Marketplace Stalls Being Empty

[Burning like KELT-9b]

Any ideas how to solve this? somehow some houses have literally no access to food and firewood, while my surplus food and firewood have reached 6k and 1k already. i tried building marketplaces near those problematic housing plots yet somehow they just keep building stalls that end up permanently empty. i also tried building extra granaries there to aid with the resource transport to the point of putting maximum human resource there yet they just decided to open more empty stalls instead.

the logistics in this game is can be pretty abstract and wonky, and not even much explanation could be found on the help section either.

[Saorsa]

Originally posted by Hugh Erick Sean:

Originally posted by Saorsa:

I have just retested my advice with 27 plots. It works.

The market trader delivers 27 of each product from the first to the last house, then go back and try to deliver 27 of the next item from first to last house. (Which they can’t because the stall only holds 50 total) so then there will be 2 houses missing the second item, if all houses are level 1, this is only an issue with food (only resource where they want 2 of everything)

The best solution I’ve found so far is multiple storage with an individual market stall for that storage right next to it (I don’t bother if it’s next to the houses as that doesn’t really seam to matter)

I have 3 Grannaries (small) 1 only accepts berries and has its own market place, 1 only accepts meat and has its own market place and 1 only bread and has its own market place. This means each market stall has 27 of the items and delivers them to the 27 plots.

I have 2 warehouses 1 with leather and 1 with boots - each with their own market stall again no issues with delivering to all houses.

I have another warehouse for only charcoal with its own market stall. (I can’t remember if fuel supply increases at level 3 house plot- if it does I’ll open another warehouse and build a new market stall as if I need to deliver 27 x 2, then I need 2 stalls)

This also helps when you are producing goods as the 1 storage family I have is only having to fetch from 1 production area and makes everything quicker.

I don’t have lots in storage, there is no point, once I’ve produced enough of an rss, I take that family out! I have free workers because o have no need to produce more
Edit: if I have any backyard production, I make sure that family is not my storage family and if it’s say carrots, they have their own storage and stall. And I pause the carrots when I have enough in storage.

100% coverage

I would still like the system tweaked but it does work!

thanks a lot! an actual solution with experiment as proof and straight numbers! definitely easier to understand than some abstract advices that dont even actually work. i'd consider this as the best answer should people experience the same problem.

Sorry not the answer! I Mis counted my plots and although I had 27 houses I only had 12 plots - it was working perfectly until I built the 13th plot and upgraded houses to level 3 then I realised I can’t hold 13 x 4 items of food in a market stall and I realised only one market stall had been running and they were going to each storage for the different food.

There was zero problem with the other fuel and clothing market stalls! But food is a problem. Sorry for confusion can you please unmark this as an answer?

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by Rebel Syntax:

Don't let your warehouse workers come from households that run orchards or gardens. You have to really micro the responsibilities that families have cause otherwise, constantly adding and removing families randomly based on supply and demand is going to bork your logistics. I realized something wasn't right when I had a massive row of 5 upgraded store houses just to keep the stalls manned. I am like, why do I need to be able to store 10,000 items just to keep 40 items in my market stall perpetually? derp.. cause the store house workers had other things to do besides run goods, like harvest the veggie farms or randomly help with construction and ox tasks.

I’ve spent many hours tweaking logistics and micro managing families. The conclusion is that market stalls simply don’t hold enough of each good, relative to occupied burgage plots. There’s a possibility that the dev has tweaked it like this on purpose so that outlying houses have a harder time upgrading compared to the town centre. I hope this isn’t the case.

[Blaiyze]

The key to remaining fully stocked is thus:

The ratio is # of burgages (not counting houses) x the amount of product.
This is why having 2 houses on a single lot is a smart setup.

So. Let's assume you have 10 burgage lots, regardless of what level they are.
Each market stall is going to need 10x each product they sell.

Fuel stall: 10x firewood, 10x charcoal
Clothing stall: 10x leather, and if you have higher needs, 10x each other item
Same with the food stall: 10x each type of food your town produces.

If your town produces 3 types of food, that means ONE food stall can support 16 burgage lots. 50/3 = 16
You only need to add market stalls as they reach their 50 storage maximum.

Logistics: it's preferable, especially early on, to have your granary and storehouse workers own and operate a market stall, otherwise your production is being directly affected.

Market stalls DO NOT need to be close to houses. Houses farthest away will restock slower, but can still be supplied by a distant market so long as you're able to keep that market fully stocked.

Logistics of keeping the market stocked: market MUST be close to your storage facilities. Beyond that, your crafters should also be close to the storage buildings because they pull their ingredients from those buildings.
There is no market range like in Banished, throw that idea right out the window.

Your supply can get bottlenecked in a few different places:
At the gathering source if you have resource gatherers running a stall/not working.
Build burgage lots closer to workplaces, just like in Banished. The closer they are to their workplace, the less walking distance they have, the faster they get their job done.

At the storehouse/granary point, either by being understaffed here, or your workers are having to run crazy distances constantly to restock. If this is happening, either add more workers or drop down another storage building closer to the nodes that are furthest away.

At the market level because your peddler and stall owners are spending too much time walking a far distance to resupply. The storage buildings should be as close to them as possible, preferably right next/across the street from them.

Market coverage is just that, coverage. When you see a family missing an item, check two things:
Does the market stall have the full amount needed? (in the above example, 10x of whatever product. Count your lots. The stalls DO NOT stock more product than # of burgage lots).
Check the date, did it just start a new month? If this is the case, people went shopping and picked up items they need, they're in transit and the stall will re-balance itself.
A lot of this is resolved by waiting. The economy adjusts.

The only time not having full coverage becomes an issue, where you have a bottleneck going on somewhere, is when it has been that way for months and people are actively tossing complaints. Otherwise, just check your supply chains and logistics routes, make sure your workers can get their jobs done efficiently, that you have enough workers, and they're not getting hung up with too much movement.

[Rebel Syntax]

Originally posted by Lateralus:

Originally posted by Rebel Syntax:

Don't let your warehouse workers come from households that run orchards or gardens. You have to really micro the responsibilities that families have cause otherwise, constantly adding and removing families randomly based on supply and demand is going to bork your logistics. I realized something wasn't right when I had a massive row of 5 upgraded store houses just to keep the stalls manned. I am like, why do I need to be able to store 10,000 items just to keep 40 items in my market stall perpetually? derp.. cause the store house workers had other things to do besides run goods, like harvest the veggie farms or randomly help with construction and ox tasks.

I’ve spent many hours tweaking logistics and micro managing families. The conclusion is that market stalls simply don’t hold enough of each good, relative to occupied burgage plots. There’s a possibility that the dev has tweaked it like this on purpose so that outlying houses have a harder time upgrading compared to the town centre. I hope this isn’t the case.

Store houses store, markets distribute. If you have 1 item to distribute, lets say carrots and 51 plots, you need 2 market stalls, right? But not only do you need 2 market stalls, you must ensure that 51 carrots are moved from storage to the distribute node every month.

If you only move 50 carrots to the distribution node in the month, one house will be without carrots.

a store house has 4 worker slots. each worker moves 10 carrots. if a worker can move 10 carrots a month, you now need 2 store houses in order to get the extra worker needed, but wait, you actually need 6 workers cause that 1 extra carrot for the 51st plot wont move itself.

Thats just one item. Consider you can have 2 different types of food. The problem just expands upon itself.

[Dietre]

I use to struggle with the markets and thought they were broken as hell, Although I do agree that markets should just stock up, it takes away from actually have to think about the game, the mechanics do work if you set it correctly, ive gotten 80 plots, 15 of em T3 with 100% coverage.
Couple of tips i have come across to help, use the starting tent as the work tent, cheesy but you basically get 5 families to work for the cost of 1, double plots are your friend. again 2 fam for one supply. DON"T fully man granaries/storehouses, use one more family (to run a market stall) than how many carts are available. cart runner will take like 10 units per trip while a person carrying the goods is 1 each. a market across the street is ok for this, but if your maxing out the work slots, that like 2/3 familes with no carts, so build another granary and have those 2 in there , they get carts. this really helps with storehouses getting goods from the trader. Until we can build more carts to supply the buildings dont be afraid to build more work places and specialize them.

As stated above, and ps, listen to Blaiyze, DONT over kill the markets its wasted time supply 1 here 2 units there, just pack it all into one. Although markets basically have regional range the people still need to visit for goods, so this where you have to think about where your placing them. and yes, good advice to not to have back yard food on logistic workers. I am not sure if they need to tend to the goats/chicken other than running out and spreading home food, but def not orchards or carrots.

Also, have a few extra families as unassigned, it seems to help moving goods around.

[jawwagner]

Market stalls are tied to production buildings instead of family 's , so every time you change workers to other jobs they give up their stalls . Hope they change it so the stall stays with the family

[Ruffio]

Originally posted by jawwagner:

Market stalls are tied to production buildings instead of family 's , so every time you change workers to other jobs they give up their stalls . Hope they change it so the stall stays with the family

You would want grannary and storehouse workers to be in control of the market stalls as much as possible though. they move goods much faster with their carts, and you get less effiency out of production buildings if part of the family is occupied with running a market stall.

[Dietre]

Originally posted by jawwagner:

Market stalls are tied to production buildings instead of family 's , so every time you change workers to other jobs they give up their stalls . Hope they change it so the stall stays with the family

NEVER let a production family open a stall, with the exception of a cobbler house, because they go on crack mode and produce way to many shoes, slowing them down can be helpfull.

[Lateralus]

I’ve been able to achieve 100% coverage briefly, but that doesn’t change the fact that stalls need to stock a higher amount, like in an earlier version of the game. It doesn’t make any logical sense that the market stall target stocking rate is equal to burgage plots. This doesn’t provide any buffer room. It may have been intentional, in which case it’s just broken.

[Blaiyze]

Originally posted by Silence Suzuka:

I have the same issue too.
I have 1.1K food in my granary. I have 6 families working in that granary. But I have 5 families right beside the market starving because no one refill the stall there.

I will say instead of having each producing facilities make a stall, Let us assign families to the market and let them go collect foods and goods from near by places.

Check which family is operating that food stall. It sounds like they're too busy off doing other things. Do they have a vegetable or orchard backyard extension? If they do, check to see if they're busy harvesting/lplowing/sowing etc, if they are, unassign them from their workplace so they can focus on just doing that. Those backyard plots take a lot of time.

Beyond that, make sure the person operating the stall is a storage/granary worker, they're the most efficient at restocking.
After that, make sure your granary and storehouse are literally right next or across the road from the market stalls. If they're too far away then your staff is constantly travelling to refill the stall.

After that, make sure you don't have too many stalls.
count your burgage lots. Not the houses, count the lots themselves.
If you have 10 burgage lots, your stalls need to stock 10x each product. So your food stall, let's say your town produces eggs, berries, and meat. Your food stall will need to stock 10 berries, 10 eggs, 10 meat, to supply your 10 burgage lots.

If you have too many stalls staffed by the wrong workforce, you're going to hit a bottleneck.
After that, check the rest of your logistics train.

Production/crafting/resource buildings should be close to a storage building, and resource gatherers obviously need to be near the resource.

You probably have a bottleneck somewhere in your logistics chain.

[Rebel Syntax]

Originally posted by Lateralus:

I’ve been able to achieve 100% coverage briefly, but that doesn’t change the fact that stalls need to stock a higher amount, like in an earlier version of the game. It doesn’t make any logical sense that the market stall target stocking rate is equal to burgage plots. This doesn’t provide any buffer room. It may have been intentional, in which case it’s just broken.

it helps to think of market stalls as the delivery driver. If you order a pizza, the driver is only going to bring enough pizza on your delivery that are in his route. He's not going to bring the entire pizza shop with him every time he needs to deliver your pizza. In fact, don't even think of market stalls as storing anything at all.

The numbers are just there to tell you how many units it can server per month. thats how I think of them.

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by Rebel Syntax:

Originally posted by Lateralus:

I’ve been able to achieve 100% coverage briefly, but that doesn’t change the fact that stalls need to stock a higher amount, like in an earlier version of the game. It doesn’t make any logical sense that the market stall target stocking rate is equal to burgage plots. This doesn’t provide any buffer room. It may have been intentional, in which case it’s just broken.

it helps to think of market stalls as the delivery driver. If you order a pizza, the driver is only going to bring enough pizza on your delivery that are in his route. He's not going to bring the entire pizza shop with him every time he needs to deliver your pizza. In fact, don't even think of market stalls as storing anything at all.

The numbers are just there to tell you how many units it can server per month. thats how I think of them.

Yes, I understand how it works, I've spent 40 odd hours testing all sorts of layouts, reading posts, and watching streams. I can get it to 100% coverage briefly, with some tedious and goofy micromanagement. But what I'm explaining is why it's broken. I think the fix is relatively simple: Just allow the market stalls to stock about 20% more of each good. This will provide a buffer during higher demand.

During my research I found a Reddit post where the developer commented on this topic. He said in an early version of the game, markets could stock an unlimited amount of each good. But what happen was, some goods would over fill, which meant other goods couldn't reach the market. So before launch into early access he changed it to the current system where the market stalls can only stock one of each good, equal to the number of burgage plots.

I also suspect that he wanted a system where outlying burgage plots had a harder time upgrading compared to the village centre. But I'm only speculating now.

[Rebel Syntax]

Originally posted by Lateralus:

Originally posted by Rebel Syntax:

it helps to think of market stalls as the delivery driver. If you order a pizza, the driver is only going to bring enough pizza on your delivery that are in his route. He's not going to bring the entire pizza shop with him every time he needs to deliver your pizza. In fact, don't even think of market stalls as storing anything at all.

The numbers are just there to tell you how many units it can server per month. thats how I think of them.

Yes, I understand how it works, I've spent 40 odd hours testing all sorts of layouts, reading posts, and watching streams. I can get it to 100% coverage briefly, with some tedious and goofy micromanagement. But what I'm explaining is why it's broken. I think the fix is relatively simple: Just allow the market stalls to stock about 20% more of each good. This will provide a buffer during higher demand.

During my research I found a Reddit post where the developer commented on this topic. He said in an early version of the game, markets could stock an unlimited amount of each good. But what happen was, some goods would over fill, which meant other goods couldn't reach the market. So before launch into early access he changed it to the current system where the market stalls can only stock one of each good, equal to the number of burgage plots.

I also suspect that he wanted a system where outlying burgage plots had a harder time upgrading compared to the village centre. But I'm only speculating now.

here is my research. I have been stable like this. I have 2 food market stalls. I have a stockpile of berries. I farm carrots and eggs.

My worker distribution is 4 granary workers in the central store house between the two food stalls, with two of those running the stalls. 1 granary worker manning the eggs that rarely seem to get filled. *Edit to say* I just realized it is getting filled but whats happening is that they are being dumped into the distribution node and gobbled up quickly. I just need to shift my egg storage to the other side so they don't eat those too. I will probably need to add one more carrot farm tho to compensate. I want my pop eating carrots only heh.^^

The rest focused on the timber/charcoal industry.

I have run thru 2 full winters like such. You will notice one market stall. the left one, only has carrots, this is technically the closest one to distribution center.

What you wont see cause this is a screen cap, but is evidence by the bread in the right stall. the right stall never gets distributed from. This is technically the farther from distribution center.

So, i am not harvesting nor selling my berries, that value remains constant (like the bread). I am stock piling eggs and carrots. Eggs because they don't eat them, and carrots because my farms produce a surplus to what is being eaten daily.

As you can see, I have food items distributed such as berries to every house even tho I am neither harvesting or selling them.

make of it what you will, but this is not a bug or a broken system, this is just how the game works. You need to understand distribution and how your markets are stocked, hint, its thru warehouses and not the actual market.

I could add any other food item i wanted to the granary on the right all of them in fact, and just let my people eat carrots, (or whatever I wanted to put at the center of the distribution) and have 100% coverage and stockpile the rest. I will share that one with you later once I get my apples and honey up and running, or maybe I will just buy them, but not sure if I will be able to buy enough to get the distribution right we shall see.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3238069656

[Alliehotass]

No nothing works......I have my Storehouse with 402 Firewood, in that Storehouse are 4 Families all having a firewood Stall literally 10 meters from the Storehouse. Each of those Stalls has less than 15/50 firewood.....( I dont know what the ../50 is for, they never fill to 50 and never go over 15.
In total there are 5 firewood stalls in my Centrally placed Market 10 meters away from both the Large Storehouse and Granery..... those 5 firewood stalls have.... 6/50...5/50...0/50...0/50...0/50.
My Woodcutters Lodge has 3 Families working in it and they each have a Firewood stall in the Market.
This is ridiculous!.....
The game should be using what is in the Storehouse and taking it from there to totally fill each stall to its 50..this isnt happening.
Why should I have (5) Firewood Stalls in the Market when I could have just (1) filled to 50 and supplying my Houses. Why cant a Family living in a House not that far from the Market walk to a filled stall and get their Firewood..They walk miles everywhere else to do ♥♥♥♥.
Its obviously Bugged.
By what everyone is saying im going to need another Woodcutters Lodge with probably another 3 Families all with Stalls adding another 3 Stalls to the Market and each probably having less than 15 Wood in them...How many Firewood stalls do I need in the Market? 20? LOL I should need 1 or 2 thats it, each filled to 50 like the number says.......currently they all have (0)
This is clearly Bugged.
I have plenty of firewood in the Storehouse on the Markets doorstep and the Market is central to all my houses...it is filled with working Families all having Firewood Stalls and most are empty......disregarding that...4 Families working in it should easily be able to keep a single Stall filled...they clearly are Not so the game mechanics are Broken...Why does each family working in the Storehouse need to have a Market Stall? Cant they work it out that a single Stall or 2 should be enough if filled to 50.
Theres nothing else i can do that makes any sense.

Like Dietre said "its dumb AF"

Tell me what is wrong with this?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3238077453

[rosablanka]

I usually do few houses without an extension just for that, to assign those families in more time consuming tasks.
Also, while in production buildings I assign 1 family (as a starter), all the extra free families I assign to either storehouse or granary. And yes, the closer they are to the markets, the better.