Do you think Ys can survive in a post Genshin Impact world?

[Dragon]

Genshin Impact is pretty much a clone of Ys in many ways...but with GI having a vastly higher budget than any Ys game does.

And unlike any given Ys games, GI constantly will be getting new updates and more content forever.

Whereas Ys games die shortly after they are released, because they never get any new content, other than a few months worth of patches or something like that right when they first come out.

So in other words: any one Ys games has zero long-term potential to keep the players engaged with it.

Whereas in contrast, Genshin Impact has unlimited long-term potential to keep the players engaged with it.

Also, Genshin Impact has vastly more players than any Ys game does. And the players who already are playing GI will potentially have little reason to switch to Ys, since then they will be paying out ~$60 USD order to get a ~30-60 hour experience or what not, after which they can get no more enjoyment out of it.

But they would be paying a relatively high price in order to get an experience that is very similar - yet much shorter - to the one that they are already having with GI.

So why would they want to do that?

Do you guys see what I'm saying?

What do you think of these matters?

Will GI become the Ys-killer? Or even if it's not GI only, but also GI-like games as a whole (i.e. Granblue Fantasy: Relink is coming in a couple of years, which also seems to be a higher-budgeted Ys clone that could potentially stomp on the Ys franchise).

[essen]

I have zero interest in Genshin Impact. It's a gacha game, it automatically goes into the "not interested" category. It could be the best game in the world, it'd be a straight nope.

It having new content added "forever" doesn't mean you would play it 7/7 forever. They can't add new content that fast. Redoing the same content over and over gets boring, especially in a mostly solo game. Plus I'm sure if you don't pay you have to wait to progress further, right? So even if you play it you still have time for other games.

Is the difficulty even there? Many Ys players play it on Nightmare or above because that's where the real fun is.

[Ikagura]

Tl;Dr?

[Doomlord]

Well first: gimme a tl;dr version, because I'm not reading a novel intended to sell me a f*cking gacha game of all things.
Second: Falcom don't really give a hoot.
Third: The moment Winnie pulls the servers all that content people paid shekels for will be gone forever. Meanwhile, all of Ys is on GoG as well so you can make backup copies and play them till the end of time even if the servers die.

[Minneyar]

First, gacha games are a cancer. As you can see here, despite how there are many people who are willing to play them, there are also many people who refuse to give any consideration to game that are fundamentally designed to exploit people with addictive personalities and con them out of thousands of dollars. "But you can play for free!", is the common retort, of course, ignoring that there are many people who tell themselves that but cannot stop themselves from dumping money into it, and you are content to let companies exploit those people so that you can have your free game. Many countries around the world are pushing increasingly restrictive laws regarding these kinds of games, some going so far as to classify them as gambling, and I would not be surprised to see their grip on the market slowly die off over the next decade. And when the company does pull the plug, you will immediately lose everything and never be able to play the game again.

Second, another serious issue with the industry is the obsession with the eternal game. Developers want to make a game that players will play endlessly, slowly eking out bits of content over thousands of hours, grinding daily on the same repetitive missions as they wait for new content. Somehow, many players have even bought into the belief that this is better than a game that provides a finished narrative with 30-60 hours of high-quality content that respects players' time. It's not. If you're bored and have nothing better to do, you could just play the same game over again, but I prefer to be constantly experiencing new things.

That is, of course, all aside from the fact that despite being third person perspective action games, they're very different in terms of content. Has the thought, "Genshin Impact is just like Ys!" ever seriously gone through any person's head? Do you really think that's a similar gameplay experience?

[Ikagura]

Publicado originalmente por Dragon:

Whereas Ys games die shortly after they are released, because they never get any new content, other than a few months worth of patches or something like that right when they first come out.

So in other words: any one Ys games has zero long-term potential to keep the players engaged with it.

Whereas in contrast, Genshin Impact has unlimited long-term potential to keep the players engaged with it.

Also, Genshin Impact has vastly more players than any Ys game does. And the players who already are playing GI will potentially have little reason to switch to Ys, since then they will be paying out ~$60 USD order to get a ~30-60 hour experience or what not, after which they can get no more enjoyment out of it.

This is one of the stupidest take I've ever read from you (or on any Ys forum).

A game that is already complete and doesn't need any new content can still be worth replaying after.

Why are people still redoing games like FF7 or even any old Mario despite having no updates?

People are still playing (and even speedrunning) older Ys games as well, no need to add more than what's needed.

PS: also stop using the "dollars per hour" system because some games that are rather short are still good to play compared to some empty open worlds with 50+ hours.

Publicado originalmente por Minneyar:

Second, another serious issue with the industry is the obsession with the eternal game.
Developers want to make a game that players will play endlessly, slowly eking out bits of content over thousands of hours, grinding daily on the same repetitive missions as they wait for new content. Somehow, many players have even bought into the belief that this is better than a game that provides a finished narrative with 30-60 hours of high-quality content that respects players' time. It's not.
If you're bored and have nothing better to do, you could just play the same game over again, but I prefer to be constantly experiencing new things.

Agreed, the whole "game as a service" thing from AAA devs is becoming rampant and is also destroying any sort of preservation.

[Koby]

GI is gatcha, Ys is action-rpg. Seems entirely different to me.

[Ikagura]

Ys survived in a post-Breath of the Wild world, Ys survived in a post-Skyrim world...

I'm pretty sure the series will survive any big new action game with RPG elements made in decades

[Sparka]

Ys is single player for the most part...GI is a dumb gacha...no idea why you people like "games" like that....just go shopping...at at mall

[somedude212]

Action MMORPGs with gacha elements have existed long before Genshin Impact. I don't understand the whole hype behind GI's being some kind of gaming world-changer; it is fun but there is hardly any renovation in it that can potentially impact gaming as whole (unlike say Souls games which carved out its own genre). Meanwhile, Ys series has not only survived but also steadily gained more fame and sales worldwide. So yeah it will survive as long as Falcom keeps its quality up. You don't need to sell best to survive in the market; you just need to sell enough to turn a profit.

In fact, one may argue that Ys series can survive longer than GI since trend can be a fickle thing. For example, over past two decades, Ys series went through engine changes and system overhauls so it can fit better with the time. It would be substantially more difficult for GI to perform these changes as a MMORPG.

[Melodia]

Genshin isn't any sort of game changer. It's just popular *shrug*

[Dragon]

Publicado originalmente por Doomlord:

Well first: gimme a tl;dr version,

Ok, here is a TL;DR version:

Competitors to Ys games, such as GI, may pose a danger to Ys' survival, because GI has:

- a vastly higher budget and all the perks that come with that, i.e. better graphics, better voice actors, more voice-acting, better music, etc. etc.

- continuous updates with new content forever to keep the players engaged on a perpetual basis...unlike any Ys games, which die shortly after they release because they don't have continuous new content

- people who are already invested in games like GI may be reluctant to shell out $60 USD for a new Ys game, when they've already put money into a similar game that they can keep playing without incurring further financial expenses.

Thus ends my TL;DR.

The rest of this post is me replying to other posts that are not part of my TL;DR.

Publicado originalmente por Koby:

GI is gatcha, Ys is action-rpg. Seems entirely different to me.

They are more the same than different.

GI is gacha and ARPG at the same time, and with very similar gameplay mechanics to Ys (and with better everything else than Ys).

Publicado originalmente por Minneyar:

Do you really think that's a similar gameplay experience?

Whilst I agree with you about the point GI has massive grinding & repetition whereas Ys does not (at least not anywhere to remotely the same degree; GI is definitely infinitely worse in those regards), and that GI is different because it has gacha scam mechanics and Ys does not, aside from those points, they are very similar in their core gameplay mechanics.

I.e. You bash enemies with a weapon and/or spells, in real-time, in a fantasy world, and you have a party, and you swap out characters with different abilities when it's beneficial to do so based upon the combat situation you are in at the moment. And you explore the world to find hidden treasures and such.

Also, your point about the "eternal game" being nothing but grind & repetition is not the full story with GI in particular, because although it certainly does have endless grind and repetition (which you are right isn't good)... it also has continuous new story events, new story quests, and new lands being added to the world.

All of those things are very good...and when a new large region is added, it's akin to about the amount of substantive content as would be in a whole new Ys game. So this is the part of the "eternal game" concept that gives GI a huge advantage over Ys (the grinding or endlessly repetitive content is not though).

Publicado originalmente por somedude212:

more difficult for GI to perform these changes as a MMORPG.

GI is not really a MMORPG though. It's a singleplayer ARPG with some minor multiplayer elements tacked onto it.

Publicado originalmente por Minneyar:

First, gacha games are a cancer. As you can see here, despite how there are many people who are willing to play them, there are also many people who refuse to give any consideration to game that are fundamentally designed to exploit people with addictive personalities and con them out of thousands of dollars.

I 100% agree with all of that.

But despite all that being true, GI is still a very good game, even though it simultaneously promotes predatory gambling practices which I don't like either and I can understand why many people won't play it for that reason.

Although I'm pretty such it's still the most popular game of 2020 even if there are many who won't play it due to its gambling scam mechanics.

Publicado originalmente por essen:

Plus I'm sure if you don't pay you have to wait to progress further, right? So even if you play it you still have time for other games.

Is the difficulty even there? Many Ys players play it on Nightmare or above because that's where the real fun is.

Yes you have to pay or else wait to progress further if you don't pay.

But at the same time, they designed the game in such a way how it's in the player's best interest to logon at least once or twice a day in order to gain rewards that refresh after time has passed, even if they are a non-paying player.

So whilst you are right that you still have time for other games, the GI players still might get tired out at the idea of moving to a different ARPG (i.e. Ys) after being caught up in the treadmill of constantly logging into GI all the time every day.

And GI also has tons of materials that needed to be grinded off of many different mini-bosses in order to make your characters stronger....which are a totally separate reward system to the time-gated (and/or money-gated, because cash bypasses the time-gate) main one.

So even people who are waiting for their main rewards to refresh over time after they've used them all for the day...a lot of them will still be in the GI game anyway, because they are grinding the mini-bosses for materials (which you don't have to spend any resources in order to collect the mats from the mini-bosses).

As for the difficulty: for most of the content, no, it doesn't have much difficulty. But the end-game mini-Dungeons are difficult...mostly because they require massively-grinded-out characters that have tons of time and energy (and probably real money too, most likely) invested into them.

And for the end-game mini-dungeons you also need a wide variety of different characters (which also takes tons of grinding and/or money to acquire).

[essen]

Yes gacha games typically require logging in every day to get rewards. They're built to be addictive, much like many mobile applications. It's not surprising that it originates from mobile as well.

The games are fundamentally different if one is gacha and requires you to grind a ton and the other isn't. It doesn't matter if combat is similar. Even if you want all items and bestiary and max levels and everything you're not going to grind all that much in Ys and other similar games.

And as you say the difficulty is not the same, so I'm not sure how the combat can be better if you have to wait end game to repeatedly grind the few more difficult dungeons (which probably won't be as difficult after the first few times). So again not quite the same game.

[somedude212]

The problem is that you are mostly using your subjective opinion that GI is similar to or better than Ys for your argument.

Publicado originalmente por Dragon:

- a vastly higher budget and all the perks that come with that, i.e. better graphics, better voice actors, more voice-acting, better music, etc. etc.

The higher budget doesn't necessarily mean the higher quality as many AAA games can attest. I enjoy the better graphics and world exploration of GI but for battle system and music, I like Ys's much better.

Publicado originalmente por Dragon:

- continuous updates with new content forever to keep the players engaged on a perpetual basis...unlike any Ys games, which die shortly after they release because they don't have continuous new content

And how big and engaging most of these updates are? Having played several of these gacha games, I know they tend to be small and have little of actual substance, mostly designed to keep people grinding until the next "major" update. There are people who would rather wait 3 years (the regular interval between each Ys game release nowadays) for the completely new and full experience than deal with these stretched-out grind sessions. The time will tell how GI handles its updates but forgive me if I am skeptical.

Publicado originalmente por Dragon:

I.e. You bash enemies with a weapon and/or spells, in real-time, in a fantasy world, and you have a party, and you swap out characters with different abilities when it's beneficial to do so based upon the combat situation you are in at the moment. And you explore the world to find hidden treasures and such.

Publicado originalmente por Dragon:

- people who are already invested in games like GI may be reluctant to shell out $60 USD for a new Ys game, when they've already put money into a similar game that they can keep playing without incurring further financial expenses.

There are lots of games that have the core mechanics which you described. Yet they can be executed in such different ways that most wouldn't even consider them similar at all. For example, Xenoblade 2's battle system fits that description perfectly and yet nobody claims it's similar to Ys or GI.
As for Ys, having flash move and flash guard really makes the combat feel different from GI.

[Minneyar]

Publicado originalmente por Dragon:

Publicado originalmente por Doomlord:

Well first: gimme a tl;dr version,

Competitors to Ys games, such as GI, may pose a danger to Ys' survival

There is a fundamental problem with this argument, regardless of any of Genshin Impact's qualities, in that it assumes the survival of series is a zero-sum game, and that one game or series becoming more popular will cause another to lose popularity.

Falcom has always been a small developer that does their own thing regardless of other trends, and they'll keep making Ys games as long as they feel like it (and can afford to pay their employees). There have always been huge AAA developers making blockbuster action games that get all the press attention; Genshin Impact is just the latest hot thing. It's not going to affect Ys' "survival" any more than NieR: Automata or God of War or Bayonetta did.

[Chomp]

I am loving Genshin Impact but i am also very much looking forward to Ys 9. I never even thought about comparing these two games to be honest.
Also this whole argument about one Game killing another game is so weird. Fortnite, Pubg and Apex exist and still gamers that like shooters buy most shooters even if it is for a 10 hour story or sth.