Maximilian's take on Classic vs Modern

[Yann]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS1gxKH6ggQ

Hopefully this will help people understand why modern is totally fine.

[BlueFunGuy]

This is a pretty spot on take

[Aegix Drakan]

There's a reason Max is one of the best advocates for the fighting game genre. :P

[RetroKid]

100% agree

[Relius_Craft]

I don't really care what people play. Heck for some M-controls may actually help if lets say....an actual physical handicap...but want to enjoy the game.
Bad habits and bad footsies can be weeded out, no matter the control scheme.
However and this is my only complaint about the M......It is not good for transitioning to other games.
Let's presume I'm new and start with SF6 but want to play KoF15.....and only play with M.....because I cant do motions......there will be 2 courses of action...1)Learn motions or 2)Drop the game and go back to SF6. (even more so for older games that never had modern to begin with.....and will never be patched in)
There is no incentive to try out Classic.
Future games have to either stick to the formula and not have an equivalet to Modern.....and risk not attracting said players....or have a sort of Modern Controls....and risk the same debates.
Call me whatever....but for me personally....to be able to do a qcf motion is the bare minimum that people should be required to learn....as it is something that can be found in any fighting game for the past 20-25 years.(again unless you cant, do to a physical handicap)

[Dregora]

What i've been telling people personally is that street fighter isn't a heavy combo orientated game. Ofc you have combos and some better than others, but overall it's a very simplistic fighting game if you compare it to those endless juggle long combos that you can do in other games.

The fundamentals in street fighter have always been, imo, the most important thing. The mental play, the footsies, the psychology, trying to stay unpredictable. All that leads into an eventual punish and at that point a combo matters, but even then i'd argue due to diminished returns (depending on if you include supers or not etc) a lengthy combo ( a practical lenghty combo) isn't SO strong that it completely invalidates everything before that.

If you have no idea how to land your fancy combos because you lack the fundamentals, even modern controls won't save you at all. Not even close.

Originally posted by Relius_Craft:

I don't really care what people play. Heck for some M-controls may actually help if lets say....an actual physical handicap...but want to enjoy the game.
Bad habits and bad footsies can be weeded out, no matter the control scheme.
However and this is my only complaint about the M......It is not good for transitioning to other games.
Let's presume I'm new and start with SF6 but want to play KoF15.....and only play with M.....because I cant do motions......there will be 2 courses of action...1)Learn motions or 2)Drop the game and go back to SF6. (even more so for older games that never had modern to begin with.....and will never be patched in)
There is no incentive to try out Classic.
Future games have to either stick to the formula and not have an equivalet to Modern.....and risk not attracting said players....or have a sort of Modern Controls....and risk the same debates.
Call me whatever....but for me personally....to be able to do a qcf motion is the bare minimum that people should be required to learn....as it is something that can be found in any fighting game for the past 20-25 years.(again unless you cant, do to a physical handicap)

This is just a personal thing. Not everybody is such a fighting game lover that they're gonna try out multiple ones. People like that often are casuals that just enjoy it for fun and will eventually stop playing. They're not going to jump from fighting game to fighting game. The ones that do, are already the ones that know classic.

[Lysamus]

Big Max fan, as well as a fan of any fighting game influencer whose messages are based on inclusion.

Inputs have long been a staple of fighting games, but we're seeing more modern games that don't require classic motion inputs to operate (Smash Bros, Tekken, DNF Duel, Granblue, Power Rangers and the upcoming Project L to name a few). If SF6 continues to succeed as it has, it might be time for genre fans to reflect on what exactly motion inputs offer to the experience and if those benefits can be conveyed via other means.

Change is scary, but stagnation and the death of the genre are far more terrifying, especially to those of us who remember the drought before SF IV brought it all back.

[BACKSTABUUU]

Originally posted by Lysamus:

Big Max fan, as well as a fan of any fighting game influencer whose messages are based on inclusion.

Inputs have long been a staple of fighting games, but we're seeing more modern games that don't require classic motion inputs to operate (Smash Bros, Tekken, DNF Duel, Granblue, Power Rangers and the upcoming Project L to name a few). If SF6 continues to succeed as it has, it might be time for genre fans to reflect on what exactly motion inputs offer to the experience and if those benefits can be conveyed via other means.

Change is scary, but stagnation and the death of the genre are far more terrifying, especially to those of us who remember the drought before SF IV brought it all back.

Personally I think motion inputs add a lot to fighting games in terms of both being a balancing factor and just being fun to execute. My favorite versions of simplified controls are ones where simple inputs are an option, but situationally not always the best to use. Granblue, DNF Duel, and SF6 all do that pretty well.

[YT_RealDahmni]

the truth is out there and max did say what was truth....that the majority of the people cry the loudest are actually from the lower ranks id suggest when we see another post about the whole blame modern that we literally show them the video and ask them if they are in the lower ranks.... to me it doesnt matter modern or classic its just a way of playing and i really at the end of the day just wanna play a game not seeing this tired argument from people lol ..... do you guys agree that this topic is tiresome??




me i just wanna play a game and have some fun

[Ratch]

Max is correct, not big soup rice. My favorite way of looking at Modern v Classic is from Malcolm in the Middle. The future is now, old man.

[N7 ElusiveOne]

Originally posted by zero:

Ppl give Max too much credibility imo. Hes not wrong in this case, but this video will not make ppl who dislike modern controls change their opinions just because its Max. Most of them will just look at him and see a random streamer saying a bunch of stuff they disagree with.

Well, at least I don't have to respond to any more threads about this. I can just post the video and move on. I appreciate Max addressing this. He is a reasonable guy who considers opinions well.

[Kamu Da Finka]

Originally posted by Relius_Craft:

I don't really care what people play. Heck for some M-controls may actually help if lets say....an actual physical handicap...but want to enjoy the game.
Bad habits and bad footsies can be weeded out, no matter the control scheme.
However and this is my only complaint about the M......It is not good for transitioning to other games.
Let's presume I'm new and start with SF6 but want to play KoF15.....and only play with M.....because I cant do motions......there will be 2 courses of action...1)Learn motions or 2)Drop the game and go back to SF6. (even more so for older games that never had modern to begin with.....and will never be patched in)
There is no incentive to try out Classic.
Future games have to either stick to the formula and not have an equivalet to Modern.....and risk not attracting said players....or have a sort of Modern Controls....and risk the same debates.
Call me whatever....but for me personally....to be able to do a qcf motion is the bare minimum that people should be required to learn....as it is something that can be found in any fighting game for the past 20-25 years.(again unless you cant, do to a physical handicap)

Dude, I use my keyboard. A super is literally two keys that you press 4 times + punch/kick. 3 buttons in total. If people can't figure that out input wise, God help them. Makes me wonder how they do literally anything throughout the day honestly. It's about as much muscle memory know how as turning on the microwave starting out. Driving? WAY more complicated. Tying your shoelaces? About as complicated mechanically.

Drive rush combos? Okay, that'll take a little work, but c'mon. The inputs themselves are nothing, but reacting and pumping them out at the required speed is another thing.

I agree with you though. They're not developing any translatable skills outside of maybe rudimentary basic footsies by playing modern.

[Lysamus]

Originally posted by Gyoza Fairy:

...every somewhat serious modern player is inevitably going to switch to classic so they can do more with their character anyway.

I don't think this is true. Having watched some high level Modern play, it's very clear that there's a ceiling to Modern that likely none of us here will ever touch, nevermind the fact that, as Max said (paraphrased), inputs are not what make you good at fighting games, nor are lack of complex inputs what make you bad at fighting games.

To the Modern player out there now, I encourage you to enjoy the game at your pace and not feel compelled to switch. There is so much to master to become good at this game that go beyond inputs. If you ever do reach a point where the Modern control scheme is all that's holding you back, making that transition will be easy compared to everything else you've accomplished.

[Nearlydead]

Dude does nothing except clickbait videos and sponsored content ($$$). His opinions are worthless.

[SilentHero]

https://youtu.be/L8rMIQQnXIA

We can't take the word of streamers as law.
Maximilian is a streamer that has ties to companies and saying negative things about modern controls could get him in trouble. Just because he's popular we have to excuse modern controls and be good sheep? I'm sorry, But no!
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and should be allowed to say why they do not like about modern controls.

[Zoid13]

Originally posted by SilentHero:

We can't take the word of streamers as law.
Maximilian is a streamer that has ties to companies and saying negative things about modern controls could get him in trouble. Just because he's popular we have to excuse modern controls and be good sheep? I'm sorry, But no!
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and should be allowed to say why they do not like about modern controls.

been saying the same thing about modern as Max did in that video since the game came out.
you aren't losing because of the control scheme your opponent picked.
seemingly like yourself people just don't like the truth.