This game is such a step down from Nioh 2

[Xyion]

This game is an abomination. Performance issues aside the game doesn't function.

The combat is woeful, who thought this Ki system was a good idea? Does it ever improve? You block attacks your reward -> Stand and wait for Ki
You parry attacks your reward -> attack twice and wait for Ki
You dodge attacks your reward -> Stand and wait for Ki
You land attacks your reward -> Flick blood of your blade for 1 attack.

There is no combat flow at all, the martial arts part of the combat is a disgrace I'm using dual weapons each attack has a huge windup and unusable as all enemies have super armor. And then why would you even bother cuz guess what ALL YOUR KI IS GONE. All my fights end up in just staring at the AI becuase I have 0 agency as I have 0 Ki to perform any abilities. Dodges shouldn't cost Ki thats an instant fix.

I'm either missing some key part of teh combat or this is a dog water game.

[D. Flame]

İlk olarak Tiasmoon tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak D. Flame tarafından gönderildi:

Nothing will ever be as good as Nioh 2 sadly.

I still don't get why people overrate Nioh 2 so much. Heck, after replaying the game recently I get it even less.

Its a good game and I enjoyed it a lot the first time. But its by no means some once of a generation game or something. If anything the first Nioh should be getting that praise.
The second reused its assets, build on its core systems and improved some aspects of the game while dumbing others down.

Youkai abilities/form really downgraded the overall combat experience imo and Nioh 2 has the least memorable or fun boss fights (pre-dlc) out of both Nioh games, Wo Long and probably also this. (will have to see if I still hold that view after finishing the game)

People complained a lot about Wo Long but its core combat feels a lot better and the (human, and some of the non-human) boss fights are a lot more fun as a result tbh.

With all that said from what ive seen im in the minority when it comes to considering Nioh 1 an overall better game then Nioh 2.

İlk olarak Xyion tarafından gönderildi:

You referring to holding block? Yes I do that. My problem is that it consumes Ki. Everything consumes Ki. I'm staring more at my Ki bar than playing the game. It's so frustrating.

İlk olarak Xyion tarafından gönderildi:

This game is very rigid and you can only realistically attack 3-4 times before having to be on the defensive one more.

What you are describing here is what my recent experience replaying Nioh 2 was like. Prior to endgame or NG+ cycles when its possible to get higher stats (Ki, Ki regen, etc) that game feels a lot more limiting in terms of Ki. Also because you have to choose between either attacks and dodge, or guard taking a lot of Ki. And between a few heavy hits or a bunch of weak hits.


...and lets not even talk about that bs darkrealm stuff.

Maybe your still used to the Nioh 2 endgame/NG+ experience?

Sounds like you were just not very good at Nioh 2, or you didn't use a weapon that suited your playstyle. Each weapon is pretty unique in Nioh2.

[someoneproud]

Sounds like you just suck ♥♥♥♥ tbf. I don't have any issues with Ki management and I fight very aggressively. Nioh 2 is a great game but maybe it's time you learned something else.

[Tiasmoon]

İlk olarak D. Flame tarafından gönderildi:

Sounds like you were just not very good at Nioh 2, or you didn't use a weapon that suited your playstyle. Each weapon is pretty unique in Nioh2.

Each weapon is indeed unique in Nioh 2 and it does matter. You dont have to tell me that. I'm after all one of the people who has always argued that, even when many would claim ''weapon choice doesnt matter, they are all as good''. No, the weapon makes a lot of difference.

IE: using Spear or Odachi to outrange many attacks and also dont have to spend as much time within enemy attack range, and thus have a much easier time especially against larger enemies.

However when it comes down to it regular weapon attacks still take a huge backseat to Youkai abilities and Burstcounter. Part of this is because Ki usage is too high. Something that is fixed with stats you gain from higher levels, aka NG+ cycles. Part of it is because the combat flow for regular attacks isn't that good and their damage is low unless you go for high stance in which case their flow gets much worse. And part of it is because changing phases is a lot more important.

The weapons and style I mostly played with in both Nioh games (low stance sword, dual wield and spear) went a good way to fixing the Ki usage issues, but its kind of a game design problem that I felt forced to use low stance as much as I did.

Not in order to defeat bosses, but in order to have more fun with a more aggressive playstyle.

[D. Flame]

İlk olarak Tiasmoon tarafından gönderildi:

Part of this is because Ki usage is too high. Something that is fixed with stats you gain from higher levels, aka NG+ cycles. Part of it is because the combat flow for regular attacks isn't that good and their damage is low unless you go for high stance in which case their flow gets much worse. And part of it is because changing phases is a lot more important.

Skill issue.

Each stance had it's own gimmick. High stance was for damage. Low stance was for low commitment and mobility, and Mid stance was a jack of all trades. I also preferred spear, so lets use that as an example.

If you were surrounded by a lot of enemies you would use low stance so you could poke then get away safely, or if you had a buff on your weapon, you would use low stance to land a tone of hits to apply the status quickly.

If you were fighting a troublesome enemy, and you wanted to out range them with pokes, you used mid stance, and this was the stance that I would stay in by default.

If you wanted to dodge a tanky enemy's, especially yokai, attack then hit them with a strong attack of your own to break Ki, then you would use high stance. High stance was also great at dodge single attacks with lingering hit boxes. The attack on spear that was a vertical strike was especially useful for breaking Yokai horns, like Enki's.

Etc.

The as you level Ki became less limited, but even from the start of the game. you could ki pulse to keep it topped up. Then you started getting things like flux so you could get different was of ki pulsing in your combos.

Then once your ki was empty, you could still use Yokai skills, and your ki would be refilling as the yokai skill was active, meaning that you could use them as both a combo ender and a ki refresh.

[Rukkard]

Wipe the blood after each combo and you will never have ki problems when being aggressive. Counter spark and blade flashing is rewarding. Blocking, dodging and mindless spamming is punishing. The overall combat design is good.

[D. Flame]

İlk olarak Rukkard tarafından gönderildi:

Wipe the blood after each combo and you will never have ki problems when being aggressive. Counter spark and blade flashing is rewarding. Blocking, dodging and mindless spamming is punishing. The overall combat design is good.

Also don't turtle. If you are holding block even when they are not attacking, your stamina isn't properly recharging.

[ShadowWolf7272]

İlk olarak Xyion tarafından gönderildi:

This game is an abomination. Performance issues aside the game doesn't function.

The combat is woeful, who thought this Ki system was a good idea? Does it ever improve? You block attacks your reward -> Stand and wait for Ki
You parry attacks your reward -> attack twice and wait for Ki
You dodge attacks your reward -> Stand and wait for Ki
You land attacks your reward -> Flick blood of your blade for 1 attack.

There is no combat flow at all, the martial arts part of the combat is a disgrace I'm using dual weapons each attack has a huge windup and unusable as all enemies have super armor. And then why would you even bother cuz guess what ALL YOUR KI IS GONE. All my fights end up in just staring at the AI becuase I have 0 agency as I have 0 Ki to perform any abilities. Dodges shouldn't cost Ki thats an instant fix.

I'm either missing some key part of teh combat or this is a dog water game.

So.. dodging in Nioh2 also costs ki (stamina) blocking generally is bad and countersparking is often the best way to play defensive.. I use Katana and Odachi as well as dual swords and polearms and it all depends on the stances, the Aisu stance for katana for instance its EXTREMELY fast, and no you dont run out of KI EVER for doing two attacks, maybe if you SPAM martial skills (much in the same way you run outta Ki spamming your specials in Nioh 2...)

Blade flashing at full gives like half your stamina bar back, can even throw in a few pistol shots to let it regen, you land a crit? animation is so long guess what, full stamina! often times enemies dont always have hyper armor, any jump attack guys you can easily slap outta the air with good timing, and anytime they do an unblockable thats a free stagger if you time it right

seriously this game is Nioh 2 on steroids in terms of combat...

[TOKC1998]

I will argue that Rise is still a great game but yeah Nioh 2 is better, but it also has the advantage of being a far more linear and controlled experience from a design perspective so most encounters could be more easily tested and planed in order to make each encounter and enemy more nuanced and intricate. It takes far more time and resources to do that for something open world and it's a miracle when a game of this scope and style turns out with decent combat. Ronin is certainly no Elden Ring in that regard, not even close but for the devs first attempt at bringing their gameplay formula to an open world it's not bad at all and could have been far worse.

[Tiasmoon]

İlk olarak ShadowWolf7272 tarafından gönderildi:

seriously this game is Nioh 2 on steroids in terms of combat...

That is my sentiment as well. Also: we can jump.

İlk olarak D. Flame tarafından gönderildi:

Skill issue.

The amount of Ki restored is based on stats + ki flux timing (which can restore a lot of Ki but also interupts flow of combat)

You can't just use the same argument I did (in regards to your comment about Wo Long's combat) and expect it to just work despite giving worse reasoning to support it.
Me saying ''its a skill issue'' isnt a correct (or incorrect) argument because im saying those words, its a correct (or incorrect) argument because of the reasoning behind me using those words given the context I used them in.

İlk olarak D. Flame tarafından gönderildi:

Each stance had it's own gimmick. High stance was for damage. Low stance was for low commitment and mobility, and Mid stance was a jack of all trades.

You list some very basic things that everyone who played the game knows and that dont address my points.

İlk olarak D. Flame tarafından gönderildi:

The as you level Ki became less limited, but even from the start of the game. you could ki pulse to keep it topped up.

Thats not true. I have been playing Nioh 2 again right before this game released. For quite some time Ki Flux isn't enough to keep it topped up because you can't use it fast enough and it doesnt restore enough Ki since its also based on stats which early on are very low. (not to mention you have to unlock the special missions to upgrade Ki Flux)

Waiting for full pulse recovery allows the enemy to recover from being hit-stunned if they arent a Youkai that's broken as it causes you to have to periodically stop, which also kills the flow of combat.

This is fine if you are playing the game with hit-run or guerilla warfare, (which to be fair, is what most players do since its much easier to play that way) but for a aggressive playstyle its a pain. For a playstyle like that Ki Flux just doesnt work well enough before you get a ton of stats to off-set the issues its mechanics have.

This would be a non-issue if the timing for perfect Ki Flux was much closer to the end of an attack. Ironically its the forgiving nature of Ki Flux that makes it pretty lacking for aggressive playstyles. You cant Ki Flux too early, you have to wait for it to build up.

Nioh's 'stamina' system just isnt great for aggressive playstyles. (untill NG+ cycles when you have much more stats) Attacking costs too much Ki. Blocking if your toughness isnt high costs too much Ki. Dodging if your Agility isnt high costs too much Ki. In that game you can (and early on: will) run out of Ki before you can complete a proper (short) combo.

Its also annoying because it becomes a game of ''constantly watch your Ki bar'' instead of watching the enemy.

Wo Long massively improved on the Ki- Ki Flux system. While not quite as good as that, Rise of the Ronin's system is still better then Nioh 2's. Because Ki Flux sucks (for aggressive playstyles)

Again, this is NG. NG+ in Nioh Ki management becomes a lot better because it scales in various ways with stats. Be it Ki Recovery, Ki Pulse Recovery, Max Ki, Ki Reductions, etc.
And ofcourse also indirectly through things like +Anima gains and becoming able to use Youkai abilities more frequently.

Now if you dont care about aggressive playstyles, fair enough. I can see Nioh being a lot better for you. But for me, who does, its clear Nioh's combat isnt as satisfying as Wo Long or this game's combat.

That's not to say there's ''no'' options for aggressive playstyles at all. Nioh 2 does have some (like the ones I listed in my previous post) but its a difference of going out to look for them and finding lackluster options, vs just getting great options from the start in Wo Long and a couple of hours into the game in Rise of Ronin.

If I want to use a different weapon style in Rise of the Ronin I dont have to get used to dealing noodles for damage or attack animations that feel like I debuff myself with Sloth, like what happens in Nioh 2 if you use Low Stance or High Stance.

So yeah. Its not even just the Ki system. They also tried too hard to normalize Low/High stance speed and damage and made the basic combos (in most, not all) cases suck so players would use skills more. If that wasnt the case it wouldnt feel so bad to use high stance (or even many mid stance) attacks while playing aggressively.

The more I look at it, the more I realise how much of an evolution of the formula they had with Wo Long's combat system (and atleast in this respect, also Rise of the Ronin) where using regular attacks actually feels good.


Again, this is for aggressive playstyles. For 'souls-like' hit-and run tactics or people who play with slower weapons, I can see why they would enjoy Nioh 2 more.

[D. Flame]

İlk olarak Tiasmoon tarafından gönderildi:

-snip-

Skill issue.

If you really just want to spam attacks for days in Nioh 2, you can. See Below:

https://youtu.be/iRo2SyLbtc8?si=Z8p4xGXaytIxP1kL

[Lumen Gaudiosum]

İlk olarak Xyion tarafından gönderildi:

I'm either missing some key part of teh combat or this is a dog water game.

No you're not missing anything, you are simply right. It is a step down from Nioh 2, even the stats upgrade screen in of itself is simply streamlined. It looks like they wanted to go the Ghost of Tsushima route through open world exploration and simplified level of combat while maintaining quest/character interaction. It's quite interesting that combat being Team Ninja's talent has been culled to be anything other than what they were good at. As to the Ki issues, some of the time the enemies can't even hit you even when you do not dodge or block.

[DarugaX]

Just because the game is made by the same company doesn't mean the game has to play exactly the same way so stop comparing ♥♥♥♥ to nioh. Y'all did the same thing when wo long came out.

[Inwhiteno]

This game is such a step up from Wo Long

[Kashra Fall]

İlk olarak Daruga tarafından gönderildi:

Just because the game is made by the same company doesn't mean the game has to play exactly the same way so stop comparing ♥♥♥♥ to nioh. Y'all did the same thing when wo long came out.

Was actually worse. When Wo Long released the demo on PC, they got the first fight nerfed because people couldn't beat it =o.

[Littlefatcat]

Sounds like a skill issue