Modern controls exposed the brutal reality of skill issue.

[C1REX]

First of all I think the Modern Controls is a brilliant idea by Capcom.
It's also an obviously very hot topic that we have like 2 per page.

I think it unintentionally exposed how difficult Street Fighter is and how bad many long term fans are.

Here is the brutal truth:
- You complain about modern controls because YOU don't want to learn.
- You don't want to learn combos and you don't want others to be able to do any combos.
- You want 6 buttons layout so you can comfortably use just two of them - heavy punch and heavy kick. It makes you feel smart and experienced by using only top tier buttons.
- You want the same nostalgia feeling you had playing SF2 where doing an anti air DP was the peak of possible skill. Anything harder than that is just stupid.
- You want the game without combos, without move cancelling, without Drive Impact, without Drive Rush, Drive Reversal, Perfect Parry, throw loops, Shimmy and generally 90% of stuff people do from mid ranks and up.
- You want new SF2 - not SF6.

You don't want to learn. You pretend to use classic to improve when you do absolutely zero to improve. You've learnt no combos. You don't practice combo trials. You don't know bread and butter combos and don't want to learn them. You hope nobody in your ranks will do them. If they learn they are cheating smurfs.

Street Fighter is an insanely hard game. Maybe even too hard in modern standards. Maybe combos are too hard. Maybe newcomers should be able to do some basic combos in classic controls. Maybe the most basic stuff should be simplified so people can actually use them and actually play SF6 as intended - with combos and pressure. With all the tools the game has to offer.

I'm just a little bit fed up by this arrogant gatekeeping people at the lowest ranks who pretend they are better than others.

[RetroKid]

Originally posted by Teddy Roosevelt:

Originally posted by RetroKid:

That first paragraph is exactly what I'm talking about. How can you have fundamentals without fundamentals? That's like taking up actual fighting and then talking about what you're going to do. "When the guy swings, I'm going to duck and throw and overhead right and connect with his chin". But how are you going to do that if you don't know how to throw a punch or if you don't have the muscle memory to actually do what you think you can do? The fundamentals ARE the moves you use in response. Taking away the motions takes away the muscle memory and the skill, and leaves nothing but armchair EVO champs who start each sentence with, "I would have dp'd there, then followed with an optimal combo". It's easy to say, but CAN YOU DO IT? that's the reason we marvel at Daigo, not because he can hit combos. desk hits crazy combos but you don't see him making top 8. Daigo has combined the execution with the knowledge. You can't just modern control it and say, "yeah, I would have done that optimal combo. Give me the benefit of the doubt that I know the right thing to do and just assign me a button to do it with". It's retarded.

Except this ignores the clear fact that we have no M users in tournament. Because it doesnt actually give that kind of advantage. Or all the pros WOULD be using it. Because the prize pool is insane and theres no reason not to take any advantage you can.

You're trying to say that not having to focus on execution somehow makes you pro level or gives you clout enough to comment on pro play, when in reality the game is so much more than just execution of inputs, and people have always been the type to judge regardless of skill level. Nobody takes random opinions seriously UNLESS they are good.

No, what I'm saying is it skews what the meta of an actual fighting game is, which is about 2 players testing each other's ability under the heat of battle, pressure and nerves. That's the allure, right? To battle and see who wins?

One of the metas that's always happening is "testing" or "checking" your opponent, to see if they are capable of a particular skill when presented with a situation on the fly. For example, Player 1 wonders if player 2 has the SKILL and ABILITY to check a move that's quick, so they throw out move x. The round is almost over so both players are on high alert, as the next hit wins. Player 1 throws out a quick move, and Player 2 effortlessly counters with 1-button super. Is that fair? Does that actually demonstrate ability?

No one is making top 8 using modern, but it does give an unfair edge in a battle where it's close and it comes down to reaction, execution and timing. All of that is not necessarily taken away, but it is slightly mitigated by baby controls. I mean, reaction super is a cool feeling...but knowing it was as easy as pressing forward + button, versus 2 x qcf + p is worth more.

[ELDEN LORD]

Yall busy typing up a storm in these forums while a majority of us are actually playing and not complaining about anything.The only thing i dont like about the game is how they did lilly and ryu dirty. And i dont even play them. I dont have any issue with modern as i dont hardly ever see them above gold rank anyway.

[Tohtori_Jamba]

Thanks man, this is good post. I think we had few matches together with the author. Keep fighting the good fight. :)

I find Modern controls to be a blessing of the sort and I've been having my sweet time learning each character with them. Currently, I'm playing them with "cold turkey mode", as in I have had next to little or zero experience with most of the character cast (aside from Chun Li) and see what I can learn from the experience.

Now I can rather "learn by playing" and not doing research on youtube videos, puttings combos down on the notepad and labbing them for hours on end. So far I've put about 500 matches in ranked with all the characters and I have almost all, except Dhalsim, Zangief and JP in Silver. I have 6 characters standing in the gold at the moment and I feel like once in gold tier, I have to pick better grasp of fundamentals and learn few stable combos to get upper hand. Relying on just modern controls to do the autopilot job won't cut it anymore at that point.

I've sure had plenty losses by this way of playing but I feel like this way I can at least learn safe move / stable combos in better enviroment and hone my fundamentals on better level.
I'm also getting better in punishing whiffs and using overdrive in general.

[Mu'Ammar of Carthus]

Originally posted by C1REX-PL:

- You complain about modern controls because YOU don't want to learn.
- You don't want to learn combos and you don't want others to be able to do any combos.
- You want 6 buttons layout so you can comfortably use just two of them - heavy punch and heavy kick. It makes you feel smart and experienced by using only top tier buttons.
- You want the same nostalgia feeling you had playing SF2 where doing an anti air DP was the peak of possible skill. Anything harder than that is just stupid.
- You want the game without combos, without move cancelling, without Drive Impact, without Drive Rush, Drive Reversal, Perfect Parry, throw loops, Shimmy and generally 90% of stuff people do from mid ranks and up.
- You want new SF2 - not SF6.

I've just checked a replay against a modern control user, from someone around here who's been whining extremely often about modern controls.
And this is 100% true.

Dude plays Guile, seems to know zero combo, and all he ever does the whole match is sit in a corner waiting for an opportunity to flash kick.
And he lost two straight rounds against a Modern Cammy.

He plays Guile exactly how we used to play him in SF2 when we were kids.

[TheG]

Originally posted by Benkei Kuruma:

In the immortal words of the great Chad Warden, "We ain't doing geometry. We tryin to play some gaaaaames."

And that's what classic controls ain't got. It ain't got games.

I just want to have a good time here. If you want SF to be your life, have at it. I don't want to study all day and treat this like a professional sport. I got kids, a house, a job, a workout schedule and diet I try to maintain, and I'm tired. I don't have the stamina I used to, I don't have summer vacations. I be falling asleep playing games these days. If anything I feel like "sportifying" these games has turned me off from many of them over the years. Same goes for shooters and other genres.

Gimme those casual modern controls. I'm just tryin to play some gaaaaames.

Why do you need to launch combos to have a good time? I had great times in the old SF2 arcade era just mashing buttons and knowing nothing about the game.

The game is not less fun without being able to one button the complicated moves. You just win less.

So what you are saying is that you want a chance to win, as that is fun. Which means that you want a chance against people who have actually practiced. Which means that modern is a crutch to help you enjoy the game. And this is at the expense of people who aren't using Modern.

[RetroKid]

Originally posted by MisterChris:

Originally posted by Benkei Kuruma:

In the immortal words of the great Chad Warden, "We ain't doing geometry. We tryin to play some gaaaaames."

And that's what classic controls ain't got. It ain't got games.

I just want to have a good time here. If you want SF to be your life, have at it. I don't want to study all day and treat this like a professional sport. I got kids, a house, a job, a workout schedule and diet I try to maintain, and I'm tired. I don't have the stamina I used to, I don't have summer vacations. I be falling asleep playing games these days. If anything I feel like "sportifying" these games has turned me off from many of them over the years. Same goes for shooters and other genres.

Gimme those casual modern controls. I'm just tryin to play some gaaaaames.

Why do you need to launch combos to have a good time? I had great times in the old SF2 arcade era just mashing buttons and knowing nothing about the game.

The game is not less fun without being able to one button the complicated moves. You just win less.

So what you are saying is that you want a chance to win, as that is fun. Which means that you want a chance against people who have actually practiced. Which means that modern is a crutch to help you enjoy the game. And this is at the expense of people who aren't using Modern.

No offense, and I'm not saying that to excuse dickish words or attack you personally, but that's a child's mentality. Can I assume that we're all at least 20 years old on this forum? Because at that age, I'm going to assume there's a sense of fulfillment that goes into what you spend that precious time doing. I mean, yeah, you can twist the stick any which way while sliding your palm over all 8 buttons, but is that really fun to an adult? If it is, then I won't argue, but is it safe to assume none of us are doing that since we care enough to post on this forum?

Again, I could be wrong, but "I just want to have fun by doing whatever I want" just doesn't strike me as the rationale for any adult to sink in hours of their free time without any desire for improvement.

[Ahriman]

I respect players who make it far with Modern Controls because they are very rare and you still have to commit yourself to actually getting good at it like everyone else.

It's trivial to beat someone who's obviously a beginner/casual who picked up Modern Controls because it's easy to get started and make cool stuff happen. If you lose to players like that you shouldn't feel ashamed but you should take it as a lesson on how much you can still improve as a player. It should motivate you.

[agent101g]

Cool story, Modern is still a crutch.

[Kawalorn]

Originally posted by ShadowSplit:

Originally posted by Sid:

236p hadouken, 623p shoryuken.
6236p 65236p or 62365p will give will give you shoryuken because of the game's fuzzy ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, unless the 2 was held for 8 frames or 1/4 is input prior to it.

so it's not so much that 236 is used for shoryuken, but that 623 is prioritized over 236, the final 6 is ignored, and discarded, by definition, unused; therefor, 236 is not used for shoryuken.
this argument is obtuse and irrelevant to the conversation.

Your argument isn't obuse or irrelevant. It's testing.
I'm doing Shoryuken that way ever since I learned how to do it. Even dash in version, even tho that was more prominent in SFV due to its mechanics.

And like I said, quarter circle still can be used as Shoryuken. And Hadouken.

I find it hilarious you keep talking about the Shoryuken motion while deliberately avoiding explaining how they are supposed to teach you spacing compared to modern players having access to the exact same moves without the motion.

[FuscusNight]

I hope the new MK does this too, it would be funny as hell to watch this drama happen there too.

[Castyles]

Originally posted by FuscusNight:

I hope the new MK does this too, it would be funny as hell to watch this drama happen there too.

All them fighting games will give in to simple control OPTIONS, eventually. Which is a good thing.

I don't know which franchise started the trend, currently, but SNK did something of the sort with Samurai Shodown and King of Fighters XV.

[unclassified]

Originally posted by Castyles:

Originally posted by FuscusNight:

I hope the new MK does this too, it would be funny as hell to watch this drama happen there too.

All them fighting games will give in to simple control OPTIONS, eventually. Which is a good thing.

I don't know which franchise started the trend, currently, but SNK did something of the sort with Samurai Shodown and King of Fighters XV.

yeah, unfortunately. tekken 8 will have it too. the good thing on pc though, we still can play old ass other games or current without these mechanics "forerver" so they lose some customers, they gain some.

[Castyles]

Originally posted by unclassified:

yeah, unfortunately. tekken 8 will have it too. the good thing on pc though, we still can play old ass other games or current without these mechanics "forerver" so they lose some customers, they gain some.

It's just an option. Nobody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to pick what you don't want to.

Plus that sort of thing has quick fixes, anyway. They can either hide the control schemes for online matches or create special rooms based on the control scheme that you want. Done.

[RetroKid]

Originally posted by Kawalorn:

Originally posted by ShadowSplit:

Your argument isn't obuse or irrelevant. It's testing.
I'm doing Shoryuken that way ever since I learned how to do it. Even dash in version, even tho that was more prominent in SFV due to its mechanics.

And like I said, quarter circle still can be used as Shoryuken. And Hadouken.

I find it hilarious you keep talking about the Shoryuken motion while deliberately avoiding explaining how they are supposed to teach you spacing compared to modern players having access to the exact same moves without the motion.

The way hadoken and srk motions easily overlap really does affect spacing and control, and is one of the ways you can tell who's got a real grasp of the game. Watch Daigo, John Choi and Valle videos, where they walk back and forth throwing fireballs. It looks really easy, but you try doing it. Walking backwards into fireball is easy, but walking forward and then getting fireball is extremely difficult and the slightest incorrect input gives you srk, which obviously leaves you open to punish. Fireball is quick and isnt something you can react to, so having that poke be an option in midrange is great (again, see above players and where they throw fireballs), but it's also dangerous, and the slightest mistake can be deadly.

Now imagine that poke being a single button.

[netn10]

I'm on Gold and I can count on one hand the amount of Modern Controls I see. Also in tournaments. This topic is way overblown.