Neco-Arc saved the game and then killed it

[Warxa]

Neco-Arc was added to the game due to her internet popularity. She was meant to bring in new players, she succeeded at that but failed at keeping them.

Neco-Arc fans bought the game only for her and struggled to win a single match due to how bad she is, so they ended up quitting, probably assuming the game as a whole is bad because she was their first impression of the game.

Some didn't know that she was made intentionally bad. Some did but she was the only character they cared about so they refused to play as anyone else.

She should have been made into a viable character.

[Spicy Crab]

no

[Red]

Joke characters are more often than not bad, if people don't get that then the joke's on them in a way.

But yeah, that was predictable. Even if Neco-Arc was viable, it wouldn't solve the problem of casual players hopping online only to get steamrolled and quit the game, unless she was actually broken and could win by mashing like there's no tomorrow (which would be another problem). So it isn't surprising at all to see people dropping the game past the Neco-Arc release hype: some were here only for that, some expected her to be better and didn't try other characters out, and few of them actually kept playing.

[Shuvo]

no

[L]

A few thousand come back with every big update. The last one had more people than usual because Lumina had its first sale, and they also finally removed compulsory auto combo, and nerfed shield. So it's not clear how many played for Neco Arc.

That aside, the game dying again is normal. Fighting game player count always trickles down because there's no reason for people to actively sit in the game. Especially if the matchmaking options have as many problems as Lumina's. Keeping people in-game is something many other online games desperately try to do, via dailies and limited events. Fighting games also rely heavily on the player's desire to improve themselves, rather than in-game progression.

I imagine most people want to start the game, jump into a few quick matches and then go do something else. Can't do that in Lumina most of the time because everyone's super picky about opponents, netplay antenna changes made people more likely to instantly refuse matches, and lobbies force people to wait for their turn. The only thing you can do while waiting is spectate or sit in training mode.

So what's likely happening most of the time is, people start the game, go to look for a room and either there are none, the few rooms are laggy, require waiting, are ranks too far from your own, or kick people for whatever reason. They go to ranked match and wait for ages without a match. They try challenging people on custom search and get refused half the time. If you start your own room, who knows what kind of opponent you end up with. You'll probably end up closing the room on them, which is stressful for both parties.

It gets to a point where most people don't want to even try starting the game just to waste time trying to find a match, when they could easily play something else instead.

Oh, and adding only two characters per update doesn't guarantee people stick around, either. I imagine most people see the new characters, try them a little and probably find they don't like them, then quit again. The chance of a new character appealing to any random player enough to keep them playing seems small to me. Take me for example. None of the DLC characters appeal to me.

[Warxa]

Originally posted by Red:

Joke characters are more often than not bad, if people don't get that then the joke's on them in a way.

But yeah, that was predictable. Even if Neco-Arc was viable, it wouldn't solve the problem of casual players hopping online only to get steamrolled and quit the game, unless she was actually broken and could win by mashing like there's no tomorrow (which would be another problem). So it isn't surprising at all to see people dropping the game past the Neco-Arc release hype: some were here only for that, some expected her to be better and didn't try other characters out, and few of them actually kept playing.

Maybe it's not just beginners that would be steamrolled, maybe there are experienced players who would prefer playing Neco-Arc instead of any of those "dripless" characters that are uninteresting to anyone that has never read Tsukihime. She could be a joke character and still be viable. You could have her be like Faust from Guilty Gear (pre-Strive), a comedic character with weird random moves but still very strong.

Neco-Arc is probably the most popular character on the roster and she's trash. It's the same as having a low-tier character that a lot of people were interested in. It's like someone who buys SFV just for Juri and then quits after realising how bad she is.

A lot of people including myself buy fighting games just to stick to one character. I have a friend who bought SCVI just for Geralt. I have another who bought Strive just for Bridget and refuses to play Xrd because Bridget isn't in it. I bought this game just for Arcueid. That's why it's important to make every character viable.

[L]

Its true that it's a problem when the most famous/popular character also happens to be the weakest/hardest to play. But it's also likely that the people playing for that character aren't going to care enough to get better anyway.

If it were up to me, I'd have made Neco Arc to be on the same level as other characters. But there's special meaning when someone manages to legitimately beat others using joke characters. Sometimes I see Neco Arcs with crazy win stats, and I immediately think "that guy must be insanely good".

Remember when everyone said Panda in Tekken 7 was trash? Then that guy beat the crap out of everyone using Panda. This thread also reminds me of how SFA1 Dan was meant to be a joke character, but he was so strong they had to nerf the heck out of him.

[Warxa]

I know the appeal of winning with a joke character. I was happy with Neco-Arc staying a joke character at first, but now I see player numbers at around 200 and I remember how numbers went up to 4000 when Neco-Arc was added, and I see most user reviews are about Neco-Arc so I'm starting to feel like the playerbase would be bigger if Neco-Arc was good.

[L]

I doubt it. Every game has a lot of reviews where people say silly stuff they probably don't really care about. Even if Neco Arc was good, those people wouldn't play for long. Winning wouldn't keep them around.

[Sunset Margatroid]

well she is a joke character you arent supposed to actual main her like a proper one just doing for the funnies

[pseudo]

I think it's just more likely that the changes they made to the game weren't enough. The game has massive style but still feels a little too repetitive and simple. Neco was actually a good thing because playing against her felt like a complete change from what I was expecting. I don't think her lack of strength has all that much to do with how people peeled off from this game. The reality is that it's still not engaging or addicting enough.

[Bu4Ckru]

I disagree, even if NAC was viable the mere fact of an average person buying a 50$ game just for an specific character, is just not going to have the patience of learning a fighthing game, no matter how simple or accesible it is.
Theres more factors that MBTL is 'dead' other than the unfunny cat, Melty was always more of a """niche""" franchise to be more appealing for the mainstream audiences, even in figthing games communities people are really polarized about Melty.
Maybe that will change with the next UNI, i dunno

[Red]

Originally posted by Warxa:

Originally posted by Red:

Joke characters are more often than not bad, if people don't get that then the joke's on them in a way.

But yeah, that was predictable. Even if Neco-Arc was viable, it wouldn't solve the problem of casual players hopping online only to get steamrolled and quit the game, unless she was actually broken and could win by mashing like there's no tomorrow (which would be another problem). So it isn't surprising at all to see people dropping the game past the Neco-Arc release hype: some were here only for that, some expected her to be better and didn't try other characters out, and few of them actually kept playing.

Maybe it's not just beginners that would be steamrolled, maybe there are experienced players who would prefer playing Neco-Arc instead of any of those "dripless" characters that are uninteresting to anyone that has never read Tsukihime. She could be a joke character and still be viable. You could have her be like Faust from Guilty Gear (pre-Strive), a comedic character with weird random moves but still very strong.

Neco-Arc is probably the most popular character on the roster and she's trash. It's the same as having a low-tier character that a lot of people were interested in. It's like someone who buys SFV just for Juri and then quits after realising how bad she is.

A lot of people including myself buy fighting games just to stick to one character. I have a friend who bought SCVI just for Geralt. I have another who bought Strive just for Bridget and refuses to play Xrd because Bridget isn't in it. I bought this game just for Arcueid. That's why it's important to make every character viable.

As I said, she could be viable and people playing just because of the hype would still find other reasons to drop the game. And joke characters tend to have a harder time in general, because most of the time they're not meant to be played seriously (even less so as someone's main), but that doesn't mean winning with them is completely impossible and especially in games that try to be balanced like MBTL seems to be aiming for.

Faust is in a very weird spot in my opinion, with him not originally being a joke character and the Guilty Gear series trying to be balanced (see GGXXAC+R). So even though he pulls out a lot of random stuff, I wouldn't say he's "just" a joke character unlike, say, Lowain in GBVS.

Also Neco-Arc and Juri are not really comparable IMHO, one is clearly a joke character that is popular because of memes and the other is a regular one (though artworks might help with the popularity boost). Both can be poorly balanced and struggle more than the rest of the roster, but the joke character isn't meant to be necessarily good. And no matter what, someone who actually wants to play the game might still stick to that choice, whether it's because they like the character or their gameplay; I remember some people played Bullet in BBCP/BBCPE even though IIRC she required a lot more effort to get wins than other characters back then.

As for people buying games for a single character: that's a double-edged sword. Many people do that and drop the game shortly afterwards, whether it's because they didn't like the gameplay as a whole, got stomped online, have other games they want to play more, or didn't like the character's gameplay (among other reasons). Having a character in a game doesn't mean you'll like their gameplay (see GGST and the radical changes some characters underwent), and limiting yourself to trying a single character out means you might miss out on one that clicks. Characters can be a strong selling point, but if a game looks interesting on its own merits then skipping it entirely just because it doesn't include a specific character or because said character is supposedly bad sounds like not giving it a chance to me.

[Signed Picasso]

Originally posted by Warxa:

I know the appeal of winning with a joke character. I was happy with Neco-Arc staying a joke character at first, but now I see player numbers at around 200 and I remember how numbers went up to 4000 when Neco-Arc was added, and I see most user reviews are about Neco-Arc so I'm starting to feel like the playerbase would be bigger if Neco-Arc was good.

Are you implying that if neco was good, we would have 3k neco players?
Do you realize the horror of that scenario?

I've complained about the dripless problem this game has, but it is not why it's low pop. It has a similar pop to blazblue. What do these both have in common? They are both overwhelmingly weeb. And are both fast paced.

Also, theres a difference between a zany character like faust and yoshimitsu(Soul Calibur), who are more whimsical and whacky, and a joke character who is intentionally weak like dan(Street Fighter) and neco. Joke characters typically are more self-deprecating and are made as a mockery to fighting norms.

[卡玛丘诺]

melty blood = trash fg

[Signed Picasso]

Originally posted by Kamachuno:

melty blood = trash fg

The words of a baiken """""main"""""