Question about reading frame data

[bulldog0890]

say a move is +4 on hit, and you want to link it with a 4 frame normal. Will that work? or will that land on the first frame the opponent can block?

ie, does it have to be +5 on hit to link to a 4 frame attack

[Lysamus]

If the normal is active on frame 4, it will link. If it's active on frame 5, the opponent will have an opportunity to block/parry/invincible start-up reversal/etc.

[bulldog0890]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lysamus:

If the normal is active on frame 4, it will link. If it's active on frame 5, the opponent will have an opportunity to block/parry/invincible start-up reversal/etc.

well thats what i mean. if it says "startup, 4 frames", is it active frame 5 then? or active on frame 4?

[Lysamus]

If it's showing 4 frames start-up in the frame data and not active until the 5th frame, it won't link if you only have a 4 frame advantage.

You can confirm in training mode with the frame meter if the normal your looking at is active on the 4th or 5th frame. You can also check it on streetfighter.com (just look up "SF6 *character name* frame data" in your friendly search engine)

[Spooky7.62]

i wouldnt bet on that working. even if my first move is 6 frames and my second move is 5 frames I would probably try to go with something else as the window is pretty tight, also have to take in account frame delay, and match connection.

[Naughty Senpai 69]

Yeah +5 on hit links into 5 frame startup moves. Example: Ken`s cr.LP is +5 on hit and links into his st.MP which has 5 frames of startup. Same for punishes. -5 can be punished by 5 frame startup moves, but range also plays a major role here. Lots of punishable moves can be spaced to be unpunishable.

Lysamus is just wrong.

[Scrub]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lysamus:

If the normal is active on frame 4, it will link. If it's active on frame 5, the opponent will have an opportunity to block/parry/invincible start-up reversal/etc.

This is incorrect.

If the move leaves you at +5, and you can see in-game that the startup to the move you want to link is 5 frames - this will link.

[CHAO$$$]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von bulldog0890:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lysamus:

If the normal is active on frame 4, it will link. If it's active on frame 5, the opponent will have an opportunity to block/parry/invincible start-up reversal/etc.

well thats what i mean. if it says "startup, 4 frames", is it active frame 5 then? or active on frame 4?

The general terms are "startup" "active frames" and "recovery".

In every source ive used (Supercombowiki / official website) startup and active frames are always overlapping in 1 frame but recovery and active frames are not.

meaning - a move that is noted as having 4 startup frames on one of those websites will have 3 frames of nothing, then the first hit frame that is simultaneously counted as the last startup frame for purely semantic purposes

As such a move that is noted as "4 frame startup" will link from a move that is +4 on hit everytime.

[Wanda]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von doc:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lysamus:

If the normal is active on frame 4, it will link. If it's active on frame 5, the opponent will have an opportunity to block/parry/invincible start-up reversal/etc.

This is incorrect.

If the move leaves you at +5, and you can see in-game that the startup to the move you want to link is 5 frames - this will link.

Yes. i agree.
+5 = you can link every move who start with and under 5 frames.

[Ahriman]

if you're +4 you can link into 4 frame attacks.

[Everchosen]

Some poster on an earlier thread indicated that there is actually a grace period on links. I think it's something like it will accept the input 3ish frames prior to recovery ending allowing you to do frame perfect links without frame perfect execution.

Every "frame perfect" link i've tried is considerably more lenient what frame data would suggest, although in all fairness considerably in this instance is still like 3 frames or what have you, it's just you don't need to rely on methods like plinking to force frame perfect inputs.

[Ahriman]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Everchosen:

Some poster on an earlier thread indicated that there is actually a grace period on links. I think it's something like it will accept the input 3ish frames prior to recovery ending allowing you to do frame perfect links without frame perfect execution.

Every "frame perfect" link i've tried is considerably more lenient what frame data would suggest, although in all fairness considerably in this instance is still like 3 frames or what have you, it's just you don't need to rely on methods like plinking to force frame perfect inputs.

there's a 4 frame input buffer, there are no real 1 frame links in SF6 or SF5

[ryu600RR]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von bulldog0890:

say a move is +4 on hit, and you want to link it with a 4 frame normal. Will that work? or will that land on the first frame the opponent can block?

ie, does it have to be +5 on hit to link to a 4 frame attack

short answer yes

but it's also a 1-frame link
meaning you only have 1 frame window to input the command

if you land +5 on hit
then you have 2f window to link something with 4f start up

[ChaosAura]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lysamus:

If the normal is active on frame 4, it will link. If it's active on frame 5, the opponent will have an opportunity to block/parry/invincible start-up reversal/etc.

Way to confuse him further.

Yes +4 allows for a 4 frame normal to connect. Aka a 1-frame link.

This games 1 frame link is very lenient. You can hit 1 frame links online consistently with practice. Unlike sf4 where 1 frame meant 1 frame.

[Ahriman]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von ryu600RR:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von bulldog0890:

say a move is +4 on hit, and you want to link it with a 4 frame normal. Will that work? or will that land on the first frame the opponent can block?

ie, does it have to be +5 on hit to link to a 4 frame attack

short answer yes

but it's also a 1-frame link
meaning you only have 1 frame window to input the command

if you land +5 on hit
then you have 2f window to link something with 4f start up

this is not true, read my reply above yours

[BACKSTABUUU]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von bulldog0890:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Lysamus:

If the normal is active on frame 4, it will link. If it's active on frame 5, the opponent will have an opportunity to block/parry/invincible start-up reversal/etc.

well thats what i mean. if it says "startup, 4 frames", is it active frame 5 then? or active on frame 4?

When training mode says something has a startup of 4 frames, it means the first active frame comes out on frame 4.

So yes, in your example, you could link a move that's +4 on hit with a move that has a 4 frame startup.