Melee and hot tub ruins the game

[Banana Duck ඞ]

Melee:
Melee ruins the game due to it being way better than guns and due to melee not using up ammo. Melee nullifies resource management and renders ammo pointless. It would be best if melee didnt exist so that that way then ammo becomes a meaningful useful resource and would make ammo scarce, this would make the game so much better. Im going to go through the game next time i play it with only using guns and not melee because i know its going to make it a much more enjoyable experience. A fix for this would be to give melee ammo, you could give melee a durability mechanic, so like... make it so that you can only hit enemies with your sword 30 times before it breaks so that you then need to spend 10 toothwheels in order to fix it so that you can hit enemies 30 times again before it breaks again. This essentially would give melee ammo and make make hitting enemies with melee cost toothwheels, the same way as hitting enemies with guns costs toothwheels.

Hot Tub:
Get rid of the hot tub healing you, it ruins the game because it makes the game stupidly easy, the hot tub is such a massive cheese, the hot tub is poorly designed because it makes it so that you can go and kill enemies till you are close to dying and then just run to the hot tub in order to fully heal yourself for no cost and then go back to killing enemies again and rinse repeat. This also makes med kits useless because you can just heal yourself for free without using a med kit using the hot tub, i havnt used a single medkit since i unlocked the ability to use the hot tub due to this (except for in boss fights), only time med kits are needed to be used are in boss fights, but med kits arent needed anywhere else in the game due to the hot tub. This is also poorly designed because its a chore to keep running all the way back to the hot tub every time you are close to dying and it makes it even more of a chore that you have to sit in the hot tub for such a long time in order to be healed. This also makes med kits near useless and makes med kits not scarce enough. Im going to play the game without ever using the hot tub the next time i go through it as i know that its going to make the game a much more enjoyable experience.

Both melee and the hot tub both cause the same problem; which is that they both render resources useless and nullify resource management. Melee renders ammo useless, and the hot tub renders med kits useless.

Fix: Get rid of melee weapons or give melee weapons ammo (give them a durability mechanic). Remove the hot tubs ability to heal you.

[Banana Duck ඞ]

Originally posted by GODKaiserOs:

na sry the javelin is literaly one of the worst weapons in the game. thing breaks after killing like 2 enemies in ng and with the inflated health numbers in ng+9 killing even a single standard doll enemy with the thing pretty much breaks it. also iirc the javelin and the saber need exactly the same amount of hits to kill an enemy making saber the superior choice all around.

Worst weapon in the game!? what!? its the best weapon in the game by far. It doesnt break, what? it breaks after hitting enemies a certain amount of times? its never broke for me, and i have gone on a spree of killing lots of enemies and killing entire bosses with it without it ever breaking. Is it gone forever when it breaks? or it comes back when leaving the room? The Throwing Spear does way more damage than the Saber, Saber does 2.5 damage, Throwing Spear does 6 damage, so it does more than double the Sabers damage.
If it breaks; then thats bad, but its never broke for me. Like i said; its by far the best weapon in the game, its better than guns because it doesnt need to be reloaded because picking it up (reloading it) has no animation because the game pauses while you're picking it up, and it has unlimited ammo, and it also does a ton of damage. I used nothing but the Throwing Spear the for the rest of the game ever since i got it from killing the 2nd boss. It renders guns useless because its a projectile weapon same as guns are projectile weapons while being straight up better than guns, and its better than any melee weapons.
You're also comparing Saber to Throwing Spear but they arent really comparable at all because one is a projectile weapon whereas the other is a melee weapon.
Saber is usable against normal enemies, but why not just use Throwing Spear instead as its so much better? You need a projectile weapon (such as the Throwing Spear) for bosses, good luck trying to kill bosses with a melee weapon lol

[GODKaiserOs]

theres literaly an achievement to kill a certain boss with only melee and alot of people do melee only runs.

the 6dmg only accounts for the projectile. when used in melee it does the exact same dmg as the saber. also 6dmg is not great for a projectile which you have to retrieve before using it again. meaning dps is lacking.

javelin also has a smaller hitbox than the saber in melee.

And yes it can and will break very easily against enemies in higher difficulty cicles as theyre healthpool increases and if you want all the achievements you have to beat the game like 4-5 times in a row making the weapon pretty much unusable.

If it breaks you get it back by switching rooms which also isnt great as it means you either do alot of unecessary backtracking. or are stuck without melee/ranged option for the rest of the room depended on what you substitute in your loadout for the javelin

these are all things that exist since the weapon was introduced and why pretty much everyone agrees on it being a wasted spot.

[Banana Duck ඞ]

Originally posted by GODKaiserOs:

Yeah i know about the achievment for only using Melee against 3rd boss, and i know that people do melee only runs, im just saying that projectile weapons are easier to use against bosses than melee weapons.
I know that the damage is only for throwing it, i know that it does the exact same damage as Saber when melee, i know that it has a smaller hitbox than Saber when melee, why are you talking about its melee?... i never said anything about its melee, im talking about its projectile, not its melee, its melee is meaningless and irrelevant. Why would you use its melee when throwing it is just straight up better... and the Spear is useless to melee with because the Saber is much better than the Spear.
Ive only played NG+0, the Spear never broke for me and i killed every enemy with it (except for first 2 bosses ofcourse). Throwing Spear is best weapon in the game atleast for NG+0 due to the reasons that i gave being that it is a projectile weapon, has unlimited ammo, doesnt need to be reloaded, and has high damage, it is literally straight up better than any gun (and it is much better than any melee). I used nothing but the Throwing Spear the entire game killing all enemies and killing all bosses with it (except for the first 2 bosses obviously). I find it strange that everyone goes on about how OP the Saber is when the Throwing Spear is much much more OP

[8bitvision]

You may need to verify the integrity of the game files or run a malware scan against your computer if it is forcing you to use those features. That’s really weird.

[bear]

so the javelin ruins the game right

[Banana Duck ඞ]

Originally posted by 8bitvision:

You may need to verify the integrity of the game files or run a malware scan against your computer if it is forcing you to use those features. That’s really weird.

I know its not forcing me to use them, i literally said in my post that im going to go through the game the next time i play it without using them. I have done a playthrough now without using hot tub or melee (or throwing spear) this time around and it has been a much better experience having to manage med kit and ammo resources and actually having med kits and ammo mean something

[Banana Duck ඞ]

Originally posted by bear:

so the javelin ruins the game right

Yes (throwing the Spear does, meleeing with it is pointless), because its completely OP and theres literally no reason to use guns instead of it, and it also renders ammo useless

[Spoopy_Wraith]

Originally posted by Phoenix7786:

Eh I'll bite. The saber and bath are both choices the players can make regarding using them or not using them. Anyone who wants to experience a harder version of the game can simply choose to not utilize melee weapons and the bath.

Frankly most ppl might not even realize they can use the hot tub

[Banana Duck ඞ]

Why on earth did someone give my comment that i posted 2 days ago a jester award lol?... what i said there about the Spear is right

[Billy Blaze]

I would say, the only thing that comes close to "ruining the game" is that enemies drop currency.
In a survival horror (that isn't action based), the whole movement and system is built around avoiding combat.
But giving players rewards for killing enemies is really backwards logic for this genre.

It's still fun tho.

[Frullato di ratti]

Don't be surprised of the jester thing, this is what you decided to portray yourself by opening this thread, stacking hate prices on steam, good job brother, keep grinding

[Banana Duck ඞ]

Originally posted by Mia nonna sta per morire:

Don't be surprised of the jester thing, this is what you decided to portray yourself by opening this thread, stacking hate prices on steam, good job brother, keep grinding

What? i dont understand what you're saying, say it again but in English

[PIMPSwaG]

I own the Switch version.

Originally posted by Billy Blaze:

I would say, the only thing that comes close to "ruining the game" is that enemies drop currency.
In a survival horror (that isn't action based), the whole movement and system is built around avoiding combat.
But giving players rewards for killing enemies is really backwards logic for this genre.

It's still fun tho.

Bruh have you ever played Fatal Frame or Parasite Eve 2? Currency has been in survival horror games for over 30 years at this point.
I'm so sick and tired of this internet gaming community bs where clowns enforce survival horror rules that game devs like Mikami or Kamiya didn't even intend, where running away from everything like a wuss is considered the optimal way to play the game.

When I first played Resident Evil 2 as a kid, I remember just gunning everything down in police station up until I got to the sewers because ammo was plentiful lol. Only reason I started running away was because who the hell wants to be stuck in a small room against giant ass spiders?

The lack of currency & the store would ruin the balance of Alisa. Alisa is basically a modern version of Parasite Eve 2 which was another survival horror game that rewarded you with currency for killing. In both games the currency is limited and part of the fun was rationing the currency that you did get, on items & weapons that you thought were most important. Both games even expect you to beat the game at least 3 times to see & or unlock everything and it gets harder with successive playthroughs. You haven't beat Parasite Eve 2 for real unless you played Nightmare mode. Yes you kill everything. I don't see how that makes it any less horror when the battles are contained in small claustrophobic rooms and the enemies are really hard to kill in nightmare mode to the point where you are better off running away but Parasite Eve 2 actually penalizes you for running away whereas you can run like a chump to your hearts content in Alisa.

I am glad that the option to fight back is there and is what makes Alisa feel like such a breath of fresh air when compared to other modern survival horror hide & seek slop. Alisa is one of the few that feels like it were made back in the 1990s precisely because it doesn't use a self-enforced "Oh don't fight the enemies, that isn't the way internet nerds want you to play the game!" rule

Yeah go ahead and jester me. I'm sick and tired of gamer nerd cliques and their stupid rules that they act as if it were ironclad rules of game design, but I don't f'ng see Shinji Mikami or Hideki Kamiya coming up with these corny ass rules for what makes a good survival horror. It's just clown on the internet who don't even design games, they just played them and they think they know better than devs for some reason.

TLDR: The topic is correct that the melee weapons are over powered and they should have a RE Outbreak limiter where melee weapons eventually break. I disagree with another poster here who claimed that Alisa is a backwards game because you're rewarded for killing enemies. It's as if this guy has never played classic survival horrors before. There were plenty of ps1 survival horror games that rewarded you for killing, and others that rewarded your completion speed. Why does every game in a genre have to follow the same exact rule set just because the internet nerd police demands it?

I love Alisa's combat focus which did not lessen its horror, & I hope they make it more like Parasite Eve 2 with the sequel, in the sense that I'd like to see more extra hard modes and make currency even harder to conserve.

[Bronx]

Here's a tip!

Don't use melee.

[SilentCaay]

The hot tub is so far out of the way and takes so long to heal that it's kind of useless. If it's your first run and you want to clear out the glass enemies nearby a bit recklessly then you can save a couple medkits that way but it's not good for anything else, really.

Melee is a mixed bag. On the one hand, most enemies can be stun locked a bit too easily but, on the other hand, some enemies have such high health pools that it would be annoying if melee weren't as reliable. There are also some enemies that defy melee so, overall, I would just keep it as-is.

If you forced me to balance it, I would probably make melee less reliable as the game goes on but also make the later melee weapons stronger instead of everything being somewhat comparable to the saber.