Thoughts on Modern Controls

[mrquackers]

I want to start out with saying that I don't fully think modern controls are cheap, unfair, or dumb to have in a fighting game; they have their place and can bring in new players who have never played a fighting game before. With that being said, I have played many different fighting games over the years and grown to love them. This is the first street fighter I have fully sunk my teeth into and I find myself frustrated with fights involving a Modern Controls user. I am using classic controls and slowly learning the ropes of street fighter, I've learned some combos and i'm familiar with my mains moves. When I find myself in a fight with someone who is using modern controls I get caught in the same 2 or 3 combos from that respective character i'm fighting, and when i'm fighting against my main I get caught in combos that I know are more tedious and complicated for what what I would have to input; when compared to the 3 or 4 buttons being pressed on a modern controls users end.

TL;DR
I feel modern controls are putting people trying to learn classic controls at a disadvantage.

My question to my fellow SF6 players is do yall feel that there should be a multiplayer setting choice that can separate modern and classic control layout users? Or is the a "Get Gud" moment i'm stuck in and just need to push throw the what I see as "Button mashing BS"?

I'm interested to see what yall's view is on this, I know its been talked about in many a youtube videos; but over the years I have grown to not trust pro's or youtube content creators with my videos games.

[Lysamus]

Splitting the player base will hurt the game more than help it. More players to play with ensures a healthier multiplayer environment. Particularly necessary for fighting games given that they are notorious for poor retention.

If your goal is to learn classic controls, you can do so against a modern opponent so long as you let go of your concern for the outcome of the match. The core skills you need to develop (winning neutral, footsies, oki, etc) can be done with and against any control scheme and developing your Classic inputs is also mastered independent of your opponent.

It's true a new Modern player may convert more than you do and perhaps more than they would if they were playing Classic, but building a game plan around waiting for your opponent to make a mistake or drop a combo is not effective towards the long term goal of learning and improving.

[Hopsenburg]

Just from my own experience, I lose more frequently to Modern control players than Classic control players. I've noticed their inputs are much more precise. I can't win a match against Modern control Cammy, Juri, Zangief, or Juri. Jaime and Ken are slightly more predictable with their movesets when playing against Modern control players

I've maybe won one or two back in Iron against Cammy or Juri. Even though the damage may be reduced by 20%, I feel like your outputting more moves precisely to compensate for it. I think it would be great if there was an option in Ranked if you'd like to play with Modern and Classic or just the Classic experience but that may cause queue time issues.

In the end, Modern controls have attract a lot more new players to the game which is great. But the experience does feel splintered because I feel like I'm playing a more human matchup against Classic players who may occasionally make a mistake and give that split-second opening for a win over a robotic experience from a Modern control player that leaves a bitter loss than a fair loss.

[Papa Charlie]

Originally posted by Hopsenburg:

In the end, Modern controls have attract a lot more new players to the game which is great. But the experience does feel splintered because I feel like I'm playing a more human matchup against Classic players who may occasionally make a mistake and give that split-second opening for a win over a robotic experience from a Modern control player that leaves a bitter loss than a fair loss.

This paragraph is my feelings 100%.

To be honest, once I got to gold with Zangief, I noticed that a huge number of modern players punish the slightest mistakes, where classic players will do a combo, but will wiff at times too. It feels kind of unfair at times that I'm getting a quarter of my life taken for a small mistake against a modern player with a little bit of meter who is mashing buttons, versus a classic player who I know learned their combos and is just damn good at it. I never refuse a match/rematch, but it's getting a little tedious to play against modern users. Honestly, I don't think I would be all that upset if I had less matches but didn't have to deal with the feeling that I got cheated when playing against some modern players.

[mrquackers]

Originally posted by Lysamus:

Splitting the player base will hurt the game more than help it. More players to play with ensures a healthier multiplayer environment. Particularly necessary for fighting games given that they are notorious for poor retention.

If your goal is to learn classic controls, you can do so against a modern opponent so long as you let go of your concern for the outcome of the match. The core skills you need to develop (winning neutral, footsies, oki, etc) can be done with and against any control scheme and developing your Classic inputs is also mastered independent of your opponent.

It's true a new Modern player may convert more than you do and perhaps more than they would if they were playing Classic, but building a game plan around waiting for your opponent to make a mistake or drop a combo is not effective towards the long term goal of learning and improving.

I agree with all of the points you bring up, I think the biggest mental hurtle I need to over come is feeling bummed out that I lost to a modern control user. losing over all has never really bothered me but when someone fighting style looks button mashy I feel like I get more frustrated when loosing to it.

what Is your opinion on allowing the opportunity to queue with specific controller layouts in ranked? I haven't played alot of ranked myself but I do know that in the very bottom where I was placed its all modern control user.

[nwad]

Splitting up the community isn't good for a fighting game. That's one reason crossplay exists. I prefer not to think about the opponent's controls. I assume they will never mess up their inputs. With the rising popularity of hitbox controllers and their easier execution, it's a safe assumption to make.

[Lysamus]

Originally posted by mrquackers:

I agree with all of the points you bring up, I think the biggest mental hurtle I need to over come is feeling bummed out that I lost to a modern control user. losing over all has never really bothered me but when someone fighting style looks button mashy I feel like I get more frustrated when loosing to it.

what Is your opinion on allowing the opportunity to queue with specific controller layouts in ranked? I haven't played alot of ranked myself but I do know that in the very bottom where I was placed its all modern control user.

I still feel that splitting the player base would hurt the game too much, in ranked or in casual play.

I can appreciate how demoralizing it can be to consistently lose in a fighting game. No doubt the genre's poor retention is largely due to the fact that it offers little to no consolation to players starting their journey and being matched up against more experienced or better skilled opponents.

Here's my advice -> Set small goals based on your growth opportunities. Celebrate when you achieve those goals and let that be your bulwark against the "You Lose." screen. If you keep setting goals, achieving goals and sanding off your vulnerabilities, victory is inevitable.

At the start of your journey, wins don't matter. Ranked doesn't matter. LPs don't matter. When you eventually put down SF6 and move on to the next hot fighting game, you'll have no sense of how many games you've won or lost over the course of your time with the game. What you will retain however is all the skills and input mastery you developed. When you load into your first match in that new game and immediately apply that expertise, that frustration you're feeling now will be gone, replaced with a sense of accomplishment.

[helix]

It's a hard to swallow pill, but if you're struggling against Modern, it's not a Modern problem.

[Samvega]

Originally posted by Zahramar:

99% of Classic players want nothing to do with Modern and we do not consider them an addition to the playerbase.

Large scale randomised sample survey results please.

[0wnz0r]

modern givs absolutely no advantage, u can cry one button dp all day or 2 button super all day, but if u dont kno how to bait a dp or super, thats on u. u suck. it aint modern bein too good, u jus suck. get better n stop cryin.

[Samvega]

Originally posted by Zahramar:

Your large scale sample is irrelevant

No it's not, in multiple threads you talk about a 'majority' and '99%' of Classic players.

Back up your assertions with evidence. You aren't a politician, so hold yourself a decent standard of public discourse.

[0wnz0r]

not a single good player has complained about modern controls

[Zoid13]

having played SF since the early 90's i don't see the issue people have with modern
fight stick
pad
leverless
they all play different and have advantages and disadvantages how is that any different than modern.

i say props to people that can do well with modern. i completed some trials to see what it was like. and man i find it so much harder and confusing than classic lol

[Reticeo]

I only lost to one player using modern controls. They bested me in mix-ups and 50/50s so I simply got outplayed. I got no beef with them mainly because I'm old and have been literally playing since SFII in the bodega days.

If you're losing to Modern controls, you're probably dropping combos or haven't learned some bread and butter combos with your main using Classic.

I'm not saying git good but spend more time perfecting what you're learning instead of worrying about Modern controls. You'll enjoy the game more.

[Zoid13]

Originally posted by helix:

It's a hard to swallow pill, but if you're struggling against Modern, it's not a Modern problem.

this.
where you get placed in ranked is the same as where they got placed in ranked. meaning that your win / loss / skill level is equal regardless of control scheme.

[Samvega]

Originally posted by Zoid13:

where you get placed in ranked is the same as where they got placed in ranked. meaning that your win / loss / skill level is equal regardless of control scheme.

You don't understand. Modern controls are simultaneously CHEATING so you always win but also NOT ALWAYS WINNING because I play them at my rank where I lose plenty. Ranking is broken!!! (/s)