Meat production through sheep

[Nikinta_Nightmare]

So over my time of play (yes I know it's still early and I'm sure there's things in the works) but here's somethin simple that could resolve the issue when it comes to Meat. Early day's you can produce enough meat for the first year or two maybe from hunting but late game hunting produces hardly any meat or at least any noticeable ammount.

So one way this could be resolved I feel rather easily would be ... Sheep. Since the sheep can go WAY out of hand when you have the Sheep Breeding perk and the market can in NO WAY keep up with sheep breeding when you have large numbers. Why not make it an option for either the sheep farm or maybe a new building, Butchery, to take extra animals or when a population reaches a point goes and harvests the sheep for meat?

I don't think it'd be to hard to set that up. Have a fenced area or just automatic where when a population goes beyond the spaces free for sheep they get salughtered. Or at the sheep farm be like trade post where you set an amount that you want to keep in stock and they sell anything that's past that point but in this case it's butcher any sheep past that set population.

[Horemvore]

Butcher is disabled atm.

[9erRed]

Greetings,

There should be another form of Meat coming as soon as the Dev. gets water elements working.
- Fish and the other items that are associated with water, both rivers and lake. (ells were a common higher end food for the Lords) But fish, if available were common.

- We are not seeing those chickens used for food either.

Sheep were a costly animal to purchase and provided much needed fertilizer for fields and gardens. Collected through the year for application when needed. There wool outweighed the need to slaughter them.
- That's another occupation not in the game yet. Dung collector, as it was also used for building houses. Mixed with straw and earth and used to fill the wall lattice of houses.

off topic but
See here:
Wattle and daub is a composite building method used for making walls and buildings, in which a woven lattice of wooden strips called "wattle" is "daubed" with a sticky material usually made of some combination of wet soil, clay, sand, animal dung and straw.

[Shahadem]

We also don't have dairy.

Sheep provided wool, meat and dairy.

Yes, some sheep were raised for their meat. Other sheep would be slaughtered because they were sick or injured or died or old. There might have been more lambs some years than could be supported or sold. Those were destined for being butchered.

There is an old adage which goes something like, "If you have lifestock then you also have deadstock." A little morbid but that's the sad reality of raising livestock.

There are no cows.

No pigs.

No peacocks.

No ducks or geese.

But I don't really expect the game to take into account every single aspect or be 100% historically accurate in every way.

[Lyleen]

I wonder, why the goats and chickens don't give meat. The goats are slaughtered für their hide, what happens to the rest ?_?

[PocketAces]

Chickens were more valuable for their eggs.
Goats for milk.
Sheep for wool.
They weren't primary meat sources, however males (Goats/ Spatchcock, male sterilized chickens) would have been slaughtered for their meat, so goats should give a (low) passive for meat/ leather.
Chicken for meat didn't become popular until after WW2, there was a TV series around this, Hidden household killers, I think it was called.
I did hear on this forum that the dev wasn't going to include milk production for goats as it gave too much food. I think the demo included it.

[Pico 22]

So what's wrong with too much food?

[SinisterSlay]

As it is sheep eventually overrun everything reproducing and the market gets saturated and you end up with a situation where you have 1000s of them running around out of pens refusing to just run away. Then every harvest the game freezes as it instantly harvests 1000s of sheep worth of wool, that you also can't dump.
Need to eat these things.

[Targaryen22]

Originally posted by Pico 22:

So what's wrong with too much food?

same thing wrong with 1.4k warbows (my main region produces more warbows with one fletchers shop then i can sell to the market) its a constant strain on resource storage lol. My main village has like 3 upgraded storehouses and 1 is full, 1 is almost and the third is about halfish. too much of a good thing is a bad thing

[PocketAces]

Originally posted by Pico 22:

So what's wrong with too much food?

Makes the game too easy? Would be nice to have the option to slaughter your sheep.

"My Lord, we are starving!"
"Yes, well don't eat the sheep, they are too valuable!"

[bennydigitall]

Me say moar meat!!

[Chilled Sloth]

Originally posted by PocketAces:

Chickens were more valuable for their eggs.
Goats for milk.
Sheep for wool.
They weren't primary meat sources, however males (Goats/ Spatchcock, male sterilized chickens) would have been slaughtered for their meat, so goats should give a (low) passive for meat/ leather.
Chicken for meat didn't become popular until after WW2, there was a TV series around this, Hidden household killers, I think it was called.

Chicken, and not just capons, and sheep were absolutely raised for their meat too. The egg production per hen was far lower than today anyhow. What was raised for meat consumption varied greatly on the region and time. Barcelona in the 15th century slaughtered over 40k sheep each year (for about 40k inhabitants), mutton forming 70% of all meat consumed. In France or Germany, beef made up the majority. Some towns with cattle markets in Germany saw the arrival of tens of thousands each year from Poland and Ukraine on their way to be sold in Western Europe!

In general, chicken consumption went down after the Black Death of the 14th century, as most people could afford red meat instead. It wasn't until the late 16th/early 17th century that common people didn't get meat every day anymore and bread started to make up the bulk again. There's records of simple journeymen in Germany complaining about getting meat only every three days now - in the early 17th century.

[PocketAces]

Originally posted by μ 'n' I:

Chicken, and not just capons, and sheep were absolutely raised for their meat too. The egg production per hen was far lower than today anyhow. What was raised for meat consumption varied greatly on the region and time. Barcelona in the 15th century slaughtered over 40k sheep each year (for about 40k inhabitants), mutton forming 70% of all meat consumed. In France or Germany, beef made up the majority. Some towns with cattle markets in Germany saw the arrival of tens of thousands each year from Poland and Ukraine on their way to be sold in Western Europe!

In general, chicken consumption went down after the Black Death of the 14th century, as most people could afford red meat instead. It wasn't until the late 16th/early 17th century that common people didn't get meat every day anymore and bread started to make up the bulk again. There's records of simple journeymen in Germany complaining about getting meat only every three days now - in the early 17th century.

Don't disagree, however the time line for Manor Lords is between the X!-XV century Europe.

[dieseldodi]

Sheep for meat and cheese is a must actually. They cost 25 a head and their wool really isn't worth that price tall all: you just get them and take the hit to wallet grudgingly just to upgrade your town level.
That's not a good game mechanic, that's just frustrating.

BTW sows (female sheep) were kept but all the rams have no use other than meat and hide. You only need one ram or one bull for an entire farm of cows or sows to reproduce, all other male animals serve no purpose but food.

So let's sat every 2 sheep give one meat (the ram for meet and the sow is kept for wool and cheese), compared to 1 for 1 for the deer.
Also, farm animals raised for food should reproduce on their own, just like wild animals (in fact animals in the care of humans have so much better chances of mating and successful pregnancies, so they should reproduce more actually, but let's keep the same rate).

Same goes for cows. Except they are two to three times the size of deer or sheep so they definitely should give more meat, cheese and hide per head.

Medieval European diet depended much more on meat than the modern day, because farming wasn't as advanced and you were generally better off with an animal that just needs a fence and an occasional roof and the ever-green European ground is its food, than with medieval farming unless you had what it took, and it took a lot.

Oh and the goats should also give meat and cheese.
So do the chicken dens: meat and eggs.

Actually for the goat farms, it would be better to just replace them with sheep farms, so you have a built-in ability to get sheep instead of goats that -for consumption purposes, are basically nothing but sheep that don't give wool.

I think it would work

Deer (wild) : 1 meat + 1 hide per head - costs nothing - depends on regions deposits

Chicken (burgage) : 0.1 meat + 0.5 eggs per bird - costs upgrade - depends on burgage size

Sheep (burgage) : 0.5 meat + 1 wool + 0.5 cheese + 0.5 hide per head - costs upgrade - depends on burgage size

Sheep (farm) : 0.5 meat + 1 wool + 0.5 cheese + 0.5 hide per head - bought in animal trader - depends on animal trade and tech three

Cattle (farm) : 3 meat + 2 hide + 3 cheese per head - bought in animal trader - depends on animal trade and tech three

Pigs (burgage) : 1 meat + 1 hide per head - costs upgrade - depends on burgage size

And to keep the economy balance, you always start off with a pair and the burgage is at 50% meat productivity until they multiply enough to fill the burgage area's capacity.
So it you build one with a very large capacity, it's more a long term investment; smaller ones are for fast returns.

I think it'd be balanced too:

Sheep this way are half as productive as animals of similar size, but they give an extra type of clothing materials in return.

Chicken don't give any clothing materials, but give two types of food

Pigs only give meat and hide like deer, but you control how many you have of them for a price

Cows give more of everything, but Ardmore expensive and require more pasture space, so you depends on Cattle only at high level settlement or dedicated farming settlements

[Chilled Sloth]

Originally posted by PocketAces:

Don't disagree, however the time line for Manor Lords is between the X!-XV century Europe.

I see, I thought I read that it was XIV. century Franconia. Seemed like right after the plague had depopulated an area would make sense for resettlement (and then some forest clearance).
X!.-XV. century would span a lot of changes in food consumption.

[Gosg]

Originally posted by dieseldodi:

Sheep for meat and cheese is a must actually. They cost 25 a head and their wool really isn't worth that price tall all: you just get them and take the hit to wallet grudgingly just to upgrade your town level.
That's not a good game mechanic, that's just frustrating.

BTW sows (female sheep) were kept but all the rams have no use other than meat and hide. You only need one ram or one bull for an entire farm of cows or sows to reproduce, all other male animals serve no purpose but food.

So let's sat every 2 sheep give one meat (the ram for meet and the sow is kept for wool and cheese), compared to 1 for 1 for the deer.
Also, farm animals raised for food should reproduce on their own, just like wild animals (in fact animals in the care of humans have so much better chances of mating and successful pregnancies, so they should reproduce more actually, but let's keep the same rate).

Same goes for cows. Except they are two to three times the size of deer or sheep so they definitely should give more meat, cheese and hide per head.

Medieval European diet depended much more on meat than the modern day, because farming wasn't as advanced and you were generally better off with an animal that just needs a fence and an occasional roof and the ever-green European ground is its food, than with medieval farming unless you had what it took, and it took a lot.

Oh and the goats should also give meat and cheese.
So do the chicken dens: meat and eggs.

Actually for the goat farms, it would be better to just replace them with sheep farms, so you have a built-in ability to get sheep instead of goats that -for consumption purposes, are basically nothing but sheep that don't give wool.

I think it would work

Deer (wild) : 1 meat + 1 hide per head - costs nothing - depends on regions deposits

Chicken (burgage) : 0.1 meat + 0.5 eggs per bird - costs upgrade - depends on burgage size

Sheep (burgage) : 0.5 meat + 1 wool + 0.5 cheese + 0.5 hide per head - costs upgrade - depends on burgage size

Sheep (farm) : 0.5 meat + 1 wool + 0.5 cheese + 0.5 hide per head - bought in animal trader - depends on animal trade and tech three

Cattle (farm) : 3 meat + 2 hide + 3 cheese per head - bought in animal trader - depends on animal trade and tech three

Pigs (burgage) : 1 meat + 1 hide per head - costs upgrade - depends on burgage size

And to keep the economy balance, you always start off with a pair and the burgage is at 50% meat productivity until they multiply enough to fill the burgage area's capacity.
So it you build one with a very large capacity, it's more a long term investment; smaller ones are for fast returns.

I think it'd be balanced too:

Sheep this way are half as productive as animals of similar size, but they give an extra type of clothing materials in return.

Chicken don't give any clothing materials, but give two types of food

Pigs only give meat and hide like deer, but you control how many you have of them for a price

Cows give more of everything, but Ardmore expensive and require more pasture space, so you depends on Cattle only at high level settlement or dedicated farming settlements

+1