Current thunder hammer state

[Eagle_I_am | .tv/eagle_i_am]

In case of recent thunder hammer nerf of monstrocity damage, i want to whine again about iconic and favorite weapon.
It feels awful. You literally dead meat vs every berserker pack.
And bersrekers spawn in 20+ bodies in every room nowdays.
Crucis has awful non-charged damage to maniacs. Though you can kill some elites with charged, it's extra slow process, to bonk every one with heavy charged. And yes, trahs stagger for this looking weapon. Yeah, you can have 10 seconds of happiness when 3-shot monster or dh. But everything else meh. Come on, it even cant cleave horde enough to survive against.

Ironhelm. Evern lower stagger. Trash level mosnter damage after nerf. Cant oneshot crusher without ultimate. Cant oneshot crusher on havok at all.

What nische supposed TH to have right now? Picture on loading screen?

[Burba]

I had no idea the hammer had been nerfed that hard. I will not bother leveling it then. Thanks for the heads up.

[CopperBack]

When was the monster damage nerf? I found it decent against hordes if you get blessing to ignore 60% hit mass on kill. Still does impressive monster damage.

I do miss the V2 version where light attacks did better AP. Could use a revamp to power system like new relic sword... it is the War Hammer of Warhammer.

[Carlmine]

No matter what they do with thunder hammers, they're always going to feel like ♥♥♥♥ in a game that has gradually evolved into a super fast and mobile weapons meta that, on top of also being good against everything. At this point, they should turn thunder hammers into an ability like the Grail Knight one or they can just copy the activation mechanics of the relic blade to see if they get better, but i think they are still gonna feel subpar no matter what.

[watch out theres RATS]

They're definitely still in a rough spot. For trash clear and CC, they're competing with the Relic Blade (far better crowd damage, slightly faster attack rate) and the Crusher (best CC of any melee weapon Zealot can use). For single target damage, they're outclassed by Dueling Sword, Combat Knife, Chain Axe, Combat Axe, maybe others. For mobility, they're inferior to every other melee weapon in the game.

I haven't checked the patch notes for how they buffed the hammer, but at this point I'm thinking that the TH just needs a full rework to actually feel powerful. Obviously a good player can take it into a match and make it work, but I don't think there's any circumstance in which the TH is better than another weapon at any useful component of melee combat.

It's still the worst melee weapon in the game, in my opinion.

[RoseMonde]

just get good no ? i can use it perfectly fine

[CopperBack]

Originally posted by watch out theres RATS:

They're definitely still in a rough spot. For trash clear and CC, they're competing with the Relic Blade (far better crowd damage, slightly faster attack rate) and the Crusher (best CC of any melee weapon Zealot can use). For single target damage, they're outclassed by Dueling Sword, Combat Knife, Chain Axe, Combat Axe, maybe others. For mobility, they're inferior to every other melee weapon in the game.

I haven't checked the patch notes for how they buffed the hammer, but at this point I'm thinking that the TH just needs a full rework to actually feel powerful. Obviously a good player can take it into a match and make it work, but I don't think there's any circumstance in which the TH is better than another weapon at any useful component of melee combat.

It's still the worst melee weapon in the game, in my opinion.

ugh... I'd love it over Ogryn mace or power mace... there terrible.

[Eagle_I_am | .tv/eagle_i_am]

Originally posted by RoseMonde:

just get good no ? i can use it perfectly fine

can use and be viable against other options are big difference.
I can use it also. I even can use it on 40 havok and complete mission. But on regular damnation it's like phun weapon. On havok it burdens team to cover you in some circumstances more than advantage it gives.

Yeah, rework probably.
Thinder hammer for being slowest and hardest to master weapon must be very impressive in performance. Like Flamer or bolter.
Like Vermintide quality of stagger and non-charged damage and on top activating oneshots.
I agree to suffer release days self-stagger for that, but only give real powerfor this action, please.
Like TH and crusher must shift in one weapon with both effects in same time.

[Eagle_I_am | .tv/eagle_i_am]

Originally posted by CopperBack:

Originally posted by watch out theres RATS:

They're definitely still in a rough spot. For trash clear and CC, they're competing with the Relic Blade (far better crowd damage, slightly faster attack rate) and the Crusher (best CC of any melee weapon Zealot can use). For single target damage, they're outclassed by Dueling Sword, Combat Knife, Chain Axe, Combat Axe, maybe others. For mobility, they're inferior to every other melee weapon in the game.

I haven't checked the patch notes for how they buffed the hammer, but at this point I'm thinking that the TH just needs a full rework to actually feel powerful. Obviously a good player can take it into a match and make it work, but I don't think there's any circumstance in which the TH is better than another weapon at any useful component of melee combat.

It's still the worst melee weapon in the game, in my opinion.

ugh... I'd love it over Ogryn mace or power mace... there terrible.

worst happened, ogryn power maul is nerfed also some time ago. CHecked it recently, it now make only single target meh stagger on activated instead of making 10m area of peace and green trees

[VroomVroomVroom]

Right now it is, as you said, a monstrosity killer. Probably for Maelstroms with "waves of specials"/"Every special is a monstrosity" kinda missions.

Other than that... I mean, it's somewhat usable for hordes of common enemies. But that that's about it.

[Eagle_I_am | .tv/eagle_i_am]

Originally posted by CopperBack:

When was the monster damage nerf? I found it decent against hordes if you get blessing to ignore 60% hit mass on kill. Still does impressive monster damage.

I do miss the V2 version where light attacks did better AP. Could use a revamp to power system like new relic sword... it is the War Hammer of Warhammer.

This patch.
Blessing is nice, but you have only 2 of them. And you have hard choice - 'some' stagger with hammerblow (not enough to reliant stun berserkers even), some damage with slaughterer/headtaker, nice charged damage with thrust or cleave as you suggested. On base hammer have no either damage, not cleave and stagger at all.
Impressive monster damage is probably lower that veteran can do perfectly safe and no efforts with kraks, or anyone with bolter. Or anyone with recon lasgun. Compared level to anyone can do with dueling sword also

[xDaunt]

The crucis is perfectly viable and even good through auric/maelstrom. However, it is completely useless on high level havocs because you can’t hit any of the important breakpoints for the targets that hammer is supposed to eliminate. The net result is that a thunderhammer user will be badly overwhelmed on havoc missions. I think that the thunderhammer is the poster child for how screwed up weapon balance is right now.

[TravoltinoSK]

Its objective ♥♥♥♥, no matter how well you can use it - make it work - win & carry games.
The truth of the fact is that in a game with knife and dueling sword AND talents/blessings that apply to them.
Thunder hammer might as well be a toy

[Qau'lthir]

Originally posted by Burba:

I had no idea the hammer had been nerfed that hard. I will not bother leveling it then. Thanks for the heads up.

It hasn't, that's the funny part.

[Probably Alpharius]

Originally posted by Carlmine:

No matter what they do with thunder hammers, they're always going to feel like ♥♥♥♥ in a game that has gradually evolved into a super fast and mobile weapons meta that, on top of also being good against everything. At this point, they should turn thunder hammers into an ability like the Grail Knight one or they can just copy the activation mechanics of the relic blade to see if they get better, but i think they are still gonna feel subpar no matter what.

If a weapon has no good fast options then it's clearly not well designed for the direction the game has evolved into. This game is fast, so your weapons need to also be fast.

[Eagle_I_am | .tv/eagle_i_am]

Originally posted by Qau'lthir:

Originally posted by Burba:

I had no idea the hammer had been nerfed that hard. I will not bother leveling it then. Thanks for the heads up.

It hasn't, that's the funny part.

Crucis was buffed even, in some way that bring him in usable state. (was ugly trash before) But buffed not in important way. And trade some carapace damage vs huge unyealding not worth that.
While Ironhelm was nerfed only.