60 FPS lock in 2022... what a joke!

[CyberDNIWE]

So, the battles are locked at 60 fps, even though the menu (and I assume word tour mode) can be 120+.
What kind of console pesantry is this? Please give us unlocked framerate in battles too.

[CyberDNIWE]

GατΠιсЭ eredeti hozzászólása:

CyberDNIWE eredeti hozzászólása:

well, to me the framerate looks choppy. Try enabling 30 fps lock for world tour battles to simulate the effect, if you're ok with 60.
To be clear: there is nothing wrong with 60. It's just that 120+ is better and there is no reason for them not to let the game display more stuff if your hardware can manage. Purely visual fidelity thing.

That could be a matter of display setup/hardware/software. Believe me; I can vibe with the "hating on anything choppy". I loathe it as well. At 60fps on my system, SF6 ran mint, I can't even say otherwise. About the only thing that was flawless was the frame rate. That choppiness could be something going on with your rig. Not sayin it's trash or low-end. The game just might be exposing something interfering with the fluidity of ur gfx rendering.

Fair point.
And just for the record: I play Strive in (the one and only available) 60 fps just fine. But that game has its own style and keypose animation thing which makes it feel different than any other fg.

[OrigamiKingdom]

It's the same question raised in just about ever other fighting game released in semi-recent history.

Fighting games are unique in that they need a level of reliability and stability and repeatability most other games don't really need. They process the concept of time differently than is normally considered "correct" or best practice for games.

Each player must complete/process every, measured slice of time instead of looking at how much time it took to produce a pass on the game loop. Failing to deliver a frame on time generally causes the game to slow down instead of making bigger movements to "keep up to where things should be" the way one might describe what happens in most other games.

Each frame in a fighting game is known measure of time and some planning has to be made to decide how much time a frame is. Traditionally that has been 60fps because it's a pretty good fidelity input wise for players and was attainable technically at the same time. Not long ago fighting games were the only type of game near guaranteed to run at 60fps because less (30fps) really isn't enough fidelity for players.

Now that tech has caught up fighting games are falling behind frame wise. Trying to bump up the framerate the way things have been done would require that every player, and their device be able to hit a new target that would most likely be 120. That's every frame rendered on every device for every player WITHOUT FAIL or the game slows down. Current tech is nowhere near ready to assume that baseline.

Other options are to separate the logic and the visuals so you can have a lower fidelity input and game loop baseline, and render "extra" frames if a system is up to them. But someone has to figure out how to best go about doing that or some other strategy to get frames up without changing repeatability/predictability. And you got to tell the fps nerds that some frames they see aren't actually affecting the gameplay and hope a riot doesn't start. Most devs are just going to go with not reinventing a well working wheel.

I'd recommend everyone watch some vids on people using the SF6 training mode with the FPS tool to understand not just why fighting games are built this way, but how it's being used to make decisions on how to best approach playing the game. (footage from the beta tests, not the current demo which doesn't have it)

Also worth mentioning, it's 2023

[Egzi]

60 fps is standard in fighting games. For all other games I want 120 fps+ But fighting games need to stay @ 60 fps

[Shadowlet]

EGZI eredeti hozzászólása:

60 fps is standard in fighting games. For all other games I want 120 fps+ But fighting games need to stay @ 60 fps

It's a standard that can change. One that can allows players to play at either FPS cap, à la SamSho and BFTG.

[Death Metal]

The game is designed around 60 FPS because the number of frames matter in battle, so all players must match the same refresh frequency within 1 second.

[Shadowlet]

Death Metal eredeti hozzászólása:

The game is designed around 60 FPS because the number of frames matter in battle, so all players must match the same refresh frequency within 1 second.

....

[InmaDjinn Samalik]

It's going to be a problem when so much of fighting game lingo is built around 60fps. When someone says that was 5 frames, they know you mean the amount of time an attack does it's thing and such

[0wnz0r]

its necessary for parity for fairness n balance. its competition. thats y its so important for potato pc to turn down settings to maintain at least 60. if everybody played at different framerates, matches would be laggy ♥♥♥♥ shows.

[Higon]

CyberDNIWE eredeti hozzászólása:

So, the battles are locked at 60 fps, even though the menu (and I assume word tour mode) can be 120+.
What kind of console pesantry is this? Please give us unlocked framerate in battles too.

There're 3 things you have to consider when taking about increasing fps.

1. Server side tickrate (or Local)
   
2. Client side tickrate (Graphical update)
   
3. User input tickrate

When the game has "Server tickrate < Client tickrate", your PC is rendering FAKE screens which varies on each player's monitor. This is a source of CONFUSION, UNFAIRNESS and UNDETECTABLE CHEATERS. But in FPS games, that condition is acceptable because graphical consistency is not easily verifiable so NOBODY CAN CARE. Many FPS's online matches are scams. In fighting game, it's crucial to avoid it because every player will be verifying exactly what's happening on the screen frame by frame. Good fighting game needs to share the same screen with every player. (to simplify things, I don't talk about rollbacks here)

Most FPS's server side tick is set at 20~60 samples per second. If you are playing these games with 144fps on a 144Hz monitor, you are having unfair advantage over other randomly matched players.

• CSGO: 64 samples/s
  
• Halo: 60 or 30 samples/s
  
• Fortnite/BattlefieldV/Destiny: 30 samples/s
  
• COD:MW: 22 or 12 samples/s.
  
• Apex Legends: 20 samples/s.

Also in most FPS games, client tickrate is set equal to its input tickrate. So if you have better PC, you have more commands and smoother movements on client side. This also gives UNFAIR advantage to certain players. You see, FPS's online multiplayer matches are made to be Pay-to-Win.

Street Fighter's online matches are set as below. This is to make sure every match is fair. I can safely say Capcom locked client tickrate (graphical update) at 60 updates/s as higher tickrate can give 1ms~20ms advantage to reacting players.

• Server side tickrate: 60
  
• Client side tickrate: 60
  
• User input tickrate: Infinite

Street Fighter 6's local (not online) matches however are set as below.

• Server side tickrate: 60
  
• Client side tickrate: Unlimited
  
• User input tickrate: Infinite

[CyberDNIWE]

60 fps is a "standard" from the 90s and the fact that capcom is still stuck there is not good. Many have said the same about delay based netcode in previous SFs, yet now rollback is becoming a norm and FGs are becoming actually playable online. Again, as many have pointed out, there're quite a lot FGs that have unlocked rendering fps and can be played online.
Jeez the amount of copium for preorder boys is too deam high!

[CyberDNIWE]

Higon eredeti hozzászólása:

CyberDNIWE eredeti hozzászólása:

So, the battles are locked at 60 fps, even though the menu (and I assume word tour mode) can be 120+.
What kind of console pesantry is this? Please give us unlocked framerate in battles too.

There're 3 things you have to consider when taking about increasing fps.

1. Server side tickrate (or Local)
   
2. Client side tickrate (Graphical update)
   
3. User input tickrate

When the game has "Server tickrate < Client tickrate", your PC is rendering FAKE screens which varies on each player's monitor. This is a source of CONFUSION, UNFAIRNESS and UNDETECTABLE CHEATERS. But in FPS games, that condition is acceptable because graphical consistency is not easily verifiable so NOBODY CAN CARE. Many FPS's online matches are scams. In fighting game, it's crucial to avoid it because every player will be verifying exactly what's happening on the screen frame by frame. Good fighting game needs to share the same screen with every player. (to simplify things, I don't talk about rollbacks here)

Most FPS's server side tick is set at 20~60 samples per second. If you are playing these games with 144fps on a 144Hz monitor, you are having unfair advantage over other randomly matched players.

• CSGO: 64 samples/s
  
• Halo: 60 or 30 samples/s
  
• Fortnite/BattlefieldV/Destiny: 30 samples/s
  
• COD:MW: 22 or 12 samples/s.
  
• Apex Legends: 20 samples/s.

Also in most FPS games, client tickrate is set equal to its input tickrate. So if you have better PC, you have more commands and smoother movements on client side. This also gives UNFAIR advantage to certain players. You see, FPS's online multiplayer matches are made to be Pay-to-Win.

Street Fighter's online matches are set as below. This is to make sure every match is fair. I can safely say Capcom locked client tickrate (graphical update) at 60 updates/s as higher tickrate can give 1ms~20ms advantage to reacting players.

• Server side tickrate: 60
  
• Client side tickrate: 60
  
• User input tickrate: Infinite

Street Fighter 6's local (not online) matches however are set as below.

• Server side tickrate: 60
  
• Client side tickrate: Unlimited
  
• User input tickrate: Infinite

Thank you for very detailed explanaition how the stuff works. I'm sure many will find it useful. (no sarcasm here)
However, the unfair advantage point does not stick with me. In the same vain one can argue that playing on cheatbox is unfair advantage over others. Also, it's the same "my mother has texas instrument calculator, so everyone else who has a proper pc needs their experience downgraded so it would be fair"- argument that I've already made.
Plus, any game is pay-to-win by your definition. I've got a hitbox that updates 1000 times a second and you've got chinese encoder that does only 125? Well, the game is pay to win then! See? Absurd, isn't it?

Higon eredeti hozzászólása:

When the game has "Server tickrate < Client tickrate", your PC is rendering FAKE screens which varies on each player's monitor. This is a source of CONFUSION, UNFAIRNESS and UNDETECTABLE CHEATERS.

Well that's very naiive way of looking at it. There will be a delay in every online game since your signal has to travel through numerous network switches, be processed (on server/host) and possibly even sent back as an ack. There's no way around it - it's a physical limitation of the internet. So, instead of waiting 100+ ms for every action you'd like to take, shooters have figured out that they can allow some leeway on inbetween the ticks and roll back the action if the're are conflicts. Fighting games are no different, so again, by your definition they too are as fake as the shooters.

[Mimosa]

If you'd like to experience a fighter at 120 FPS you can try Battle for the Grid or Tekken 7 with the overlay mod. It is an amazing experience.

There is work being done to uncap the framerate in fights for SF6 using REFramework. Don't know when that will be available.

[El Fuerte]

yeah i refunded and bought Redfall instead.

[BigCheese]

It's a shame how many argue to forever stay in the xbox360 era of graphics.

[fffreakyyy]

VayneCalibur eredeti hozzászólása:

Guys, it is locked at 60 FPS during online only. Why is it locked you wonder?? Well, it is locked in 60 FPS because the moves are meant to run in a 60FPS game.

Developers make the game having in mind those FPS. 60 FPS is a standart and that is the main pillar of a FG, it determines what is reactable and what not. You can't simply allow people who can play at 244hz/FPS play against those with 60 FPS. That is simply not competitive and unfrair.

X move is Y frames on start up and has Z active frames having 60 FPS in mind. You can't simply allow a Fighting game go over 60FPS like it's an FPS game, please know the genre you are into before asking some higher Hz/FPS.

There are no FG in the market which allows you to play at +60FPS online (In fact, if one of the two players is not running the game at the same speed, he/she is causing desync/lag to the match) nor has ever been. You might find mods and cheats to unlock it, but that's a story for another day.

Remember that FGs use P2P connections, and that won't change anytime soon.

If they didn't figure this out on their own don't bother explaining.