Marketplace Stalls Being Empty

[Burning like KELT-9b]

Any ideas how to solve this? somehow some houses have literally no access to food and firewood, while my surplus food and firewood have reached 6k and 1k already. i tried building marketplaces near those problematic housing plots yet somehow they just keep building stalls that end up permanently empty. i also tried building extra granaries there to aid with the resource transport to the point of putting maximum human resource there yet they just decided to open more empty stalls instead.

the logistics in this game is can be pretty abstract and wonky, and not even much explanation could be found on the help section either.

[Don Cool]

I think there is a problem with market stall owners getting stuck with their market stall.

If you have a firewood chopper and he gets a stall he is now the proud owner of a business. He will continue to own that firewood stall forever, even if he switches job which means you may end up with a lot of empty stalls. Deleting them just causes the nearest villager to build it again.

I have a ludicrous amount of stalls owned by people that are no longer in that business, you can reassign them manually though but the tool tip on the family doesn´t state which type of business he/she owns. So, it becomes guesswork .... you just know that the guy working as a builder owns a store, just not which type.

[Martin]

Originally posted by Hugh Erick Sean:

Any ideas how to solve this? somehow some houses have literally no access to food and firewood, while my surplus food and firewood have reached 6k and 1k already. i tried building marketplaces near those problematic housing plots yet somehow they just keep building stalls that end up permanently empty. i also tried building extra granaries there to aid with the resource transport to the point of putting maximum human resource there yet they just decided to open more empty stalls instead.

the logistics in this game is can be pretty abstract and wonky, and not even much explanation could be found on the help section either.

Everytime you assign someone to the granary or store they build a stall in the market, if you remove them or refresh the granary ie upgrade it, the stall eventually goes empty, just select the stall and destroy it.

[Don Cool]

Originally posted by Martin:

Everytime you assign someone to the granary or store they build a stall in the market, if you remove them or refresh the granary ie upgrade it, the stall eventually goes empty, just select the stall and destroy it.

Every time I destroy an empty stall it just gets rebuilt remaining empty.

[laveley]

Originally posted by Airborneguy:

Anyone finds a good work around please bump back to top?

Originally posted by Silence Suzuka:

I have the same issue too.
I have 1.1K food in my granary. I have 6 families working in that granary. But I have 5 families right beside the market starving because no one refill the stall there.

I will say instead of having each producing facilities make a stall, Let us assign families to the market and let them go collect foods and goods from near by places.

If you have 1k food in storage, your problem is distribution and logistics, not production.

Unnasign everyone from your production buildins, build another 3 to 4 granaries/stores right besides your market and put every family you can in them. Also, make sure they are running the stalls, not the families on the production buildings still producing.

i guarantee you that if you do that you will have at least 80% requirements across the board, but most likely almost 100% for the three resources, provided you have them is stock.

The main mistake here is that you guys are overestimating production to the detriment of logistics, you actually need very little workers producing in comparison to logistics/distribution. I would say at the very least a 50/50 ratio.

[Burning like KELT-9b]

Originally posted by laveley:

Originally posted by Airborneguy:

Anyone finds a good work around please bump back to top?

Originally posted by Silence Suzuka:

I have the same issue too.
I have 1.1K food in my granary. I have 6 families working in that granary. But I have 5 families right beside the market starving because no one refill the stall there.

I will say instead of having each producing facilities make a stall, Let us assign families to the market and let them go collect foods and goods from near by places.

If you have 1k food in storage, your problem is distribution and logistics, not production.

Unnasign everyone from your production buildins, build another 3 to 4 granaries/stores right besides your market and put every family you can in them. Also, make sure they are running the stalls, not the families on the production buildings still producing.

i guarantee you that if you do that you will have at least 80% requirements across the board, but most likely almost 100% for the three resources, provided you have them is stock.

The main mistake here is that you guys are overestimating production to the detriment of logistics, you actually need very little workers producing in comparison to logistics/distribution. I would say at the very least a 50/50 ratio.

the only thing that most people are overestimating here is the competence of the logistic workers in this game. the fact that you had to mention the absurd amount of 50/50 production to distribution already speak volumes of how terrible the logistic aspect of this game. ive noticed that what the logistic workers could carry are terribly low compared to even a family could produce in a production building. this is even made worse due to the fact that a logistic worker has so many tasks and it increases with distance they need to travel.

believe me, ive already tried your solution and i quickly ran into several problems; first, artisans can open stalls and good luck unassigning it. second, youll quickly find yourself with workforce shortage due to how manpower consuming those logistics buildings are. if not due to the fact im abusing veggie + apple's stupid high yields i doubt i could even feed my citizens using the unreliable and also manpower consuming farming method. not to mention that i need to produce stuff and trade too. third, even if i unassigned the production families from having market stalls, somehow they will still take the priority of manning the stalls instead of the logistic workers. this is even worse when you stop building marketplace plots, the production families who have not owned a stall will keep terrorizing you to build one.

at this rate, its more of a game issue rather than skill issue. if i may add some easy solution to at least relieve some of these problems, it would be tweaking the carry capacity of the logistic workers and adding more family capacity because only 6 families for large granary and 4 for large storagehouse is not enough, we should be only building those if we truly need the extra storage or reaching far away places.

[OΛ ¦ WatchOuTx]

Originally posted by Hugh Erick Sean:

Any ideas how to solve this? somehow some houses have literally no access to food and firewood, while my surplus food and firewood have reached 6k and 1k already. i tried building marketplaces near those problematic housing plots yet somehow they just keep building stalls that end up permanently empty. i also tried building extra granaries there to aid with the resource transport to the point of putting maximum human resource there yet they just decided to open more empty stalls instead.

the logistics in this game is can be pretty abstract and wonky, and not even much explanation could be found on the help section either.

Hello,

I didnt read through all the comments yet, I will just tell you how i kinda solved this problem a few hours ago:
If you start new, dont allow your villagers to store critical Resources like Boots, Leather, Firewood or Ale in your Storehouse/Granery. If you do this they will bring it to their market stalls and fill those up instead of delivering everything to the storehouses/granerys
If you already are in an existing game and dont want to start new again, have a look at your market stalls. Find one that is filled up and move it to a different market location that is closer to the houses that need materials or food.
Also give it some time, they do need to get used to new restrictions or replacements, dont expect everything to be solved in a few seconds, after 1 or 2 months everything went well in my large town after distributing the market stalls and restricting items that i dont want to have inside my store houses.
I am currently experimenting with "1-Lined" Market-Stalls and placing houses to the left and to the right, probably that will help to supply the houses better until this problem is fixed.
Hope i could help, have fun!

[Cmdr D.]

Originally posted by Hugh Erick Sean:

Any ideas how to solve this? somehow some houses have literally no access to food and firewood, while my surplus food and firewood have reached 6k and 1k already. i tried building marketplaces near those problematic housing plots yet somehow they just keep building stalls that end up permanently empty. i also tried building extra granaries there to aid with the resource transport to the point of putting maximum human resource there yet they just decided to open more empty stalls instead.

the logistics in this game is can be pretty abstract and wonky, and not even much explanation could be found on the help section either.

You can destroy the abandoned one. ( that's what I do ).

When you assign new people to your storehouse and granary ( and woodcutter ) or any other facilities, they will re-build a new market stall.

Placing new market place is not the issue.

I have 225 + villager and have 90%-100% approval on fuel and food, and clothes.

Here's some tip;

1- Build all of the following in the middle of everything
A) Storehouse, granary, woodcutter, Saw Pit + Market Place. All need to be in the middle of your entire village.
B) Hunting Camp and Forager Hut needs to be close to your granaries. ( Closer = faster hauling from families assigned to granaries )

2- Depending on the size if your village, you need to assign "enough" or more families to your storehouses. If you have let's say... 50 house and only 1 family assigned to a storehouse, and 1 family to granary, they won't have enough manpower to collect, and transport goods to the market stalls.

For 230 people in my village, I have 2 Large Storehouse and 8 families assigned. I have 2 large granaries and 6 families assigned.

The fact that you have 6k firewoods doesn't matter. What matter is the "speed" at which families transport the firewood from your woodcutter back to the storehouse.. then from the storehouse to the market stalls.

Bear in mind that if you have a lot of houses that produce gears ( artisan ) or hides from goat and food ( vegetable, Apples, eggs ), the storehouse families and granaries families will also have to deal with it... which is why, the amound of families assigned will be subjective to how much you are producing in your village.

So here is your main two major tips.

- Place everything in the middle and all the houses around it.
- Assign more families to storehouse and granaries ( upgrade them to large storehouse if you can ) depending on the size of your village and see the magic happening after.

Note: Do no sell firewood through the trade post. If you do ( like I did ), they will stack all the firewood in there and no one will be able to touch it for your market stall.

Cheers

[laveley]

Originally posted by Hugh Erick Sean:

believe me, ive already tried your solution and i quickly ran into several problems; first, artisans can open stalls and good luck unassigning it. third, even if i unassigned the production families from having market stalls, somehow they will still take the priority of manning the stalls instead of the logistic workers. this is even worse when you stop building marketplace plots, the production families who have not owned a stall will keep terrorizing you to build one.

You can. Unnasign the production workers and assign the storehouse/grannary workers, the later will assume the stall that the first abandoned.

Originally posted by Hugh Erick Sean:

second, youll quickly find yourself with workforce shortage due to how manpower consuming those logistics buildings are. if not due to the fact im abusing veggie + apple's stupid high yields i doubt i could even feed my citizens using the unreliable and also manpower consuming farming method. not to mention that i need to produce stuff and trade too.

Production is extremelly efficient. You will only need one family per production building until way late when you have a 30+ family city, if not later. Unless you have the necessity to see a high stock number on your screen while your citizens go hungry because they cant access them due to the lack of logistic, theres no need whatsoever to assign more workers to production.

Originally posted by Hugh Erick Sean:

at this rate, its more of a game issue rather than skill issue. if i may add some easy solution to at least relieve some of these problems, it would be tweaking the carry capacity of the logistic workers and adding more family capacity because only 6 families for large granary and 4 for large storagehouse is not enough, we should be only building those if we truly need the extra storage or reaching far away places.

If by skill you mean realizing that production is extremelly efficient and logistic extremelly unneficient and you need to throw more resources to logistic and distribution than production to reach a balance, than yes, totally is a skill issue.

But i dont see as that. I only see as the reality. Until the game gets tweaked it is what it is.

I'm helping you here. Instead of deniyng and trying to discuss with me, you could just go and play the game with the tips i gave to you and save you a lot of frustation.

This video show how to get nearly 100% requirements fulfilled, basically doing what i told you to do but with a better insight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzUr1at1xRQ

Good luck

[Burning like KELT-9b]

Originally posted by OΛ ¦ WatchOuTx:

Originally posted by Hugh Erick Sean:

Any ideas how to solve this? somehow some houses have literally no access to food and firewood, while my surplus food and firewood have reached 6k and 1k already. i tried building marketplaces near those problematic housing plots yet somehow they just keep building stalls that end up permanently empty. i also tried building extra granaries there to aid with the resource transport to the point of putting maximum human resource there yet they just decided to open more empty stalls instead.

the logistics in this game is can be pretty abstract and wonky, and not even much explanation could be found on the help section either.

Hello,

I didnt read through all the comments yet, I will just tell you how i kinda solved this problem a few hours ago:
If you start new, dont allow your villagers to store critical Resources like Boots, Leather, Firewood or Ale in your Storehouse/Granery. If you do this they will bring it to their market stalls and fill those up instead of delivering everything to the storehouses/granerys
If you already are in an existing game and dont want to start new again, have a look at your market stalls. Find one that is filled up and move it to a different market location that is closer to the houses that need materials or food.
Also give it some time, they do need to get used to new restrictions or replacements, dont expect everything to be solved in a few seconds, after 1 or 2 months everything went well in my large town after distributing the market stalls and restricting items that i dont want to have inside my store houses.
I am currently experimenting with "1-Lined" Market-Stalls and placing houses to the left and to the right, probably that will help to supply the houses better until this problem is fixed.
Hope i could help, have fun!

thank you for the help, from reading this i can definitely try limiting the types of inventory it can receive. it might help with far away storages and granaries from fetching things that it doesnt need to such as materials from/for production buildlings. again, thank you for popping up the idea

[therats]

It appears that the total amount of each type of commodity in the entire market place never exceeds the total number of housing plots that it serves. More supplies are only sent out from the store/granary when one is taken from the stalls. This immediately marks one of the plots as lacking that commodity until the stalls are resupplied. Because there is no margin for storing quantities above the number of plots the system is bound to oscillate. I currently only have 10 plots and I find this very irritating.

[Blaiyze]

Your problem is that you have too many market stalls.

You only need 3 market stalls, with eventual need for another food stall as your city goes beyond 12 burgage lots, assuming a town that produces 4 types of food.
Supply and coverage that you're seeing in the tooltip of the marketplace is about matching the stored items to the number of burgage lots you have.

For example:
You have a town with 10 burgage lots. Not number of houses (I recommend always being able to build two houses per lot regardless), the individual lots. 10 lots = 20 houses if you're doubling up.
Anyways.

You have 10 lots, that means your clothing vendor needs 10x each item, your fuel vendor needs 10x each item, your food vendor needs 10x each TYPE of food - let's say your town produces four kinds of foods. So your food stall should have 40 items stored.

That's the max coverage/capacity needed. Build your market places smaller, pay attention to the star indicator when you're dropping down a market area and only allow for 3 stalls to be built.

Contrary to mistaken belief, your homes do NOT need to be close to the market. They can be across the area map and still be supplied if your stalls are fully stocked.
What DO need to be close together: your storage buildings must be close to your market and crafting buildings.
Beyond that, it's logistics - having enough workers to haul everything, that's why the storage buildings have such a large worker count.

Beyond that, make sure it's your granary and storehouse workers that own stalls. Anyone else running them, especially your productive workforce, is going to cripple your economy's production. Do NOT let any other workers other than your granary or storehouse workers operate stalls.
A peddler must always be present at the stall for the populace to 'see' it as being 'open', because yes, they physically have to walk to the stall to shop their items, but they only do this ONCE A MONTH.

This mechanic needs far better explanation in-game. I've spent literally the last several days testing this extensively and the assumptions we as players are making based on the bit of information in game is completely wrong.

[KrayZee]

Originally posted by therats:

It appears that the total amount of each type of commodity in the entire market place never exceeds the total number of housing plots that it serves. More supplies are only sent out from the store/granary when one is taken from the stalls. This immediately marks one of the plots as lacking that commodity until the stalls are resupplied. Because there is no margin for storing quantities above the number of plots the system is bound to oscillate. I currently only have 10 plots and I find this very irritating.

Technically you can waste ressources and build 20 empty plots. (insert crazy smiley "here")

[Burning like KELT-9b]

Originally posted by Cmdr D.:

Originally posted by Hugh Erick Sean:

Any ideas how to solve this? somehow some houses have literally no access to food and firewood, while my surplus food and firewood have reached 6k and 1k already. i tried building marketplaces near those problematic housing plots yet somehow they just keep building stalls that end up permanently empty. i also tried building extra granaries there to aid with the resource transport to the point of putting maximum human resource there yet they just decided to open more empty stalls instead.

the logistics in this game is can be pretty abstract and wonky, and not even much explanation could be found on the help section either.

You can destroy the abandoned one. ( that's what I do ).

When you assign new people to your storehouse and granary ( and woodcutter ) or any other facilities, they will re-build a new market stall.

Placing new market place is not the issue.

I have 225 + villager and have 90%-100% approval on fuel and food, and clothes.

Here's some tip;

1- Build all of the following in the middle of everything
A) Storehouse, granary, woodcutter, Saw Pit + Market Place. All need to be in the middle of your entire village.
B) Hunting Camp and Forager Hut needs to be close to your granaries. ( Closer = faster hauling from families assigned to granaries )

2- Depending on the size if your village, you need to assign "enough" or more families to your storehouses. If you have let's say... 50 house and only 1 family assigned to a storehouse, and 1 family to granary, they won't have enough manpower to collect, and transport goods to the market stalls.

For 230 people in my village, I have 2 Large Storehouse and 8 families assigned. I have 2 large granaries and 6 families assigned.

The fact that you have 6k firewoods doesn't matter. What matter is the "speed" at which families transport the firewood from your woodcutter back to the storehouse.. then from the storehouse to the market stalls.

Bear in mind that if you have a lot of houses that produce gears ( artisan ) or hides from goat and food ( vegetable, Apples, eggs ), the storehouse families and granaries families will also have to deal with it... which is why, the amound of families assigned will be subjective to how much you are producing in your village.

So here is your main two major tips.

- Place everything in the middle and all the houses around it.
- Assign more families to storehouse and granaries ( upgrade them to large storehouse if you can ) depending on the size of your village and see the magic happening after.

Note: Do no sell firewood through the trade post. If you do ( like I did ), they will stack all the firewood in there and no one will be able to touch it for your market stall.

Cheers

Originally posted by Cmdr D.:

Originally posted by Hugh Erick Sean:

Any ideas how to solve this? somehow some houses have literally no access to food and firewood, while my surplus food and firewood have reached 6k and 1k already. i tried building marketplaces near those problematic housing plots yet somehow they just keep building stalls that end up permanently empty. i also tried building extra granaries there to aid with the resource transport to the point of putting maximum human resource there yet they just decided to open more empty stalls instead.

the logistics in this game is can be pretty abstract and wonky, and not even much explanation could be found on the help section either.

You can destroy the abandoned one. ( that's what I do ).

When you assign new people to your storehouse and granary ( and woodcutter ) or any other facilities, they will re-build a new market stall.

Placing new market place is not the issue.

I have 225 + villager and have 90%-100% approval on fuel and food, and clothes.

Here's some tip;

1- Build all of the following in the middle of everything
A) Storehouse, granary, woodcutter, Saw Pit + Market Place. All need to be in the middle of your entire village.
B) Hunting Camp and Forager Hut needs to be close to your granaries. ( Closer = faster hauling from families assigned to granaries )

2- Depending on the size if your village, you need to assign "enough" or more families to your storehouses. If you have let's say... 50 house and only 1 family assigned to a storehouse, and 1 family to granary, they won't have enough manpower to collect, and transport goods to the market stalls.

For 230 people in my village, I have 2 Large Storehouse and 8 families assigned. I have 2 large granaries and 6 families assigned.

The fact that you have 6k firewoods doesn't matter. What matter is the "speed" at which families transport the firewood from your woodcutter back to the storehouse.. then from the storehouse to the market stalls.

Bear in mind that if you have a lot of houses that produce gears ( artisan ) or hides from goat and food ( vegetable, Apples, eggs ), the storehouse families and granaries families will also have to deal with it... which is why, the amound of families assigned will be subjective to how much you are producing in your village.

So here is your main two major tips.

- Place everything in the middle and all the houses around it.
- Assign more families to storehouse and granaries ( upgrade them to large storehouse if you can ) depending on the size of your village and see the magic happening after.

Note: Do no sell firewood through the trade post. If you do ( like I did ), they will stack all the firewood in there and no one will be able to touch it for your market stall.

Cheers

thanks for the help. most of the production buildings i had are next door to storages (except logging camp and woodcutters camp for obvious reasons). i already tried building up to 11 granaries and 7 storage houses spread out with marketplaces next door to support 200 families but i might need to make more centralized supply chain after seeing you could manage with more efficient manpower. however, im still quite confused though about the marketplace influence area. ive tried making spread out marketplace to reach farther housing plots and the result is that multiple empty market stalls in one place and unused plots in the other, even though the housing plots that required the supply is next door to the empty plots.

[Burning like KELT-9b]

Originally posted by Blaiyze:

Your problem is that you have too many market stalls.

You only need 3 market stalls, with eventual need for another food stall as your city goes beyond 12 burgage lots, assuming a town that produces 4 types of food.
Supply and coverage that you're seeing in the tooltip of the marketplace is about matching the stored items to the number of burgage lots you have.

For example:
You have a town with 10 burgage lots. Not number of houses (I recommend always being able to build two houses per lot regardless), the individual lots. 10 lots = 20 houses if you're doubling up.
Anyways.

You have 10 lots, that means your clothing vendor needs 10x each item, your fuel vendor needs 10x each item, your food vendor needs 10x each TYPE of food - let's say your town produces four kinds of foods. So your food stall should have 40 items stored.

That's the max coverage/capacity needed. Build your market places smaller, pay attention to the star indicator when you're dropping down a market area and only allow for 3 stalls to be built.

Contrary to mistaken belief, your homes do NOT need to be close to the market. They can be across the area map and still be supplied if your stalls are fully stocked.
What DO need to be close together: your storage buildings must be close to your market and crafting buildings.
Beyond that, it's logistics - having enough workers to haul everything, that's why the storage buildings have such a large worker count.

Beyond that, make sure it's your granary and storehouse workers that own stalls. Anyone else running them, especially your productive workforce, is going to cripple your economy's production. Do NOT let any other workers other than your granary or storehouse workers operate stalls.
A peddler must always be present at the stall for the populace to 'see' it as being 'open', because yes, they physically have to walk to the stall to shop their items, but they only do this ONCE A MONTH.

This mechanic needs far better explanation in-game. I've spent literally the last several days testing this extensively and the assumptions we as players are making based on the bit of information in game is completely wrong.

true, i did make a lot of marketplace stalls spread out, thinking that houses that are farther away wouldnt get the accessibility if its too centralized. now i know that it wouldnt affect much anyway since the goods from marketplace are teleported into their homes anyway. ive tried experimenting with building housing plots far away at the map border and its funny they still have access to firewood because the stalls still have the stock.

thank you for the exact numbers, that is what im really looking for. i do really wish this was explained in the game because this can be pretty counter intuitive. and also, seems that if you do not build enough marketplace plots the game think it is they will keep urging you to build one despite it will turn out empty anyway, which is so annoying. its one of the main reasons why i ended up building more market plots than needed.

[Burning like KELT-9b]

Originally posted by therats:

It appears that the total amount of each type of commodity in the entire market place never exceeds the total number of housing plots that it serves. More supplies are only sent out from the store/granary when one is taken from the stalls. This immediately marks one of the plots as lacking that commodity until the stalls are resupplied. Because there is no margin for storing quantities above the number of plots the system is bound to oscillate. I currently only have 10 plots and I find this very irritating.

this might explain why one of my oldest housing plots still do not have access to food despite it being next door to the largest marketplace i've built. seems that the game assigns each housing plots to a stall statically. if that one stall is perpetually empty, so does the housing plot it is assigned to.