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I usually have a resonable amount of roads down before I place my first building. And it will take some practice and good planning before you can build a nice looking town.
Being able to plop down any building from the start takes away from the moment you can finally build it, and will result in a lot of people complaining on forums 'my workers won't build the apiary!'
I make nice organized towns, but not every town is going to look the same since the rich resources will be different in each region. I don't want to spend hours laying out each and every building and road meticulously in hopes that I can squeeze in a building I cant make yet into an efficient location in regards to other buildings that it works in line with. I don't want to have to memorize every buildings exact height and length in order to layout what my final town will look like. Using roads is going to take a lot of guess work. My aim is to suggest a system to get rid of that guess work since a massive part of the game is based around building towns. I feel like plopping down a patch of dirt to reserve a space won't take away from the moment you can actually build it since you still cant actually build it until you've progressed enough to do so. In fact you could argue that the patch of dirt being there would be a reminder of the fact that you cant build it yet. Its more so just to help with town planning. If I want a charcoal kiln next to my logging camp, but other buildings like the sawpit, hitching post, woodcutter lodge, etc, had to be built first then I just have to memorize the height and length in order to fit it nicely between everything? I feel like there has to be a better way around this.
I also understand that the idea may seem confusing to people, but much like all the text on screen when you don't have the proper requirements to upgrade a burgage plot, they can add some pretty simple text that tells you that you don't have enough materials or the proper development points to finish constructing the building. I think if that still confuses a person then they were probably going to be confused by anything else in the game regardless.
I'm not saying my exact idea should be implemented the way I pitched it, but I believe it would be a nice QoL change that would make the city building aspect simpler as far as planning goes. I don't think the idea should just be shot down.
It would be great to have this and be able to lay down a road with specific 'unit' lengths and maybe even a simple 90 degree angle setting for those that are more into the city building side of things.
That way you don't have to play whack-a-mole with the corpse pit measuring out the optimal burgage plot sizes and worrying about leaving the correct space for the church.
Is it medieval period accurate? Probably not, but neither is playing etch-a-sketch with the roads for hours trying to make it work.
I think that idea would also suffice honestly. But I still think my idea would work too and wouldn't be that hard to implement. It would work exactly like placing down a building currently in the game, but it just cant be built. They already have the dirt patch and dotted lines, but they just have to add the text tags that tell you the building cant be completed without the proper development points and/or materials. Which I do believe wouldn't affect its medieval periodic accuracy any more than how placing down your building currently works.
Like I said though, you're idea would work too and I would gladly take that over nothing. Like a grid that you can turn on and off and on each building option/description it tells you the grid measurements of each of them. That would work probably.
The Anno series allows for this type of "pre-Planning" or blueprint layout.
- Select the buildings, type, structure, whatever, and in the blueprint function it places a light ghost structure. You can orientate it however you like for placement and when happy go on to something else.
- When you have the resources available or need for the structure, the items that were "blueprinted" can be selected and built.
Looks simple in Anno but it's probably quite a bit of code work to have that option.
Yeah it seems like a good amount of these city builder type games have implemented this type of thing and I would just love to see it here as well. Even if it does take a while, I don't mind waiting for it and coming back to the game again in the future when it gets added.
Oh I'm not shooting your idea down, I'm just prodding it with a stick, as it should be ;)
But I'm also willing to entertain it.
Lets find a pratical, useful middle road.
How about, in the decorations tab, 3 sizes of buildable dirt patch? Free, enlarges the road, future upgradable to cobbelstone? 'wink wink to the dev'
Large fits a church, farm, clay furnace.
Medium is all storage buildings.
Small the minimal single home size, planks, woodcutter.
This game is advertised on its page as a organic city builder.
A suggestion has the best chances if it fits the theme.
What I suggested is actually so on theme that all of the elements are already in the current game. When you place a building down it always starts as a dirt patch before the building is built. That's all it has to be. The dev just needs to add proper labeling that tells you that the building cant be built yet until you have all of the proper development points and/or materials (Just like all the other buildings that currently have info when you click on them). Adding 3 sizes of dirt patch would be adding more things to the build menu and also won't cover the large range of building shapes/sizes that are in the game. I really don't think changing my idea to yours is a practical, useful middle road. No offense. I'm all for using your idea over nothing, but if you're changing my idea then I just don't see how you improved it.
I also think maybe since there are already white dotted lines (when placement location is valid) as well as red dotted lines (when placement location is invalid), the feature I'm suggesting could add yellow dotted lines for when the placement location is valid but you do not currently have the proper development points and/or materials to complete it. Then hopefully that would help differentiate all of the placed buildings. The white and red dotted lines are already a part of the game so yellow dotted lines should also be very very on theme. I added this additional note in a separate paragraph because I really wanted to keep it as simple as possible above so nobody gets confused.
Like so many "other" city builders the workers or populace travel along roads or paths laid out by the player and are restricted to be on these lanes.
- This game can have travellers, merchants, collection workers, and production workers walking and moving "anywhere" on the map. Through the woods, across the fields, nearly any route that gets them to where they need to be.
- If we had these "planning" locations laid down but not built it would need to be coded into the pathing of characters. Allowing them to cross these ground locations and not avoid them as if they were constructed.
Just a thought.
That's a very immersive thought. What do the villagers do currently while you have buildings that are currently placed but not built? I'm pretty sure they can still walk over them already. But even if they can't I don't think it would be a big deal if they avoided walking through the dirt patches where a building is going to be constructed. So I don't think they need to program that in. Unless thats just a feature you want them to program in. Not a bad thing.
So you want a dirt patch....as I suggested?
Maybe you are confused about the meaning of the word 'theme'?
The theme of this game is organic medieval city builder.
Dotted lines, no matter the colour, are a part of the building mechanics. That is a system, not a theme.
You are asking for a lot of work to be done for very little common benefit.
Time that could be used to further develop the game.
I am suggesting and addition to the exactly 1 decorative building we have (no extra tab needed) that could basically be one big road, it already mostly exist as you said and it has alround common value as a usable building.
I improved your idea to something a bid more realistic.
And really, what do you need you can't already build?
Thematically an apiary or charcoal burner should be build well outside your city (prepare, smell mechanic is coming), and that 3rd extra storehouse close to the main marketplace is only 2 wood mate. Placing more buildings then you are using atm really isn't that expensive, its just good planning. I regularly leave buildings empty for years.
Build it, surround it with a road, and delete. There is your space for future development.
I really don't know what's so unclear to you. I think you're going off on random tangents. Nothing I'm suggesting is adding any new items to the game so therefore doesn't affect the theme of the game at all. Also how is a QoL update that adds an easy and concise way to plan your city not on theme for a city builder game? Especially if it doesn't change anything visually about the game... I also suggested a dirt patch in my original post so idk how you think you suggested it before me. I also said dotted lines were on theme because somehow you thought my suggestion was off theme in the first place so I assumed you didn't understand what theme was. I really don't see how its a lot of work. Everything is already in the game. You don't even need to add 3 fixed sizes of dirt patches (which was your suggestion). That wouldn't even solve the issue since there are more than 3 sizes of buildings in the game. There's honestly so much that you seem to be confused about that I can't even begin to touch on all the corrections. Can you tell me exactly what you think my idea is? Cause I really don't think you get it. I feel like your first language may not be English based on your replies so maybe you can chalk it up to a simple language barrier.
I also don't have to play "thematically". If I want to place an apiary and charcoal kiln near/in my town to reduce villager travel time then I can absolutely do so. The smell mechanic doesn't exist in this game. You seem to be very into 'theme' and historical accuracy, but it's a game. People don't have to play it the way you want them to play it. They don't have to RP as Horald Vonsphincter the Master Craftsman of Heidel. And I never mentioned anything about storehouses cost/ storehouses in general being an issue (yet another random tidbit of irrelevance that you added in there).
And must I remind you this is a suggestions forum lol if the dev decides he has or doesn't have time for a request like this then that's all it is. If you think you have a suggestion that is better than mine then go post it. It just seems silly for you to come in here and vomit your narcissistic contrarian ideas on my suggestion. Get over yourself.
You don't seem to handle criticism very well.
My grasp of the English language is perfectly satisfactory, thank you. Should be, been reading and writing it for 30 years now.
And no its not my first language, I'm Dutch.
Your idea summarised:
You want to be able to place down any building from the start, without the prerequisite materials or development points, to better plan out your city.
How this is done, coloured dotted lines and dirt patches, is all secondary details.
Agreed?
Because I don't think I misunderstood this.
If I did, please explain short and concise.
(Or you could just, you know, place the actual building. That is the '2 logs for a storehouse' comment, covering all but the development point locked buildings)
You suggested the whole building itself as a dirt patch, I suggest 3 standart dirt patches that together can hold all buildings (well except a burgage plot with veggie extension), indicating you didn't understand me.
No, not every building will have its own, perfect spot.
Yes, there would be some extra room with some buildings, nothing is perfect.
That is why I called it a middle of the road solution.
I never claimed to be 'first' with anything.
I just build upon your idea, wich is fine.
You really don't see how it's a lot of work.
I don't think you have a lot of experiece with programming. I have almost none and can see this as an awfull amount of work and testing that could go to more important things. You want to change one of the games core systems. How could that nót be a lot of work?
Just because you can see it doesn't mean it can easly be retooled.
Yes you can place anything anywhere you want, that is in the game right now. You don't 'have' to do anything.
In the meantime, I would suggest you go to the building menu and page through the overlays. Here you will find things like water, emmer, barley, smell (not implemented yet) and fire hazard (not implemented yet). All of these where in the demo.
So be quite sure, the smell mechanic is coming. Wich is what I said.
But do feel free to stink up the place and burn down your town in the future.
Now on theme.
Play as you like. You bought it, you use it. No skin off my ears.
But the developer chose a theme and seems set to stick with it, happily enough.
And he seems to keep further restricting the game to be more thematic, wich I applaude.
The charcoal burner simply belongs outside of city limits, efficiency be damned.
You have to convince him if you want something, not me.
I don't nessecarily dislike your idea.
I only sought to simplify and strengthen it to give it a better, more realistic chance to be implemented, so everybody can enjoy a slightly better game.
And I can react to you suggestion however I like. That is also what this forum is for.
Oh and yes, I am a bid of a historical puritan. Up to the point I blacken my armor and detest high polished sets.
So, all that's left is to wish you the best of luck with your briliant, dead-on-arrival suggestion.
Tah tah
So what you're telling me is that I pretty much read you like a book. You can pretend like I was the one that needed to calm down since I called you out for being narcissistic, but in reality you're just extremely passive aggressive with a holier than thou attitude. You're so stuck up your own backside that you un-ironically said you 'detest' polished sets of armor lol we get it, your opinion is of such high class. That must subsequently imply that you're a scholar of the highest echelon. Oh and I can tell you tried a lot harder with the english this time, which is adorable.
You can say you tried to simplify, strengthen, blah blah blah, but you didn't. You changed the idea to one that didn't solve the problem as effectively as mine. If a 'middle ground' means that I change my suggestion to something that doesn't solve the issue I wanted solved in the first place then what would be the point? I posted my suggestion here and I have a vision of what I would like to be done for the reasons and way that I play the game. I honestly don't care if the dev decides he doesn't want to do it my way or even do it at all. I put the suggestion up in hopes that he might like the idea and work on it at some point in the future. It would be a nice QoL change. I'd also like to say that with your admitted "almost none" amount of programming experience, I would say you honestly don't know how hard it would be to add this in.
And as for my closing remarks:
I'm sorry to inform you, but 'briliant' is spelled with two L's. Which is doubly ironic because of how brilliant you think you are and how I just gave you the L you were missing (literally and metaphorically).
Unfortunately for you it takes several years of dedication to therapy for a measly 30-50% chance of improving your narcissism. And to make matters worse, full remission is relatively rare. Good luck pal. As the 40 year old fedora kid that you are, you're gonna need it.
Passive aggresive? Tends to happen when insulted. And it works rather well on you.
And as you started and continue with the hard insults, I'll allow myself some liberties.
And a free tip: next time, just say 'thats a resonable suggestion, but I like mine better.'
Saves the hassel.
By your omission I will take it I understood your suggestion perfectly well?
'You just don't understand me because your English is bad' is called coping.
Ooooh you found a small gramatical error, well done. Quite poetic, I'll give you that.
I don't think this is the L you think it is tho.
But I do hear grammar N*zi's are very popular at party's these days. You should try it on a girl sometimes, she'll love it.
Suggests to change core systems of a game to only suite his own playstyle, can't handle it if challenged in minor ways.
Yes, very self centered.
And 'almost none' is a lot more experience than 'I don't think its a lot of work'.
First google hit:
Due to their tendency to project, it is common for an abuser with strong narcissistic traits to ascribe the label of “narcissist” to their target, even claiming that the target is doing the very things that the person with NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) is doing to them.
You have an above average amount of data on narcisism. Personal experience?
Does it run in the family or is it just you?
Yeah I don't think the therapy took that well with you kid.
I give the tiniest hint of personal information and, in your anger and frustration, you simply cannot help yourself but turn it into some weak insult. Liking historical accuracy really isn't a strike against me.
Don't the kids have a word for anger and frustration these days?
What was it, triggered?
Username: MisterVanity
Nice.
So, in reality, it seem you are the triggered, coping, projecting little narcisist here.
Wich in good to know as it puts you in the categorie of 'easily ignored'.
(No promises tho as you are quite funny to talk too. Oh and a fedora is half a hat for fat, short, on the spectrum neckbeards like you. I wear an Australian ridershat wich is a rather practical piece of clothing instead of a useless acessory, so no points awarded there.)