Music

[DarkHoodness]

Firstly I want to say that I'm amazed and blown away that this is happening at all! What a pleasant surprise!

Crystal Caves was one of my first ever games, along with most of the old ID/Apogee DOS titles (like Commander Keen 4), a fun platformer which I've found myself replaying occasionally over the years, and it's great to see something which will breathe some new life into it and bring it back!

I was thinking a couple of months ago what a ground-up remake of these classics like Crystal Caves would be like if done well (such as Black Mesa or Oddworld: New 'n' Tasty), but this faithful to the original remaster is the next best thing. :) Overhauling the existing graphics while keeping its retro style, down to the PC Speaker sound effects, definitely adds to its charm, and I can tell a lot of love has gone into this. Steam Workshop implementation for user created levels will help increase its longevity too.

But yeah – Music!

As you can probably tell by now, I'm here from the LGR video, and while I agree with him (and some of the comments on his vid), it's nice to see that this remaster is getting any music at all, even as an afterthought or a bonus feature, since the original didn't have any.

I am thinking you're missing a trick here with it by using a NES style 8-bit soundtrack, though – I'm an old nostaligic. I associate music for classic Apogee/ID games from the DOS era with the Yamaha chip sound canvas which came on the old AdLib/Sound Blaster cards, similar to 1980s Yamaha keyboards/synthesizers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpLQxduGNZw

There's something nostalgic about that particular sound - The soundtracks to Duke Nukem II, Hocus Pocus, Jill of the Jungle or even God of Thunder (DOS) are “better” examples of AdLib DOS game music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWqConCdfAE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQvZWKN-51Y

Cosmo's Cosmic Adventure, for example, only had PC Speaker sound effects while offering AdLib music for people who had Sound Blaster cards – Which was a funny quirk even for back then, but it somehow worked. Perhaps something similar would work with this HD Remaster too, since you're keeping the classic PC Speaker style effects.

I understand that it's not high priority at all though – While also being a bunch of extra work. Just a little feedback. Keep up the amazing work! :)

[Elkondo]

Yeah, I agree that the sounds used just don't fit the game, but from what I heard, I just don't think the soundtrack fits it in general. I honestly think regular instrumental music would be better.
Playing the game so much with my own music in the background, I (and everyone who also did that) gave the game my own theme in a way. And after so many years, I don't think anything anyone came up with would feel like a fitting choice, not for me at least.

If I had to choose a genre that would work, for example, it'd be very slow country music, with fiddle or harmonica. But I can imagine that someone else could think hard rock would be a better fit and I couldn't really argue with that.

[Apogee1]

We are reading all the feedback. Honestly, we included the music because if we hadn't, people would be asking why we didn't. From everyone that is talking about it, it seems to be a mixed bag of 50/50 like vs dislike. But keep the feedback coming!

[codefenix]

Originally posted by Apogee1:

Honestly, we included the music because if we hadn't, people would be asking why we didn't.

If you re-read the original post, the point isn't about whether or not music should have been included. It's about the style of music that was chosen.

The OP is saying the NES chiptune style music is an odd choice for a game from the DOS era. Music done in the FM-synth style akin to AdLib or Soundblaster would be more fitting.

[StrikerTheHedgefox]

Like I said in another thread, I think something using native OPL3 music would be fitting. (Using an emulation library like Nuked OPL). There's a lot of amazing things that can be done with that chip. It would also be period-accurate if Crystal Caves got a VGA remaster back in the day.

Some great examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiVtyhdONkA
https://youtu.be/DEhbdVYSVMQ

[Plastik20xx]

Definitely should have used OPL music. Too many "retro" tracks try to sound like the NES.

[Solaron]

Agreed on OPL3, that would have been amazing to see!

[Commander Zal]

The music included with the game isn't offensive or unpleasant, but I have to agree with LGR and the people here that it really doesn't sound appropriate for a DOS title. I'd much prefer an Adlib OPL3 based soundtrack, personally.

Luckily there still seem to be people well versed in making music in that style online, Konakonaa is a good one, which the poster above already mentioned. Here's one of their original tracks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87LmpbeQVXA

[Patrick]

As I just posted in the other thread about this: add one vote for adding an Adlib / OPL (version of the) soundtrack. And I would be perfectly happy to pay for it as DLC; making these things costs time and money.

[Lt. Luftwaffles]

The music in Crystal Caves HD is pretty decent, the issue is that it is out of place in a DOS game. Keep the same tracks, but rerender them in Adlib/OPL if that's easy.

[Commander Zal]

Originally posted by Lt. Luftwaffles:

The music in Crystal Caves HD is pretty decent, the issue is that it is out of place in a DOS game. Keep the same tracks, but rerender them in Adlib/OPL if that's easy.

That's actually a great idea. If the new soundtrack was commissioned by the devs and the composer still has access to the MIDI files, it should be fairly easy to grab an appropriately DOS sounding VST plugin and swap out the instruments in whatever DAW it was composed in.

The Juce OPL VST looks like it would do the trick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU0CWQ66Z28

It's even free!

https://bsutherland.github.io/JuceOPLVSTi/

[Plastik20xx]

Juce is great! VOPM is also excellent

[Nubarique Joe]

Yep! Just bought the game and the first thing I noticed - there is now music! Good! Then the second thing I noticed - Oh, but it sounds like a NES chiptune... Why? For a retro remake of a PC game, NES chiptune music sounds almost like a blasphemy. (ok, I am overreacting, but it really a bit ruins that warm nostalgic feel for me).

Should be Adlib/SB (OPL2/3) FM-synth music or Roland MT-32 synth (I know, the latter was probably too high-end for a shareware Apogee game, more like Sierra territory at the time, but it's still period-appropriate for a PC game, unlike NES chiptunes, which are totally out of place).

[loinbread]

Originally posted by Apogee1:

We are reading all the feedback. Honestly, we included the music because if we hadn't, people would be asking why we didn't. From everyone that is talking about it, it seems to be a mixed bag of 50/50 like vs dislike. But keep the feedback coming!

You could get the composer to export the tracks using a different soundfont to solve what people are asking for here.

[eispfogel]

+1 for Midi! Get Bobby Prince to make the OST and everything is fine.
I quite like 8-Bit Music and some Gameboy tracks(Donkey Kong Country is perfect as well as Links Awekening and the Mega Man games) and it sounds ok here....but it doesn't sound "right".

Even Tracker Music would have been fine, but Midi is where it's at.

I hope it will and can be done ^^ In any case - thanks for the remaster!