Why the trees disappears when placing a building ? :-(

[Thomas_Mertzen]

If the game attempt to be realistic it would be much better to actually have cut the clear the wilderness before starting to build a building, a house or a field.

[Holo]

Not wrong.

[Linatan]

I saw a stream where raiders approached the player’s soldiers through the forest. The raiders were hidden, but he set up a field right on top of them, destroying the forest, and opening the raiders to archers.
Abuses like this clearly shouldn’t happen.

[Holo]

Originally posted by Linatan:

I saw a stream where raiders approached the player’s soldiers through the forest. The raiders were hidden, but he set up a field right on top of them, destroying the forest, and opening the raiders to archers.
Abuses like this clearly shouldn’t happen.

High IQ gaming. He just wasted all those trees so it had a cost.

['Araturo]

Originally posted by Linatan:

I saw a stream where raiders approached the player’s soldiers through the forest. The raiders were hidden, but he set up a field right on top of them, destroying the forest, and opening the raiders to archers.
Abuses like this clearly shouldn’t happen.

Nah, I love it when there's cheese like that in a game. The game is balanced around not having to cheese it. You have a perfectly fine game and have fun without cheesing, you are never forced to do it... But seeing it work makes for some funny clips we can all laugh about.
Learn some impulse control my 4 year old stranger

[Comrade Rat]

I'm not a fan of simply being able to remove an entire forest and delete it magically. Especially when you can remove a forest concealing an approaching band of raiders. The feature should be disabled when there are bandits in the region to prevent the cheese. Or the option should be a difficulty toggle in the settings.

[Holo]

Originally posted by Comrade Rat:

I'm not a fan of simply being able to remove an entire forest and delete it magically. Especially when you can remove a forest concealing an approaching band of raiders. The feature should be disabled when there are bandits in the region to prevent the cheese. Or the option should be a difficulty toggle in the settings.

Just don't do it.

[OneNineDeepSilence]

Every such choice has pros and cons. No matter what variant is picked, there are downsides to it: want to cut down the trees manually, spend time on it? Have to balance time around that, winter is coming and the clock is ticking. Above all, the whole experience has to be fun.

From the start of the game, some realism is given up: you get some resources and some homeless people, and it's spring, and the land is yours with some resources around. That's not how most places started, and took far longer than 1 year to start it. This is made simple and gamey because it's practical. Otherwise how long would take to level the ground, clear up bushes and rocks, and bring experts to check the soil: where is underground water, what can be planted where, and then start making roads... with the given starting manpower and resources, that would be impossible.

The "abuse" described here it's not a problem, if happens in a single player mode. Also don't watch clowns streaming games, if bothers you; I saw once a guy with a barrel mod in Skyrim, city folks and guards had a barrel instead bodies, and he had a laugh. I wouldn't do that, would kill the game for me in an instant. But whatever is fun for one, may not be for others. Just don't do it if it's not your thing, and let others have it.

[Holo]

Originally posted by OneNineDeepSilence:

Every such choice has pros and cons. No matter what variant is picked, there are downsides to it: want to cut down the trees manually, spend time on it? Have to balance time around that, winter is coming and the clock is ticking. Above all, the whole experience has to be fun.

From the start of the game, some realism is given up: you get some resources and some homeless people, and it's spring, and the land is yours with some resources around. That's not how most places started, and took far longer than 1 year to start it. This is made simple and gamey because it's practical. Otherwise how long would take to level the ground, clear up bushes and rocks, and bring experts to check the soil: where is underground water, what can be planted where, and then start making roads... with the given starting manpower and resources, that would be impossible.

The "abuse" described here it's not a problem, if happens in a single player mode. Also don't watch clowns streaming games, if bothers you; I saw once a guy with a barrel mod in Skyrim, city folks and guards had a barrel instead bodies, and he had a laugh. I wouldn't do that, would kill the game for me in an instant. But whatever is fun for one, may not be for others. Just don't do it if it's not your thing, and let others have it.

This is all very true, I was considering expanding but you pretty much wrote the exact thing. Manpower limitations, are something to consider. Requiring the clearing of land would also make the current hardcore mode most definitely impossible to beat because it starts in winter. It would also of course be gamey because it would promote the gameplay style where a player simple cuts the path for their village out of a forest, and nobody would ever be playing on the plains that are present in maps. Overall its one of those things that sounds good on paper, and may even be good, but is hard to implement better than the current system while being fair.

[R potato]

It is a choice to exploit those sort of mechanics in a singleplayer game but it is nice to remain immersed and not be tempted by glaring obvious gamified meta like that. It's not very high priority but I'd still sonner these exploits be closed.

[Thomas_Mertzen]

I hope it will come out with an Iron Mode where players cannot makes the trees disappear. Personnaly speaking.

[Anthracite]

Would I prefer if the game was more realistic in that trees couldn't simply disappear? Yes. That said, like others, I intend to try clearing areas with a forester so as to avoid that cheese so it's not a big deal.

[Thomas_Mertzen]

Originally posted by Anthracite:

Would I prefer if the game was more realistic in that trees couldn't simply disappear? Yes. That said, like others, I intend to try clearing areas with a forester so as to avoid that cheese so it's not a big deal.

This wouldn't mean that you should not be able to place a building on the forested area. I see it like in Tropico 1 when the construction worker would actually have to cut the trees before starting building something. I would make the forest an actual thing/ obstacle in the game.

[Anthracite]

Originally posted by Thomas_Mertzen:

This wouldn't mean that you should not be able to place a building on the forested area. I see it like in Tropico 1 when the construction worker would actually have to cut the trees before starting building something. I would make the forest an actual thing/ obstacle in the game.

As I say, I'd prefer it that way, and of course everyone is welcome to their feedback, but others have made some good reasons for why it's not a feature (too much realism being annoying rather than engaging etc.). I already play a game (Ostriv) where you have to manually cut down every tree and I can imagine it might go too slowly for the pace of the game, especially since Ostriv has 0 combat and ML has sudden, intense combat. I'm going to wait for the game to come out before I make my decision on whether insta-clear is good or bad in this game though.

[Pestilence]

Agreed.

[Linatan]

Originally posted by Holo:

Originally posted by Comrade Rat:

I'm not a fan of simply being able to remove an entire forest and delete it magically. Especially when you can remove a forest concealing an approaching band of raiders. The feature should be disabled when there are bandits in the region to prevent the cheese. Or the option should be a difficulty toggle in the settings.

Just don't do it.

It's not like that. It is quite normal for a citybuilder to automatically remove trees during development, simplified construction, I get it. But this is too much when you can place stuff over the heads of hostile units.