Retainers are insanely weak?

[tacc13]

Even with full plate armour they drop like flies when fighting bandits, its honestly not worth using them when the peasant militias are better and die less. Anyone else having this issue?

[EarlSkrubb]

yeah, but you can have more retainers than militia, militia hard cap at like 5-6 units I think, and weirdly retainer also count towards that cap, so you could have 5 militia and still get retainer units by building new manor in new regions, but if you have like, 4 militia and 2 retainer for a total of 6 unit, you can't recruit any more militia. probably a bug.

[Ruin]

Originally posted by tacc13:

Even with full plate armour they drop like flies when fighting bandits, its honestly not worth using them when the peasant militias are better and die less. Anyone else having this issue?

The biggest weakness with them is that they rally with less than 50 effectiveness, which means they are fighting a greatly reduced strength...

It's best to rally them early, let them gain effectiveness, make sure you fight in your own provinces, and be sure to use combat "stances" (hold, push forward, etc) at appropriate times...

I've had my retinue hold against units more than twice their size, and only losing a few of them in combat, by having high effectiveness, taking advantage of terrain and hold to blunt the enemy charge, and then using the push forward command...

[Private Pyle]

nah they strong af.

[Ruin]

Originally posted by mariusz.sabadasz:

Originally posted by Guszko:

You can actually improve them, but it is very costly.

You can't do it now because tax system is not working so you can't tax your peons

Yes, you can... Not all tax options are available, but if you click on your Manor, and click on the Tax panel, you can set a general tax which generates personal wealth that can be used to hire more retinue, or give them better equipment...

[RaelM]

Originally posted by tacc13:

Even with full plate armour they drop like flies when fighting bandits, its honestly not worth using them when the peasant militias are better and die less. Anyone else having this issue?

I've not had this issue. I use retainers as my front line and they do their job better than levies, the only issue is due to the fact they wear plate armour, low stamina. I find they tire out easier so you need to give them a rest before the fight as most of the time they are knackered from just the walk over.

If you let them fight when they are fatigued then yes they won't fare well at all but if you let them rest up those plate wearing maniacs will annihilate the bandits with ease, even before increasing their unit size with the garrison attachment for the manor.

[RaelM]

Originally posted by mariusz.sabadasz:

Originally posted by Guszko:

You can actually improve them, but it is very costly.

You can't do it now because tax system is not working so you can't tax your peons

You can tax your peasants like Ruin said or you can use your initial retainers with basic gear and your first stack of 20 spearmen to go bandit camp hunting. Choose to take the money yourself and use it to upgrade your retainers and get more of them.

[RaelM]

Originally posted by Ruin:

Originally posted by tacc13:

Even with full plate armour they drop like flies when fighting bandits, its honestly not worth using them when the peasant militias are better and die less. Anyone else having this issue?

The biggest weakness with them is that they rally with less than 50 effectiveness, which means they are fighting a greatly reduced strength...

It's best to rally them early, let them gain effectiveness, make sure you fight in your own provinces, and be sure to use combat "stances" (hold, push forward, etc) at appropriate times...

I've had my retinue hold against units more than twice their size, and only losing a few of them in combat, by having high effectiveness, taking advantage of terrain and hold to blunt the enemy charge, and then using the push forward command...

This!!!

You need to let them rest to gain effectiveness, then they are much better than levies.

[maverick2986]

Originally posted by mariusz.sabadasz:

Originally posted by Guszko:

You can actually improve them, but it is very costly.

You can't do it now because tax system is not working so you can't tax your peons

Click on your manor, then click on tax - fairly steep tradeoff though (10% tax for -6 happiness) and its only worth it if you already have good regional wealth through trading and higher level burgages.

For me, its way easier to just use my starting retinue and maybe 18 militia to start bandit hunting. If you can kill bandits and then take their camp you typically get around 180-200s which you can keep or give to your closest region. I always keep it for my personal wealth then just steamroll that into merc hiring or improving my retinue and then hunt more bandits to keep a merc unit on payroll and have them basically pay for themselves

[maverick2986]

Originally posted by RaelM:

Originally posted by Ruin:

The biggest weakness with them is that they rally with less than 50 effectiveness, which means they are fighting a greatly reduced strength...

It's best to rally them early, let them gain effectiveness, make sure you fight in your own provinces, and be sure to use combat "stances" (hold, push forward, etc) at appropriate times...

I've had my retinue hold against units more than twice their size, and only losing a few of them in combat, by having high effectiveness, taking advantage of terrain and hold to blunt the enemy charge, and then using the push forward command...

This!!!

You need to let them rest to gain effectiveness, then they are much better than levies.

I've had my retinue deploy at full strength before. It seems both the retinue and your militia's stamina are tied to when they last deployed. I've tested this out by intentionally deploying immediately after disbanding and then also waiting for periods of time and it does seem to be linked to how long you deploy since your last disbanding. This also affects your militia, though they seem to recover more quickly (require less time in between to get back to full stamina). Also, I never run my troops to the battle region - they always walk then I rest them once I see the enemy on the move if they weren't at full stamina and wait for the enemy to come to me. When the enemy is close I do rush my troops at them - not sure if it does anything but feels like I would get more of an initial advantage. Also, never fight in the woods and try fight with your troops uphill of the enemy - this along with your stamina and cohesion all factor into total effectiveness