unlock the research of your choice. It is less grindy in that regard.

But just like in Factorio, you can and should scale your factory to produce things faster. If you try to go through the whole game with just one data harvester, it will of course be slow, it is so by design.

While new system is not perfect, and it will surely need more balancing over time, I don't think I'll be changing it significantly. The majority of feedback I received about the new research system is positive, but there will always be someone who wants something different. Unfortunately it is impossible to please everyone.

[Stellar Remnant]

Originally posted by spajus:

I already rewrote the research system once, the old version was using electricity and time. Most people disliked it, including myself. The current system is inspired by Factorio, where you have to produce science packs from common ingredients. But unlike in Factorio, where you have to wait for the science packs to get consumed over time in research facilities, you collect the "datoids" and use them instantly to unlock the research of your choice. It is less grindy in that regard.

But just like in Factorio, you can and should scale your factory to produce things faster. If you try to go through the whole game with just one data harvester, it will of course be slow, it is so by design.

While new system is not perfect, and it will surely need more balancing over time, I don't think I'll be changing it significantly. The majority of feedback I received about the new research system is positive, but there will always be someone who wants something different. Unfortunately it is impossible to please everyone.

game start option to choose which research system is preferred

[Lasercar]

I don't mind the current research system, but this did give me an idea.

What if
Research is done by humans (and the research station starts out unlocked ofc).
Dataoids are only needed once theory/research is complete to test it (with the amount needed reduce by say, 75%, though with crafting time increased by 25% or so they're not crafted too early before they're needed for the current and future research).
After which, you process the results with your gpu.

This research system would be an alternative to the current one.

[stupid btich]

Originally posted by spajus:

I already rewrote the research system once, the old version was using electricity and time. Most people disliked it, including myself. The current system is inspired by Factorio, where you have to produce science packs from common ingredients. But unlike in Factorio, where you have to wait for the science packs to get consumed over time in research facilities, you collect the "datoids" and use them instantly to unlock the research of your choice. It is less grindy in that regard.

But just like in Factorio, you can and should scale your factory to produce things faster. If you try to go through the whole game with just one data harvester, it will of course be slow, it is so by design.

While new system is not perfect, and it will surely need more balancing over time, I don't think I'll be changing it significantly. The majority of feedback I received about the new research system is positive, but there will always be someone who wants something different. Unfortunately it is impossible to please everyone.

while something like this works for factorio it doesnt work for this game
in factorio everything is directly under your control and acts exactly how you set it up to, its a set of dominoes perfectly lined up
in stardeus im flicking a marble down hill, the path taken and bumps and turns are uncontrollable, is that human going to make the transistor or is he going to wander around doing nothing on the other side of the ship for a whole day and sleep outside of an airlock before making the transistor?
i like the uncontrollable stupid humans but not when they are the inch thick condom between me and my research

the research system isnt game ruining its just a twinging pain i would rather not touch

[spajus]

When you mention Transistors, after unlocking the Assembler, you can make them there without humans. The only datoids that humans are currently required for are Pytho and Biotic, as those are produced in Research Stations that have to be manned by humans. In late game you can build a Beta Wave Transceiver that will allow setting job priorities for humans and giving them direct orders.

I agree that human stupidity and inability to assign tasks to them until late game is something that makes research more difficult, but I'm working on new AI and mechanics as we speak. The next major update will introduce an "AI Alignment" mechanic, where humans will obey your orders if you take good care of them. Some of them will obey you regardless of that with help of certain traits.

[Dedmoin]

I am still early in my current games, which is also my very first time i play the full game so I dont know how research is in higher tiers but until now the system is fine for me.

I am not sure what the complains are about exactly.
Is it that research costs materials or because it takes so much time?
I think in Rimworld research does not need materials but it will need time and labor.

I am fine with the current research system in Stardeus it gives a feeling of progression that is needed to advance in technology.
For higher tiers, more time is needed. I can build more data harvesters (I think that's the name) to shorten the time for research, which needs more materials, which I have to first ensure there is a steady flow of it coming in.
I think this is good for new players to have time to focus on one thing after another and not being overwhelmed by constant new breakthroughs, buildings, mechanics.

I can also understand experienced players or players who want to enjoy mid/late game in their 10th Stardeus game and who don't want to go through the time consuming hurdles at the start of the game once gain.
Maybe a game option as part of the difficulty settings to disable reseach completely and every tech is available from the beginning would help?
Or to reduce the research costs and time. Maybe with less reduction in higher tiers, eg -90% tier 1, -70% tier 2, ...

Even nowadays research is done by 'magic boxes'. Protein folding uses simluations. Also some research for new materials is done in simulations. And didn't AI found new antibiotics recently?!
With enought computing power and accurate definitions, everything can be simulated/researched virtually, in theory.
At least this sounds more plausible to me than a guy with medieval knowledge standing at a (research) table to invent combustion engines (or whatever) by just thinking about it (and as a side effect also master thermodynamics, invent new materials and their processing, chemistry, ....)