UE5 is a MAJOR problem.

[Jerk]

Just go and read this thread, as ONE example..
https://forums.unrealengine.com/t/new-3-22-2024-ue5-5-feedback-please-invest-in-actual-performance-innovations-beyond-frame-smearing-for-actual-games/1164987/23

[Jabberwocky]

I have played exclusively on UE5 in the beta test and can safely tell you that the new engine is not a problem at all for Manor Lords, quite the opposite. For the first time, it is possible to have towns with bigger populations without the engine running out of resources to calculate all AI tasks simultaneously. The game plays more stable and runs smoother without major hickups. So the "doom & gloom" angsty post you've linked to doesn't really apply here.

In any case, there is little else the devs can do since UE4 support is discontinued, and switching engines completely this late in the development process would force them to pretty much start over from scratch, which would put this game into an early grave.

[9erRed]

Greetings,

And Microsoft will no longer allow ue4 new applications or games on it's platforms.
- As stated there's no support for that engine anymore, so anything broken with it can no longer be fixed, patched,

There's also other system providers that also will no longer support ue4 apps or games.
- There was not much that can be done with it, and the new UE5 needed to be upgraded to.

Now, the ruining of games with it may be the developers NOT optimizing the engine for the game. Just allowing all the new components to be installed and not selecting ONLY the items with-in the new engine that should be turned on for each game.

- Similar to what Greg did with not running "nanite" for this game. To much of a system resource hog for what it brought to the game.

just saying

[Shadow]

I think this transition was complicated and the nuances you are eluding to are also the source of the odd graphics load to freeze and crash for some players like myself.... I put the 0.8.004 vs 0.7.795 file manifests through AI for a cursory review -

Indicators of the Unreal Engine 5 Transition:

New Additions Related to Rendering and D3D12

Added Files:
ManorLords/Binaries/Win64/D3D12/D3D12Core.dll (5.63 MiB)
ManorLords/Binaries/Win64/D3D12/d3d12SDKLayers.dll (9.08 MiB)

UE5 relies heavily on DirectX 12 to leverage features like Nanite (virtualized geometry) and Lumen (global illumination). The addition of D3D12 components in the new manifest shows that the rendering pipeline now includes explicit DirectX 12 support, which was optional in UE4 but becomes a core part of UE5, especially for leveraging advanced features.

Changes to DLSS and Plugins

The DLSS plugin location changed from being an engine-level plugin (Engine/Plugins/Runtime/Nvidia/DLSS) in UE4 to a project-level plugin (ManorLords/Plugins/DLSS) in UE5.

This change is consistent with how UE5 allows more granular control over plugins and integrates newer upscaling technologies like Temporal Super Resolution (TSR). The changes in the manifest suggest the integration of new graphics handling and optimization techniques that UE5 uses.

Modified Core Game Executable (ManorLords-Win64-Shipping.exe)

The working version has the game executable modified by +42.08 MiB.
This significant increase in the size of the executable could indicate that it has been rebuilt with the new UE5 runtime and dependencies, which would naturally add to the size due to new engine features, rendering enhancements, and other improvements included in UE5.

Additions of .dll Files for Enhanced Functionality

Added Libraries:
amd_fidelityfx_dx12.dll (6.18 MiB): FidelityFX is commonly used for advanced rendering, often related to AMD's GPU optimizations.
OpenImageDenoise.dll (47.47 MiB): This is an Intel library used for AI-based image denoising, likely added to support higher-quality rendering that UE5's Lumen might use for real-time illumination and ambient occlusion.

These libraries are consistent with UE5's focus on enhancing graphical fidelity, and such additions would support new features in rendering, like real-time denoising, better lighting effects, and general graphics optimizations.

Changes in Prerequisite Installer

The working version contains UEPrereqSetup_x64.exe (48.18 MiB), while the non-working version removed an older UE4PrereqSetup_x64.exe (39.13 MiB).
This implies an updated prerequisite installation process that may include newer DirectX 12 features, Visual C++ dependencies, and other elements needed for UE5’s capabilities. The increase in size and change in installer name indicates moving to a new set of runtime components for UE5.

Removed Mixed Reality and PhysX Libraries

In the non-working version, the PhysX3 libraries, as well as mixed reality DLLs (e.g., Microsoft.MixedReality.QR.dll), were removed. UE5 replaced PhysX with Chaos Physics, its custom physics and destruction system, which means PhysX is no longer necessary.
Similarly, Mixed Reality support was deemphasized, with UE5 focusing more on standard platforms like PC and next-gen consoles, which might explain the removal of these components.

Changes in pak Files

The game’s .pak files were significantly modified, with new versions like pakchunk0-Windows.pak replacing pakchunk0-WindowsNoEditor.pak:

This indicates a repackaging of assets to align with UE5's new asset processing pipeline.
Some .pak files have noticeable size changes, which may be due to updates for compatibility with Nanite and Lumen. For instance, these systems may require updated asset formats, leading to differences in .pak file content and size.
Steamworks Update

The transition from Steamv151 to Steamv157 may indicate an update to a version more compatible with UE5, ensuring that the game can properly leverage updated Steam APIs for online integration.

Key points to consider in relation to the changes made and the transition to UE5:

Unreal Engine 5 Specific Issues

Missing PhysX and Apex Libraries

UE5 no longer uses PhysX, as it has switched to the new Chaos Physics System. If the removed PhysX libraries are still referenced by the game (either in some legacy code or through configurations), this can cause the game to crash.

Action: Verify that all physics references are updated to use Chaos, and remove any PhysX dependencies that the engine no longer needs.

NVIDIA DLSS and Compatibility

Unreal Engine 5 has built-in support for new features such as Temporal Super Resolution (TSR), which might conflict with the older NVIDIA DLSS setup if not properly handled. The game may still try to use DLSS from UE4 configurations while UE5 might expect TSR, leading to crashes or graphical issues.

Action: Ensure that the game uses UE5-compatible upscaling (e.g., TSR) instead of relying on DLSS unless specifically updated for UE5.
Asset Changes (.pak Files)

UE5 comes with a new Nanite virtualized geometry system and Lumen for global illumination, which requires updated assets. If assets within .pak files were converted incorrectly or are missing critical changes for UE5 compatibility, the game may freeze during loading.

Action: Re-check the .pak files to ensure all assets are correctly updated for UE5. This includes ensuring they are compatible with Nanite and Lumen. UE4 asset formats may need migration tools or adjustments to work properly in UE5.
Removed Mixed Reality and Holographic Support

With UE5, certain Mixed Reality and Holographic components were removed. However, if the game’s initial configuration or startup sequence still attempts to initialize these features, it could cause the game to crash at startup.

Action: Remove any initialization code or configuration entries that reference Mixed Reality or Holographic Streaming components that are no longer compatible with UE5.
UE5 Prerequisites Setup

Unreal Engine 5 requires updated system dependencies. Removing the UE4PrereqSetup_x64.exe in the non-working version means that the necessary prerequisites might not be installed on systems running the non-working build.

Action: Use the new UE5 prerequisites installer to make sure all required components are installed, particularly for new rendering technologies like Lumen and Nanite.
Configuration Changes

The configuration files (e.g., .ini files) must be updated to reflect UE5 changes. The removal and addition of DLLs, such as those related to Steam or EOS, along with changes in physics engines and rendering settings, must be matched with configuration updates.

Action: Update and review all configuration files to ensure they align with UE5's new modules, plugins, and settings. In particular, ensure that paths, plugin references, and rendering settings (like TSR vs DLSS) are compatible.
Steam SDK Version Changes

Moving from Steamv151 to Steamv157 may have been necessitated by UE5 updates, but any incorrect integration with the game logic or leftover references from UE4 could cause crashes.

Action: Validate the Steam integration. Ensure all related components are updated to reflect the new SDK version and work with UE5's new API requirements.

Additional Recommendations for UE5 Migration
Use the UE5 Migration Tools: Unreal Engine provides migration tools to help update assets and settings for UE5. Make sure these tools are used to convert assets, especially those involving lighting and geometry, which are now impacted by Nanite and Lumen.

Update Plugins: Ensure that all plugins (DLSS, XeSS, etc.) are compatible with UE5. Some older versions of plugins might not be supported anymore or may require updates for UE5.

Rebuild from Source: Since the .exe files were modified, consider recompiling the project in UE5. This would ensure that all dependencies, including DLLs and plugins, are correctly linked for the UE5 engine.

Logs and Debugging: UE5 logs could provide crucial information regarding which features or components are failing during initialization. The Saved/Logs directory will have information about missing assets, plugin load failures, or deprecated functionality that could help pinpoint the exact cause of the crash.

Migrating from UE4 to UE5 is a significant change, and careful adjustments in both game assets and dependencies are necessary to ensure compatibility. The removed files, in this case, seem to include critical physics, rendering, and third-party dependencies that would be directly affected by the transition to the new engine. Proper migration, ensuring updated assets and eliminating outdated references, will be key to resolving the crash.

[EricHVela]

PhysX was updated once in the past 13 years (in 2022 and in 2011 prior, an 11-year distance). I don't blame Epic for dropping its support. It feels like there's one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel for PhysX. Since PhysX hasn't used a dedicated processing unit since 2011, there could easily be another software-based physics engine that's either just as good or better (or worse). While Epic and Nvidia have worked together, Epic still knows their engine better.

Also, a UE-embedded physics engine is futureproofed against 3rd party system drivers abandoning technologies. PhysX disappearing altogether wouldn't affect UE5 games, but all past PhysX-reliant games will be in trouble.

Of course, people can plugin PhysX into UE5, but Chaos is less demanding. The only reason to use PhysX in UE5 would be for shortcutting development with a known technology though old technology and sacrificing futureproofing.

Of course, that makes each UE5 game a little bigger in size since the physics engine will be embedded in the game, but I'll take the slight bump in bloat for being able to play the game if PhysX vanishes.

(Epic also included AMD and Sony specifically for UE5 which could alleviate some of the headaches AMD users experienced with the Intel/Nvidia-focused UE4—UE5 being more versatile. PhysX is ultimately Nvidia's design.)

Yes. UE5 can have tougher requirements, but it can also have lesser requirements given its increased modular nature (and UE4 was already highly modular).

ML is still developing. The move to UE5 was all but mandatory given the developer's targeted platforms. ML can make itself at home in UE5 but the initial move-in might need some furniture rearrangement.

(Bit of fun stuff: Chaos has a Metahuman-specific ragdoll feature. I toyed with the idea that they threw people down some stairs to study the simulation. It's pretty good, much better than standard limp ragdoll. More than ML would need, but it's a neat gimmick all the same.)