Most overrated stealth game?

[Joker]

Why is this game so overrated? What is good about it? AI is horrible, level design is linear and for the entire game you do the same thing: turn off lights with pistol, knock or bypass guards with the same animations, forever and ever. This game maybe was good in 2005 but it aged so horribly that now even Blacklist can be considered a pinnacle of this series.

MGS3 is a far better stealth game.

[dprog1995]

1.MGS 3 had even smaller areas.

2.MGS 3 had more cutscenes and codec dialogues and as a result it had much less gameplay time compared to Chaos Theory.

3.Controls of MGS 3 were inferior than this game. MGS 3 used pressure sensitive buttons which made you accidentally kill guards while you have grabbing them.
Cover controls are also far better designed in Splinter Cell 3 compared to MGS 3.

4.MGS 3 never had a coop mode and it needed a rerelease to get a PvP mode.

5.MGS 3 has a very bad performance on PS2.

6.In MGS 3, the game encourages you to always pause the game every few step to change your camouflage.

7.MGS 3 allows you to just run to the next area to get pass the level. No need to actually play tactically.(Since in the next area you can just allow the guards to kill you to load the game in that area without being in alert mode, Also tranqualizing every guard that you see will stop enemies from sending reinforcements.)
In Splinter Cell 3, when you go gun blazing, the guards will get more powerful weapons and get power armors.

8.MGS 3 also has that escort section which was one of the worst parts of the game.

Oh, and gameplay of Chaos Theory isn't really linear, You can get rid of guards or get pass them undetected in lots different ways.(And you even have different ways of going from A to B)

[Joker]

"Oh, and gameplay of Chaos Theory isn't really linear, You can get rid of guards or get pass them undetected in lots different ways.(And you even have different ways of going from A to B)"

Elaborate, because even the biggest fanboys of this game will agree that this stealth game is basically going from room to room and dealing with the enemies either by ghosting them (turning off lights mostly) or taking out one by one.

[dprog1995]

1.You can get pass them by distracting them with different ways.(Using Whistle, throwing some object around , using a sticky camera that makes noises, turning off the lights with your pistol or by pressing the light switch, Turning on the Radios to mask your movements.)

2.when you want to take them out, you can use the above tactics to get behind them to grab them or just use a gun to shoot them(or jump on them or use a knife to slash their necks.)

3.And if these tactics fail then you will have to take the enemies out while they are in combat mode.

4.or you can slowly sneak around them without screwing with them.(alongside using the split jump in some areas.)

As you see the game isn't that linear in gameplay. And when you backtrack to previous rooms you still see the guards that you have knocked out while in MGS 3 when you go the the next areas enemies that you have knocked out or killed have been revived.

Splinter Cell also has Quicksaves which is a necessity for stealth games.(Which MGS 3 doesn't have.)

[Joker]

1. this stuff is extremely situational and barely effective, just name one area where you can turn on radio and it will have an effect on more than one enemy (and since enemies are mostly in rooms with radio, you have to take them out before you touch a radio, for example the bedroom in the penthouse, where one guy is listening to it).

2. ok, so nothing special

4. yes, but since the game is linear, it forces you to do very cheap tactics while ghosting, like turning off every light

Quicksaves are a gamekiller, checkpoints at least keep tension alive.

[Ghidrah1]

When it comes to ghosting the SC games I'm as anal as I can be, I keep track of everything in every mission, all items and interactions. I call them distractions, you can call them diversions if you like. Below are the total stats for 10 missions in the SCCT written guide, in my SCCT videos I also include what the distractions are, visual and noise light OCP or organic sounds, (jumping or running in a tight circle). Few are from the OCP, The Cargo ship and Bathhouse (12-13) make up the majority of the total 2 of the 10 have -0-, 4 have just 1.

It all depends on how strict you are and how much effort you put into minimizing Sam's footprint
Joker, you're big time wrong about the number of killed lights.

SCCT, total end game stats

Best Total Time 2:12:44
Kills, 3
KOs, 3
Smoke 1
S Cams 5 retrieved
Distractions 20-23

[ThundercvntLord]

To compare Splinter Cell and MGS should be a crime and a senseless cause of discussion and even more so argumenting about, They are TWO VERY different games that only share one common aspect and that is "Stealth". The MSG games are both good and bad in their own ways as they are. But since this thread was started I will give my input on the whole ordeal speaking for Chaos Theory.

In Chaos Theory I only play on Expert Difficulty 100% Stealth Rating with the least amount of time used on the map as I sort of speedrun it but get every Objectives + Bonuses.

The level design is linear yes, but the amount of path and approaches you can do is very very varied if you actually start to explore the maps, some are less open than others but they offer paths to manouver.
to quote you

"Why is this game so overrated? What is good about it? AI is horrible, level design is linear and for the entire game you do the same thing: turn off lights with pistol, knock or bypass guards with the same animations, forever and ever. This game maybe was good in 2005 but it aged so horribly that now even Blacklist can be considered a pinnacle of this series."

1. The AI isn't the best but they are VERY functional and to get the best experience with the AI in this game you SHOULD play this game on Expert mode to get the most out of them. Normal/Hard difficulty is too forgiving imo. They get the job done and they will react to any traces or clues of your sloppiness during the mission. And I admit they do suck at times and I would love to see a better AI in the game.

2. Shooting out lights with your pistol is a lazy way of playing the game, and in most cases not the best way. as this makes you complacent and dont try to play differently. The game becomes many times over better the more you try different styles of approaches to the scenario at hand.

3. Knocking out guards is the easy way to play. and in my book is a No No. you only knock out guards when you either A. Can't progress the mission or B. You have to do it to finish an objective.
You want to leave every guard possible untouched and undisturbed from their patrol pattern, basically you want to avoid that they enter into a state of constant search mode.

4. Each map offers a handful of ways to get to the objective some less than others and some more than others. However I can understand the the argument that the game is linear... But dude come on! every game on the market from both past to present is linear in some form or another! Open World games can be linear mechanically speaking but amazing on map space.
Linear does not equal bad game.

5. This game isn't overrated it just happens to be the best game of the series because Ubisoft decided to choke out the full potential of the series... Double Agent had very good game concepts but they were executed so badly that you'd wanna get a stroke and a heart attack at the same time. Conviction destroyed the identity of the Splinter Cell games and its hardcore playstyle foundation. Easy to Learn HARD to master. Blacklist is OK. But I find that game to be too similar to Assassin's Creed which is both a good and a bad thing and too similar to Conviction in some aspect which is overall a bad thing but not wholly bad. The main problem I have with Blacklist is the player controls it does not allow freeflow movement. and its so clunky to play and its simply not fun as most of my 100% stealth runs on Blacklist was ruined by the poorly made control system, it was honestly very frustrating. Blacklist is by no means the pinnacle of the series there are so many problems with that game, It just happens to be the best Splinter Cell they've released since Chaos Theory.... Which is honestly a good thing but still a long way to go. Ubisoft needs to restart from the Chaos Theory formula and take what Double Agent wanted to do and do it properly and re-implement those ideas into a new Splinter Cell. What made Chaos Theory best in my opinion was the Light Meter combined with the Sound Meter as it allowed for far more better manipulation of the ambient scene to your advantage.

6. And in the regard of the game aged horribly? I would say yes and no, It did age well overall but aged not so well in other aspects. the COOP mode did not age well, but also happens to honestly be the best COOP Stealth Experience you'll ever experience if you get a solid partner with you, The problem with the COOP mode is the FPS lock and the god awful Net code. If a Remaster is issued in the near future this issue can be rectified with modern solutions.
There are many PC's with different Hardware that will have a hard time running the game properly with the Night Vision goggles not appearing properly and the Thermal vision just not displaying and other various crashes this game certainly did not age well there and I agree.

To conclude. If you want a shooter/stealth that emphasizes on shooting guards without being spotted the Splinter Cell games can do this but its not the best way to play, you want to be creative and use the enviroment to your advantage both long term and short term, Timing is key in this game. MGS aren't better than the Splinter Cell games and the Splinter Cell games aren't better than MGS they are two different titles with two very different audiences that just happens to bicker over stupid things. The two games share very little other than stealth which can be a vauge description at best by case by case basis. If you do not like this game then dont play it. If you started a thread to just bash on this community and the game you should grow up. I have not seen you explain why MGS is "Better" than the Splinter Cell games, Instead this seems more like a troll thread to start unnecessary drama.

[UmbralPenumbra]

I agree with playing for 100% on Expert, I do that with the Stealth loadout to maximize airfoils and the like. I think people who say the game is linear just may not 'see' the game the same way you or I might. Tom Clancy games and other similar tactical games back in the day had a mastery of this, such as in Rainbow Six or SWAT 4. You may be 'directed' through the experience insofar as the story will unfold a certain way, but within each mission you had a myriad of ways to complete your objectives. Despite the 'one way to go' in Chaos Theory there's a million ways you can go that one way. Do you split stance in the hallway and lure him in to drop down on him, or shoot a sticky shocker at the puddle of water he's standing in? People might dismiss this as minor variation, but it's really these choices that provide the replay value. I would prefer this linear-story many-paths style of gameplay; free open world sandbox games tend to be boring and lack the ability by their nature to create a detailed fleshed out story. I think some who feel the gameplay lacks variety might just not realize there are other options, such as in Kokubo Shosho there is a run-in with a group of guards that, even to me on my first playthrough, I assumed were unavoidable. If you actually make the attempt though you can totally bypass being captured. I would say that earlier games were more linear and had less options for the player for discovering a different path, but Chaos Theory tends to be held as the magnum opus of the Splinter Cell series for a good reason, it did pretty much everything right. I'm not fond of the comparisons to MGS either because they're very different in a lot of ways but because they both fall under the very broad category of 'stealth', the comparisons will nevertheless probably never stop being made

[Ghidrah1]

Well done L.L.

[Joker]

@ThundercvntLord
thanks for at least elaborating on your reasons why do you like this game. I'm still not convinced that the game is either good or enjoyable but at least I see how people view this game. Especially I agree with your point about how the series went to trash after Chaos Theory with mediocre (but still somehow enjoyable) DA and too casualish Blacklist (Conviction was a linear movie like the game not having much in common with the series).

I guess the game was designed to be played in a ghost playstyle, but it does not force you to play in this way so the game often makes no sense if you play anyhow different, Penthouse level for example you have an optional side mission to tap cameras even if you kill every guard.

Regarding linearity, the game also gets super quickly boring because it is just A point to B point every mission, for example, I enjoyed MGS V because at least you could plan your mission (of course different era of gaming).

I guess the game is not suited to my expectations what do I want from a game, and if I played it in 2005 I would most likely find it boring back then as well (while I enjoyed new-gen DA at the release due to at least the idea of a double agent like story, even when I found out on the recent visit to the game that it was a wasted concept).

[UmbralPenumbra]

引用自 Joker：

I guess the game was designed to be played in a ghost playstyle, but it does not force you to play in this way so the game often makes no sense if you play anyhow different, Penthouse level for example you have optional side mission to tap cameras even if you kill every guard.

Whether you kill them or not, the taps are still useful for intelligence gathering, so it can be justified in either case

The game definitely encourages being a ghost, by nature of the fact that your guns are very inaccurate when not completely still or when firing multiple shots. Also in prior games it was a game over after too many alerts, here the enemies instead react by increasing their weapons, armor and defenses. I think this was an attempt to be less punishing towards sloppy players, but in doing so may have made it less obvious that guns blazing isn't the intended way to play (subsequent games became even more action oriented like Conviction and later Blacklist probably indirectly because of this perception)

[Ghidrah1]

LL Absolutely correct on weps competition, I brained out on my 1st run that Sam can not trade lead with the AI. Which prompted me to look for ways to slick them instead of confront.

Joker you must be follower of the SC crowd of "Path of Least Resistance" players, (Kill, KO or annoy)

1. this stuff is extremely situational and barely effective, just name one area where you can turn on radio and it will have an effect on more than one enemy (and since enemies are mostly in rooms with radio, you have to take them out before you touch a radio, for example the bedroom in the penthouse, where one guy is listening to it).

Why in the world would you turn off the radio in the room or any room for that matter? If stealth is your MO, messing with it creates an unnecessary anomaly. The least intrusive method is to OCP the light and then to immediately flip the light switch. You receive the least stressful remark from the BG, he doesn't try to flip it back and you can pass through the room as often as you like without ever alerting him to your presence again.

[UmbralPenumbra]

you could also OCP the radio

[UmbralPenumbra]

引用自 Ghidrah1：

Aside from being a general distraction, GPs, I Ø out music in all the games I play.

I do this as well

[Ghidrah1]

Who goes into combat with AC/DC or Mimi Riperton blasting through their earbuds?

[UmbralPenumbra]

ROCKIN ALL THE TIME