50:50 the game

[Supa]

You just walk towards someone and make them guess if you're going to hit or throw them. Even on the so called pro level this happens and someone gets throw 5 times in a row. I am just kind of losing all the motivation to take this game seriously at this point like can anyone try to defend this and explain me how is this in any way interesting?

Throw is 5 frames, unreactable, and can't be broken once initiated. You can start combos from 5 frame moves including lows, unreactable. You just guess.

[Bumblescrump]

Welcome to fighting games? There are some guesses involved. I would argue educated guesses, and you have a lot of options on wake up and the things you mention are reactable if you know what to look for and have a bit of anticipation, which takes experience.

[Supa]

Originally posted by Bumblescrump:

Welcome to fighting games? There are some guesses involved.

But like for an example in Tekken you are at least given a chance to react to throws and they don't get you while crouching. And 5 frame moves can't be used to do full combos.

[Bumblescrump]

Originally posted by Supa:

Originally posted by Bumblescrump:

Welcome to fighting games? There are some guesses involved.

But like for an example in Tekken you are at least given a chance to react to throws and they don't get you while crouching. And 5 frame moves can't be used to do full combos.

You can tech throws in this game? And if you aren't familiar with delay tech, i would look that up. I feel like you have a lot more to think about on defense in Tekken.

[Soapysian]

drive reversal exist

[Supa]

I'm not defending Tekken. It's just that I found Tekken spammy and then I was told that Street Fighter is where it's at but all I'm finding out is that it's even more guessing because everything comes out so fast that no human can react to it...

Originally posted by Soap:

drive reversal exist

...unless you use drive reversal lol because they're slow.

[Castyles]

I'd rather guess on corners than eat dRivE rUsH cAnCeLs.

[GameJayRemy]

We also have option select, such as delayed throw tech.
Which will get punished by a walk back punish.
That will get punished by a low..
that low will get punished by a special...
that special will get punished by a block.......
That block will get punished by a throw..................

The mental stack is stacking.

Edit
I will say it feels bad to get thrown 5 times in a roll.
So I DONT always take the throw
I think it was Brian F put out a video on this very subject.

[Soapysian]

Originally posted by Supa:

I'm not defending Tekken. It's just that I found Tekken spammy and then I was told that Street Fighter is where it's at but all I'm finding out is that it's even more guessing because everything comes out so fast that no human can react to it...

Originally posted by Soap:

drive reversal exist

...unless you use drive reversal lol because they're slow.

nah you're just bad.

[Lysamus]

You can use conditioning to narrow down the opponent's "available" options. An EX DP for example beats both walk up & hit & walk up & throw. Tag your opponent enough with those and they'll likely stop doing both and pivot to something that beats your EX DP like blocking -> which means they've given up their offense and you can pivot to putting them in a 50:50 situation.

I try to reframe exchanges with my opponents in order to leverage conditioning. For example, if I eat a wake-up DP, I remind myself that I've just now taught my opponent that a wake-up DP will work on me. I'll then try applying that knowledge against them in future interactions.

[my butt is erect]

While not a problem itself, the issue is a single one of these bad guesses means you lose 40-70% of your life. It's actually completely ridiculous and is the same reason I stopped wanting to take this game seriously. If you did any more damage it would be rock paper scissors.

The cost of casualising a game, giving more chance for a bad player to randomly explode the opponent before much actually happens.

I hadn't played since SNES. I was really disappointed in sf6 due to being overly explosive on single guesses, though I still find some fun in the game.

[Bumblescrump]

Originally posted by Supa:

I'm not defending Tekken. It's just that I found Tekken spammy and then I was told that Street Fighter is where it's at but all I'm finding out is that it's even more guessing because everything comes out so fast that no human can react to it...

I think you will feel like your guessing until you have the match up knowledge and experience to better anticipate what's coming. It takes time and dedication to get better. There are still some guesses, but educated guesses. Reaction time is less when you can see what is coming and get the read, which is a big part of fighting games in general. There's just no short cuts, you lose a lot when you first start, but if you want to learn and figure out options you can.

[Supa]

Originally posted by Lysamus:

You can use conditioning to narrow down the opponent's "available" options. An EX DP for example beats both walk up & hit & walk up & throw. Tag your opponent enough with those and they'll likely stop doing both and pivot to something that beats your EX DP like blocking -> which means they've given up their offense and you can pivot to putting them in a 50:50 situation.

I try to reframe exchanges with my opponents in order to leverage conditioning. For example, if I eat a wake-up DP, I remind myself that I've just now taught my opponent that a wake-up DP will work on me. I'll then try applying that knowledge against them in future interactions.

If you hit your wakeup dp you will deal some nice damage. But if the enemy blocks you will eat more damage. So on paper you should never even try to wakeup dp unless the enemy never respects it which of course again is just based on luck.

And yeah. Conditioning. You can apply conditioning to rock paper scissors too. Same thing really, you pick options and wish yours works. And seeing people try to theorycraft something like that just sounds silly to me.

[Tyrant (My Vision is Augmented)]

What? This game has some very generous delay throw tech. Its something you should practice in the lab.

And don't take this the wrong way or anything... but your game clock says you have 60 hours with this title. That's like... almost enough time to learn a character's optimal strings and be able to pull them off semi-consistently in ranked.

If you're getting thrown a bunch, its no different than reacting to DI. Put in the hours (a lot more than 60) and get your timing down. Tech that throw. Don't wake-up DP unless you are Gold rank or lower (you will pay for it). Learn the power of neutral jumps. Start learning how good those light attacks are for putting pressure. Learn how and why players shimmy you in the corner.

The only time this game comes down to guess work is if you get cornered. Which is almost 100% of the time your fault (unless you are playing against Ken... in which case it is still 70% your fault).

[Everchosen]

Originally posted by poongoolie (rip heavy crew):

While not a problem itself, the issue is a single one of these bad guesses means you lose 40-70% of your life. It's actually completely ridiculous and is the same reason I stopped wanting to take this game seriously. If you did any more damage it would be rock paper scissors.

The cost of casualising a game, giving more chance for a bad player to randomly explode the opponent before much actually happens.

I hadn't played since SNES. I was really disappointed in sf6 due to being overly explosive on single guesses, though I still find some fun in the game.

You clearly don't remember SF2 then, are you sure you aren't the casual?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXpfqX3p40E

SF2 actually had more damage, variable stun and a whole bunch of other fun stuff.

[Gaxkang]

a lot of the game is just coin flips. some out there may not like to admit it since they wanna think they are all skill.

there is some predicting and conditioning, but losing a coin flip can be so damaging they loom large.

if you lose two or three coin flips you're gonna lose.

now i have seen some people get pure 50/50's right like 4 times in a row, who can say how they do that. just great luck i suppose.