Outdated Demo?

[kaworu83]

I played the demo and as soon as I got in game I got thrown back in time 20 years!
It felt like playing an old PS2 jrpg!
I know visuals aren't everything in a game but still, using an old engine that is supposed to be long dead is still awful! It's like wanting to use Unreal Engine 1.0 when everyone else uses UE 4.

Every other jrpg out there has drastically improved over the course of the years, games like: Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Tales of.
The only game that lags years behind all the other games is the YS series!

Why don't they just pay epic or unity their share of the profits so they can just work on the game and leave the engine bits to people who really know how to do it?
Maybe the devs are so old they only know how to use this outdated engine? If so I really hope they will hire a bunch of new devs who knows how to work on another engine!

I tried to search what kind of engine this game is running on but all I could find is this mention in an article:

Nihon Falcom’s graphical engine has never been a jawdropper, but it is showing its age in Ys IX. Some of the scene choreography comes off as clumsy and unintentionally comedic. The one that sticks out in my mind is the animation of when NPCs are running away; it honestly looks awful. The outlandish outfit designs of the Monstrums does not do it any favors either with frequent, noticeable clipping. I sincerely hope that Nihon Falcom’s investment in their new graphical engine pays off in spades whenever we might see another entry.

[Koby]

Originally posted by kaworu83:

This is supposed to be the new improved engine they worked upon? Are you kidding me? It looks like a 10 years old engine!

No. The new engine will be in the next title. As your quoted text says "new graphical engine whenever we see another entry".

Kuro no Kiseki will be the first title using Falcoms new engine I believe.

[essen]

That's not an engine problem. You need a lot of people to build assets and Falcom is still just a small developer. You can't pump out a game per year at super high graphical quality with a couple dozen people building the assets.

What the new engine brings is increased freedom via vertical movement, plus all the gameplay improvements. FF games may be pretty but they still suck hard on that front. Cheers.

[Minneyar]

Originally posted by kaworu83:

Every other jrpg out there has drastically improved over the course of the years, games like: Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Tales of.
The only game that lags years behind all the other games is the YS series!

Imagine naming the most popular RPGs in the entire world from massive AAA publishers and then being upset that a game from a tiny independent developer doesn't look as good as them. Try comparing the Ys games against something from another studio that has less than 100 employees.

By the way, most of Falcom's games for the last several years have used PhyreEngine, including Ys IX. This particular game is notable because it's the first game in which Falcom has used motion captured animation.

[Melodia]

Falcom really isn't 'tiny'. It's not some five person development studio. It's almost been around since the 80s. Just that unlike most of the other Japanese companies from back then (your Squares, your Capcoms, your Namcos, your Koeis) they didn't turn into a giant corporation, and instead stayed a medium sized development studio who self-publishes.

[toughnails]

Originally posted by Minneyar:

By the way, most of Falcom's games for the last several years have used PhyreEngine, including Ys IX. This particular game is notable because it's the first game in which Falcom has used motion captured animation.

PhyreEngine was used extensively by Idea Factory (another small JRPG developer), starting with Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory in 2012 IIRC. The engine scales well to low end hardware such as the Playstation Vita, but it's a bit of a joke in 2021, and even Idea Factory had switched to a fancy modern engine (Orochi 4 in their case) in 2017 with Megadimension Neptunia VIIR. All of their recent games such as Death end re;Quest series are running on that engine and do look much better than their Vita era titles.

I guess the boomers at Falcom are just way too stubborn and going to keep kicking the can down the road for as long as possible.

Oh and even Gust got their ducks in a row, and Atelier Ryza 2 just destroys Ys IX graphics wise, it's an infinitely better looking game despite being made on a similar budget and released in the same year.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2388716660
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2380051015
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2383762014

[Ikagura]

Originally posted by kaworu83:

I played the demo and as soon as I got in game I got thrown back in time 20 years!
It felt like playing an old PS2 jrpg!

And yet some of the best JRPG ever made were on the PS1 and PS2 (FF7, DQ8, SMT III)

Originally posted by kaworu83:

Every other jrpg out there has drastically improved over the course of the years, games like: Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Tales of.
The only game that lags years behind all the other games is the YS series!

The older FF were better both visually (because realistic foods don't make a game) and gameplay-wise, same for Tales of (Phantasia still looks great even to this day).
DQ11 is basically an upscaled DQ8 but Toriyama's style is ageless.

Originally posted by kaworu83:

Why don't they just pay epic or unity their share of the profits so they can just work on the game and leave the engine bits to people who really know how to do it?
Maybe the devs are so old they only know how to use this outdated engine? If so I really hope they will hire a bunch of new devs who knows how to work on another engine!

No thanks, we don't need Epic to put their claw on Falcom.

[kaworu83]

Originally posted by Koby:

No. The new engine will be in the next title. As your quoted text says "new graphical engine whenever we see another entry".

Kuro no Kiseki will be the first title using Falcoms new engine I believe.

Oh. you're right! I really hope the new engine doesn't look and play at all like the old one or they just wasted their money on it!

Originally posted by essen:

What the new engine brings is increased freedom via vertical movement,

Are we playing spider-man? Vertical movement, flying and grappling doesn't do anything the way they implemented it, it's just a chore with zero fun and no sense being in this game. At least that is the impression the demo gave me.

The only PC game that comes to mind with great flying grappling mechanics was Just Cause.

Originally posted by Minneyar:

a game from a tiny independent developer doesn't look as good as them. Try comparing the Ys games against something from another studio that has less than 100 employees.

Your definition of tiny is unfair:
There is this indie game that look 100 times better than any Ys games out there and I believe they are really a tiny developer and it's their first rpg ever! lol
https://store.steampowered.com/app/269190/Edge_Of_Eternity/

Originally posted by Minneyar:

most of Falcom's games for the last several years have used PhyreEngine

By the looks of it I would say for the past several decades?

Originally posted by Ikagura:

And yet some of the best JRPG ever made were on the PS1 and PS2 (FF7, DQ8, SMT III)

You seem to be missing the point of my post.
I'm not talking about gameplay here I'm just talking about the engines that are currently available on the market. One of my favourites PS2 jrpg series was Xenosaga, a fantastic game when it came out but it is no match for today engines potential.
For example: using a 100 years old outdated car in your everyday life only because it still works is not the right way to do things, you do it because you are either stubborn, cheap or both!

[Melon Sc//ence]

I'd rather choose PhyreEngine over generic UE4 graphics everytime. And Falcom has mastered using and tweaking it to their desires, why should they change? Plus it is not like they didn't consider UE4 before, but you don't simply just transfer to new engine either.

This is Kondo Toshihiro response in April 2020:

Originally posted by Kondo Toshihiro:

We considered Unreal Engine as an option at first. For the Trails of Cold Steel series, we used an external engine, and it was good enough when we just started working on the series, but as development and the series advanced, there were some incompatibilities with our game plan. For example, in the Trails of Cold Steel series, a large number of unique models are displayed during events, but the engine isn’t suitable for that sort of thing. The staff proposed that, if we move forward on that condition in the future, we would be better off with our own engine. Each [engine route] comes with its own benefits and inconveniences, I don’t think it’s a discussion of which one is superior

Falcom is a self-sufficient gaming company, they have to manage their budget strictly, their workforce efficiently, and obviously they choose the tools that work best for them too, not for you graphics spoiled.

[toughnails]

Originally posted by Ruya Shinku:

I'd rather choose PhyreEngine over generic UE4 graphics everytime.

Have you played Code Vein? It has a very similar aesthetic (chuuni anime characters in a big grey city), but UE4 pulls it off way, way better.
https://cdn.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/678960/ss_6934095e7aae433f2e373fdf2319db7df1a899fb.1920x1080.jpg
https://cdn.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/678960/ss_2b26bc9837a0b225aa7a7573c7800a8f91a6d510.1920x1080.jpg
https://cdn.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/678960/ss_8872f9fd79ef968f3a3023f17811c9f9133f7d64.1920x1080.jpg
https://cdn.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/678960/ss_ada0fd6894bcd9e1e316073f1e3ab61326d87b70.1920x1080.jpg

[essen]

Again, show me a developer the size of Falcom that releases a new game every year, more or less, that does much better in terms of graphics. The only way that'd happen is if they started recently and they could go with a more modern engine from the start.

[toughnails]

Originally posted by essen:

Again, show me a developer the size of Falcom that releases a new game every year, more or less, that does much better in terms of graphics. The only way that'd happen is if they started recently and they could go with a more modern engine from the start.

Literally Gust. They release a new Atelier game each year and Ryza 2 blows Ys IX out of the water graphics wise. See the screenshots I posted above.

Originally posted by Ruya Shinku:

what about it being mediocre Dark Souls ripoff for weebs

LMAO, Code Vein is a much better game and sold over 1 million copies, while Ys IX will be happy to break 10k. Also funny how you take a jab at "weebs", when Ys IX is a way more chuuni game with some really flamboyant character designs. The hell are you even doing here if you dislike fun anime tropes? Go play GTA V or something, lmao.
https://twitter.com/codeveingame/status/1224698151837323264

[kaworu83]

Originally posted by Ruya Shinku:

Yeah, 100 times look better but did you forget something?

Dude, chill out! I don't like white knights who blindly defend their favourite games.
You just jumped into a discussion with zero idea of what we were talking about and start spouting nonsense?

Originally posted by Minneyar:

Try comparing the Ys games against something from another studio that has less than 100 employees.

He asked me to find a better looking game from a tiny dev and I simply delivered. I'm sure there are hundreds more games out there from indie devs who look better than Ys and most of them are not rpg.

Originally posted by Ruya Shinku:

But that is not even my point, this is:
You can have the look, the graphics, but those won't save it from shallow mediocre gameplay and story.

Your point is nonsensical because reviews, gameplay, story nor animations were never on the table. I was not comparing the whole games just pointing out how an indie dev can work with a new engine and make a better looking game than these supposedly veteran devs who still work on a decade old engine.

Originally posted by Ruya Shinku:

Riiight.... what about it being mediocre Dark Souls ripoff for weebs

And you're just being rude and mean at this point.

[Daelight]

Falcom is a decent company that stayed decent for decades. They remained as such as they tried to focus on quality but with simple / old graphics and fidelity. I got to be honest here, I despise completely any other game they have, including Trails. It's just not my thing. When I played Ys VIII: Lacrimosa of Dana, it was the first time that I noticed for real the Falcom company and how great this game was, and in turn, I learned more about the Ys franchise.

Ys IX: Monstrum Nox was released back in 2019 on consoles and the company was still using the same engine with some extra fancy additions. It came on PC this year and Durante's team worked on the port. The demo is great, the gameplay is good and accurate in the button mashing and the movement feels just right from what someone would expect from a game of this caliber.

Their next (Ys X) game will have better and heavier/fancier graphics and quality, they won't stick forever to what they have, they'll take the risk of finally taking a step forward. Give it time, it will happen eventually. For now, we should be really thankful at Nihon Falcom for publishing and porting their titles WW on PC and Consoles.

Ys VIII: Lacrimosa of Dana was okay when it came out and had a lot of problems on PC from what I heard, but after a few patches, updates and graphical enhancements, it really felt like a solid and fun game that anyone could enjoy. I happened to be one of the very lucky but late few who jumped on the Ys bandwagon the last year.

My opinion? Graphics are good and nice nowadays but try to give more of a fair chance to other games, too, like Ys games. The story and the characters are good enough to keep you entertained and the gameplay system can be very addicting.

[TheBoBro]

i don't mind the graphics the way it is... if the gameplay and story is awesome that's good for me. idk why people so worked up on graphics. it's an anime game it doesn't need to be too shiny or "realistic" to me.

[Melon Sc//ence]

Originally posted by kaworu83:

Dude, chill out! I don't like white knights who blindly defend their favourite games.
You just jumped into a discussion with zero idea of what we were talking about and start spouting nonsense?

No, I think I knew exactly what I was talking about. I even stated clearly the reason why Falcom did not choose to go with Unreal Engine 4 or Unity, yet no one bats an eye. Why? Because you guys are spoiled as f about graphics, graphics and graphics all the time, which makes my blood really boil.

You guys even gave bad examples by showing games that are backed by rich mega AAA companies, or those being new with fancy graphics but lack the polishness and turned out mediocre just to crap over Falcom, who try their best to balance between story-gameplay and graphics over the years. How is this a fair comparison?

Originally posted by kaworu83:

Your point is nonsensical because reviews, gameplay, story nor animations were never on the table

See? That is exactly my point, you guys don't care about gameplay, story nor actual experience be like, yet those are important points that game developers should focus on to make a good game, not just graphics alone!!!

And you are the one that spouted nonsense by starting this thread in the first place, even worse with this:

Originally posted by kaworu83:

Every other jrpg out there has drastically improved over the course of the years, games like: Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Tales of.

This clearly shows you only looking at those games improving and feel like Ys series has been stagnantly staying the same.

In reality, if you actually look at the Ys series evolution, you will see how drastically it has improved:
From flat 2D sprites & pixels of Ys I & II to well mixed of 2D sprites and 3D areas: Ark - Oath - Origin, then to full 3D models like SEVEN, and then comes vast improvement in effects, models and world details in Celceta, then to full blown 3D world in Ys VIII and IX, and X will use the newer engine (with Kuro no Kiseki as testing water of course) too. Am I the only one seeing this?

Obviously their evolution is quite slow compared to others and that is expected for their size and strict on being efficient. I too was hoping they could reach the same level as Capcom, Bandai, SE and more, but lets be realistic and honest here, it is impossible (for now). And yet you guys still talk like they have a big bag of money ready to pour all in just for graphics all the time. What about their in-house engine development? Their music composers and band? The cost to make not only Trail or Ys series but other IPs of their as well? Or hiring good voice actors not only in JP but also ENG? What about global localization and porting partnership deal?

But guess what, lets forget all that, just graphics, graphics and graphics alone!