Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory

Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory

Joker (已封鎖) 2020 年 9 月 22 日 上午 11:54
3
Most overrated stealth game?
Why is this game so overrated? What is good about it? AI is horrible, level design is linear and for the entire game you do the same thing: turn off lights with pistol, knock or bypass guards with the same animations, forever and ever. This game maybe was good in 2005 but it aged so horribly that now even Blacklist can be considered a pinnacle of this series.

MGS3 is a far better stealth game.
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目前顯示第 106-120 則留言,共 177
ZeFyr 2021 年 2 月 16 日 下午 3:27 
Splinter Cell Chaos Theory is the Rainbow Six 3 of the third person stealth/action game genre at the time. It's got the meticulous detailed mechanics like peeking through doors before entering, bashing, breaching, creeping, sneaking, rappelling and all that jazz. I still think the old games are good if you wanna really slow your pace. Only game that lets you go slower and 'stealthier' is MGS4 with Old Snake's solid ground hump for a crawl.
最後修改者:ZeFyr; 2021 年 2 月 16 日 下午 3:27
ZeFyr 2021 年 2 月 16 日 下午 4:13 
In fact you'd have a better time comparing Metal Gear Solid 3 to James Bond 007 Everything or Nothing than you will have trying to compare MGS3 to Chaos Theory, they are not the same kind of game even IF Kojimbo was part of starting the stealth game trend.

Splinter Cell has more in common with Thief
While Metal Gear Solid is a stealth action hybrid type of game.


There's action in Splinter Cell, but if you go that route you are doing it 'wrong'.
UmbralPenumbra 2021 年 2 月 16 日 下午 5:49 
引用自 Moog
In fact you'd have a better time comparing Metal Gear Solid 3 to James Bond 007
This is a much better comparison I think. The protagonists of the MGS series and the games in general are a much more romanticized depiction of espionage that is reminiscent of the British romantic depiction of James Bond. Sam Fisher and Splinter Cell are a more blunt and callus depiction of US meddling in overseas affairs

I would liken MGS to an action movie, and Splinter Cell to a documentary as far as their difference in tone
Hex: Gon’ Give It To Ya 2021 年 2 月 20 日 上午 10:08 
Hopefully I got baited.
In what way MGS3 is better? Even less animations OF ANYTHING. At least in SC, especially Chaos Theory and Double Agent Fisher's knockout animations actually look like legit knockout (realistically speaking even on Veeeery thin edge from being lethal) instead of Snake's slamming against ground (doesn't matter grass, swamp, or concrete, yeah right) ONE animation. Very rigid gameplay in general (stiff running, you can run or crawling but Not crouching, unless you are against wall), so much so Hideo himself even "recommended" to newbies to straight up skip first games and start with new ones. In Chaos Theory you have like 4 or 6 speeds on-foot, in MGS 3 just two.
Even Less variations of beating maps. Yes, they are some More creative MOMENTS like how much way you have to get out from jail, but that's simply it, Moments.

Not to mention most recent MGS (V, i.e. GZ and TPP) is nothing but a more modern rehash of Chaos Theory ideas, from ditching off stupid unpractical (unless he just straight up slashes and shoots people like in Modern Warfare 2) CQC stand with pistol (or even rifle, hello MGS4) in one hand and knife in another. Finally can Snake crouch (i don't count MGS 3D or PW for being portable console games). Realistic gun placements, no more picking rifles/machineguns out of nowhere.Finally Snake can hide in the darkness, even night vision goggles finally became actually usefull for more than one scripted sequence.
Yet Still it is very simplified ripoff compared to Chaos Theory's gameplay.

And all in all in the end CT looks like realistic legit tactical operation, MGS3 looks like clownery with some poignant and adult liberal themes sprinkled around.

this is definitely a very late reply but maybe they think that MGS3 is more of a kind of stupid game instead of splinter cell. honestly its been a while since ive played MGS3 but i remember it was stupid to slam a dude on the ground and he be literally knocked out for a while. i think they just prefer MGS3 because IMO i like them both the same
Hex: Gon’ Give It To Ya 2021 年 2 月 22 日 下午 1:33 
引用自 Joker
No one ever used climbing or split jumping in Chaos Theory in any significant way. And hiding in the darkness goes with turning off lights with EMP pistol.

Retinal scans are nothing significant, but if that's all you have, it only shows how shallow and outdated Chaos Theory is. Maybe in 2005 I would be wet from this, but now it is a boring outdated game.

ok now i disagree here, retinal scanners ARE significant because it would be boring without SOME security besides guards. also split jumping is useful because you can split jump whistle then drop on them. also its sc pistol and the thing that turns off lights is called the OCP.
ZeFyr 2021 年 2 月 22 日 下午 2:42 
引用自 Dr. Disconnect
引用自 Joker
No one ever used climbing or split jumping in Chaos Theory in any significant way. And hiding in the darkness goes with turning off lights with EMP pistol.

Retinal scans are nothing significant, but if that's all you have, it only shows how shallow and outdated Chaos Theory is. Maybe in 2005 I would be wet from this, but now it is a boring outdated game.

ok now i disagree here, retinal scanners ARE significant because it would be boring without SOME security besides guards. also split jumping is useful because you can split jump whistle then drop on them. also its sc pistol and the thing that turns off lights is called the OCP.


Split Jump was more useful in Splinter Cell and Pandora Tomorrow I think cause you had more freedom to do it. But in Chaos Theory they baked this whole running up the wall animation, and removed the wall kick which I always felt was a shame. I never found many good places to do it in Chaos Theory or Double Agent for that matter. That is one draw back of the later games I think.

I loved Merc Vs Spy though cause Spies get a bad ass wall flip lol
UmbralPenumbra 2021 年 2 月 22 日 下午 2:47 
The acrobatic stuff had less applications in all the games than I would have hoped. Bouncing off a wall could be used to reach higher areas, but outside of the tutorial in the first game there aren't that many opportunities to do that. Most of the time you try to do it and hit an invisible wall. Kind of disappointing because all the games but especially Chaos Theory had a lot of missed chances to use it
ZeFyr 2021 年 2 月 22 日 下午 6:15 
引用自 Superfluous Man
The acrobatic stuff had less applications in all the games than I would have hoped. Bouncing off a wall could be used to reach higher areas, but outside of the tutorial in the first game there aren't that many opportunities to do that. Most of the time you try to do it and hit an invisible wall. Kind of disappointing because all the games but especially Chaos Theory had a lot of missed chances to use it

I remember using the split jump multiple times on missions in the first one, not so much in pandora tomorrow though...
UmbralPenumbra 2021 年 2 月 22 日 下午 6:22 
It's been a while but the only ones I for sure remember are in the tutorial and vaulting the wall to get into the jail on the first mission. I think there's one or two on the presidential palace when scaling the cliff
Ghidrah1 2021 年 2 月 23 日 上午 5:38 
Agreed,
Scanners have always been a staple in the espionage genre, it's easier to hack a number sequence. Otherwise there'd be no reason to pluck an eye, snip a finger off or copy a voice print? Anyone could sneak in it would be helter skelter.

I may not have much use for the split jump but when I do I drink Dos Equis. When I do use it it's the only thing that allows me to remain dark and slip by without confrontation, SCCT Bank 2nd fl hlwy.

As for the Double jump in SC1, I used it 11 times throughout the game to remain dark and to bypass areas to shorten the route to the objective I only had a use for the split jump once in the xpack Kola. It's been so long since I played PT and DA I can't remember how often or where I used them.
Incarnate 2021 年 2 月 23 日 下午 8:21 
Chaos Theory has some good features, but I gotta agree, I was really disappointed too.

A lot of it has to do with the period it came out. With the exception of Deadly Shadows or FEAR, AI was generally awful back then. In one level I saw a guy get caught on a door and another fall of a ladder and knock himself out cold. Also, the AI apparently can spot you in complete darkness and through walls. I save scummed and tested this and I could never quite figure out if this was a glitch or not.

For me the worst aspect was the incredibly clunky movement and lousy camera. When you're in a corner, or near bushes, there are moments you can't see wtf is going on. The hacking mini-game might be one of the obnoxious mechanics I've ever seen, but it's not even worse in the game because they give you a lock-picking gadget in the bank mission that makes the one fun and intuitive mechanics into a fidgety time waster. And then they put a camera right above the door you spent a minute hacking to get into to screw up your ghost run. Awesome.
BladeRX 2021 年 2 月 24 日 上午 9:10 
This. AI is so stupid it makes the game unenjoyable. What a boring game.
Ghidrah1 2021 年 2 月 24 日 下午 1:11 
I believe it has something to do with multiple save and restarts. I noticed it when I was writing my guides back in the early 00s many were calling grief code.

While writing a guide I would save a lot and restart from a particular area to get a maneuver down for a 75%+ guaranty of success. In doing so I discovered that at the onset of each new area the AI in said area have set of moves, undisturbed moves and disturbed moves.

Undisturbed they repeat over and over always beginning from the same spot routinely. When one repeatedly restarts from a particular save the AI can begin the sequence from an altered position and have a different route through said area along with a bit of preexisting attitude.

These are the times when the AI can see you motionless in total darkness and even when you're under cover behind a barrier. It drove me mental and took me a while to put the clues together enough to where the premise made sense. Those same glitches/errors/etc, never came up when I was playing for the fun of it and didn't care enough to restart if I was bagged by the AI
UmbralPenumbra 2021 年 2 月 24 日 下午 2:40 
引用自 Ghidrah1
I believe it has something to do with multiple save and restarts. I noticed it when I was writing my guides back in the early 00s many were calling grief code.

While writing a guide I would save a lot and restart from a particular area to get a maneuver down for a 75%+ guaranty of success. In doing so I discovered that at the onset of each new area the AI in said area have set of moves, undisturbed moves and disturbed moves.

Undisturbed they repeat over and over always beginning from the same spot routinely. When one repeatedly restarts from a particular save the AI can begin the sequence from an altered position and have a different route through said area along with a bit of preexisting attitude.
A lot of games have bizarre behavior when loading saves, STALKER is a good example, where reloading a save can make all the enemies be somewhere completely different or totally gone, and an enemy shooting you in the face will suddenly forget he hated you when you load the save

I never noticed how they can repeat a behavior from a messed up position, but I also didn't look either. That could definitely explain some of the difficulty and why in some situations the game feels easier the less I save

These are the times when the AI can see you motionless in total darkness and even when you're under cover behind a barrier. It drove me mental and took me a while to put the clues together enough to where the premise made sense. Those same glitches/errors/etc, never came up when I was playing for the fun of it and didn't care enough to restart if I was bagged by the AI

This is my biggest issue with the game and what I was trying to explain when I talked about my difficulties with Seoul. The final tank is in total darkness, my light meter is 0, and yet it will "see me" and gun me down. You can sometimes hear it's minigun start to whir up even though by the game rules it should have no clue where you are, and that's even if you kill the guy on top of it

Another issue is that if guards have ANY level of alert, whether it's just an idle "what was that?", but especially if they're fully alerted, and regardless of if you caused it or not such as missions like Seoul where two groups are battling, they suddenly have the ability to react instantly to things they would otherwise be unable to notice. Such as trying to airfoil a guard who is alerted but can't see me because I'm in total darkness and even behind him, he will still flinch as soon as I fire it, making the airfoil miss, or even dodge bullets as well

I wouldn't say the AI is "awful", but the main problem is that it's too stupid when unalerted, and too smart when alerted, but sometimes also too stupid when alerted. I wouldn't criticize too much since I understand trying to program stealth AI is one of the hardest things to do in games. The AI is good enough, and predictable enough that they pose some kind of challenge while also letting the player be able to exploit that predictability

Clearly in real life if a bunch of guards were protecting some extremely secret place and heard a whistling sound they would just shoot at the whistling sound or at least turn the lights on, but reality isn't always fun and it's nice to let the player feel smart. One thing from MGS2 that I wish CT had was that if you knocked out a guard there would be an alert when he failed to report. Might make the game too hard maybe? I don't know, probably would also be more incentive to stealth your way through

If you want a good example of CT AI at it's worse, then the bath house is your best bet. Not only is all the existing problems like clairvoyance and perfect accuracy magnified, but the f**king enemies have night vision. Which would be fine except that part of the level conveniently has no steam valves to turn on, nor does it pull a trick like PT where you can use light to blind them. A lot of missed opportunities there. It is kind of hilarious though when they sit there and watch smoke grenades go off and do nothing while you slink by, as if they cant figure out someone threw them and is walking through the smoke
Hex: Gon’ Give It To Ya 2021 年 2 月 24 日 下午 4:27 
guys why is this discussion so big? not saying anything bad but like its constantly getting replies
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張貼日期: 2020 年 9 月 22 日 上午 11:54
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