Ippon or Ancient Nyotengu for ki damage?

[Ginebra]

Ancient Nyotengu hits super hard only if you manage to get all 3 to hit, while Ippon just very consistent but not much damage.

I need help I'm struggling here lol

[Mander]

Ippon Datara and mainly for 2 reasons imo (regardless of the ki damage they deal):
- Ippon Datara soul core has better passives and it is self reliant: with this I mean Ippon Datara gives you 31% more damage (on level 30) on all Yokay Abilities if an enemy is scorched (something that this very soul cores inflicts). Ippon Datara soul core is a team player. By comparision, Ancient Nyotengu passives are abysmal
- With Ippon Datara soul core is possible to one shot amrita horns or target weak points (it is the bane of enki, Namahage, Magatatsu, Yoki, yamamba and so on...) . Moreover, on human targets, it puts them on the ground, where you can deal a finishing blow, giving you a needed breathing room.

Also, Ippon Datara soul cores are a lot easier to farm ;)

[Toro con B de casa]

Imo, Ippon because of the stagger and it deals a lot of yokai ki bar damage -enemy yokai out of ki-

[Saffiron]

i even add that ippon datara can interrupt boss attacks (i am not sure if the nyotengu can be the same)

[JtDarth]

Publicado originalmente por Mander:

Ippon Datara and mainly for 2 reasons imo (regardless of the ki damage they deal):
- Ippon Datara soul core has better passives and it is self reliant: with this I mean Ippon Datara gives you 31% more damage (on level 30) on all Yokay Abilities if an enemy is scorched (something that this very soul cores inflicts). Ippon Datara soul core is a team player. By comparision, Ancient Nyotengu passives are abysmal
- With Ippon Datara soul core is possible to one shot amrita horns or target weak points (it is the bane of enki, Namahage, Magatatsu, Yoki, yamamba and so on...) . Moreover, on human targets, it puts them on the ground, where you can deal a finishing blow, giving you a needed breathing room.

Also, Ippon Datara soul cores are a lot easier to farm ;)

It also has some i-frames, and grab immunity for part of the animation.


Nyotengu is cooler, but Ippon is the more 'efficient' of the choices. Speaking honestly, there basically aren't any overall better cores than Ippon.
That said, for the sake of Ki damage while not being too expensive to use frequently: Kiryoki, Konaki-jiji, Namahage, Hellish hag, Yoki, and a few others do compete.
Ippon is a little anima-expensive and also has a fairly high attunement cost.


I personally don't use Ippon, as I feel it's a little too cheesy, between it's interrupt ability and it's other aspects. I usually run Kiryoki as a cheaper stamina breaker, or if I have the attunement available, I run mezuki. Mezuki shares the interrupt, but has a less cheesy animation and some weaknesses that make him feel less busted.

[Mander]

Publicado originalmente por JtDarth:

Publicado originalmente por Mander:

Ippon Datara and mainly for 2 reasons imo (regardless of the ki damage they deal):
- Ippon Datara soul core has better passives and it is self reliant: with this I mean Ippon Datara gives you 31% more damage (on level 30) on all Yokay Abilities if an enemy is scorched (something that this very soul cores inflicts). Ippon Datara soul core is a team player. By comparision, Ancient Nyotengu passives are abysmal
- With Ippon Datara soul core is possible to one shot amrita horns or target weak points (it is the bane of enki, Namahage, Magatatsu, Yoki, yamamba and so on...) . Moreover, on human targets, it puts them on the ground, where you can deal a finishing blow, giving you a needed breathing room.

Also, Ippon Datara soul cores are a lot easier to farm ;)

It also has some i-frames, and grab immunity for part of the animation.


Nyotengu is cooler, but Ippon is the more 'efficient' of the choices. Speaking honestly, there basically aren't any overall better cores than Ippon.
That said, for the sake of Ki damage while not being too expensive to use frequently: Kiryoki, Konaki-jiji, Namahage, Hellish hag, Yoki, and a few others do compete.
Ippon is a little anima-expensive and also has a fairly high attunement cost.


I personally don't use Ippon, as I feel it's a little too cheesy, between it's interrupt ability and it's other aspects. I usually run Kiryoki as a cheaper stamina breaker, or if I have the attunement available, I run mezuki. Mezuki shares the interrupt, but has a less cheesy animation and some weaknesses that make him feel less busted.

Nupeppo is another contender for "top tier" soul core, even if for very different reasons.
The other 2 best option for a ki buster imo are Kinki and Gozuki: while they both gives you grab immunity and actively track the enemy with their ability (and also deal more ki damage than Ippon, at least in the Gozuki’s case), their passives are not as good as Ippon’s (and/or are more expansive to slot).
Also, the Ippon short attack animation makes it a good "panic button" even in the lower strata of the Abyss, where controlling the flow of the fight makes the difference between life or death (or, with a little bit of practice, it can also become another dodging animation).
Gozuki charge is not as useful: try to charge Kashin while he casts fire wave and you’ll understand why XD

[JtDarth]

Publicado originalmente por Mander:

Publicado originalmente por JtDarth:

It also has some i-frames, and grab immunity for part of the animation.


Nyotengu is cooler, but Ippon is the more 'efficient' of the choices. Speaking honestly, there basically aren't any overall better cores than Ippon.
That said, for the sake of Ki damage while not being too expensive to use frequently: Kiryoki, Konaki-jiji, Namahage, Hellish hag, Yoki, and a few others do compete.
Ippon is a little anima-expensive and also has a fairly high attunement cost.


I personally don't use Ippon, as I feel it's a little too cheesy, between it's interrupt ability and it's other aspects. I usually run Kiryoki as a cheaper stamina breaker, or if I have the attunement available, I run mezuki. Mezuki shares the interrupt, but has a less cheesy animation and some weaknesses that make him feel less busted.

Nupeppo is another contender for "top tier" soul core, even if for very different reasons.
The other 2 best option for a ki buster imo are Kinki and Gozuki: while they both gives you grab immunity and actively track the enemy with their ability (and also deal more ki damage than Ippon, at least in the Gozuki’s case), their passives are not as good as Ippon’s (and/or are more expansive to slot).
Also, the Ippon short attack animation makes it a good "panic button" even in the lower strata of the Abyss, where controlling the flow of the fight makes the difference between life or death (or, with a little bit of practice, it can also become another dodging animation).
Gozuki charge is not as useful: try to charge Kashin while he casts fire wave and you’ll understand why XD

i was specifically looking for cores more comparable to Ippon in function, cost, and length. The problem with things like kinki or gozuki, even aside from attunement and anima costs, is the length of their animation. You spend so long in the animation that it is entirely possible for most enemies, especially in underworld/abyss, to just kill you while you are trapped in animation. It's the same reason Kasha gets less usable as you get deeper in the depths. It still hits hard and heals a lot, but the incap time on it will get you killed pretty often. Kinki also tends to run into the same issue as things like Onyudo where it's possible for a fair number of enemies to effectively dodge it.

Now that I think about it, isn't ubume pretty good for ki damage too?

[Mander]

Publicado originalmente por JtDarth:

Publicado originalmente por Mander:

Nupeppo is another contender for "top tier" soul core, even if for very different reasons.
The other 2 best option for a ki buster imo are Kinki and Gozuki: while they both gives you grab immunity and actively track the enemy with their ability (and also deal more ki damage than Ippon, at least in the Gozuki’s case), their passives are not as good as Ippon’s (and/or are more expansive to slot).
Also, the Ippon short attack animation makes it a good "panic button" even in the lower strata of the Abyss, where controlling the flow of the fight makes the difference between life or death (or, with a little bit of practice, it can also become another dodging animation).
Gozuki charge is not as useful: try to charge Kashin while he casts fire wave and you’ll understand why XD

i was specifically looking for cores more comparable to Ippon in function, cost, and length. The problem with things like kinki or gozuki, even aside from attunement and anima costs, is the length of their animation. You spend so long in the animation that it is entirely possible for most enemies, especially in underworld/abyss, to just kill you while you are trapped in animation. It's the same reason Kasha gets less usable as you get deeper in the depths. It still hits hard and heals a lot, but the incap time on it will get you killed pretty often. Kinki also tends to run into the same issue as things like Onyudo where it's possible for a fair number of enemies to effectively dodge it.

Now that I think about it, isn't ubume pretty good for ki damage too?

It may be, but the disadvantages are too heavy imo, considering the length of the animation and the fact that it leaves you grounded and without i-frames for the duration. Enemies with ranged attacks will make a mockery of it, and it also has questionable passives (+3.2% on strong attack ki damage on level 30…)
Best i-frames on soul cores are probably the ones on the Lightning gods of Yomi, but that is another beast completely, focused on elemental damage.

[JtDarth]

Publicado originalmente por Mander:

Publicado originalmente por JtDarth:

i was specifically looking for cores more comparable to Ippon in function, cost, and length. The problem with things like kinki or gozuki, even aside from attunement and anima costs, is the length of their animation. You spend so long in the animation that it is entirely possible for most enemies, especially in underworld/abyss, to just kill you while you are trapped in animation. It's the same reason Kasha gets less usable as you get deeper in the depths. It still hits hard and heals a lot, but the incap time on it will get you killed pretty often. Kinki also tends to run into the same issue as things like Onyudo where it's possible for a fair number of enemies to effectively dodge it.

Now that I think about it, isn't ubume pretty good for ki damage too?

It may be, but the disadvantages are too heavy imo, considering the length of the animation and the fact that it leaves you grounded and without i-frames for the duration. Enemies with ranged attacks will make a mockery of it, and it also has questionable passives (+3.2% on strong attack ki damage on level 30…)
Best i-frames on soul cores are probably the ones on the Lightning gods of Yomi, but that is another beast completely, focused on elemental damage.

That's the thing, the passives from soul cores are generally not a large part of my decision-making, outside of ones related to anima gen.
As for Ubume, most soul cores leave you dead in place on the floor for a bit. The thing with Ubume is that it has quite a bit of stagger ability and is full-aoe, while dealing appreciable ki-damage. It's not as braindead to use as some of the other options, but then, nothing really beats something like 'Yamata + ippon' or 'Kasha + ippon', 'Magats + ippon) or even 'Goz + ippon' for raw power in Yokai Abilities. I think most optimal would probably be to use aberrant soldier as third core for those.
With any of the alternatives I listed, you won't have a problem depriving yokai enemies of their ki.

Currently, running a water-focused build on character 3 and having Yasha, a Kiryoki with a 'saturated enemy' (the one that the base damage you deal to a saturated enemy creates anima) and a Oni-bi (in which case I can swap Kiryoki out for Mez with the same anima bonus) or Onmyudo (both the maelstrom oni-bi and onmyudo having 'elemental damage anima AA', depending on mood, builds an OBSCENE amount of anima. Combine with 'yokai ability damage all' on the onyudo and 'hp on yokai damage' on Yasha, and I have a rather sustainable build, especially running sharkyboi as my secondary GS (further health on yokai ability damage) and mizuchi as my main. Running Owatatsumi (accessories and weapons, as well as a female demon mask) and Suzuka set.
Currently rolling through underworld without a problem with this character. Haven't hit depths yet on them, but the lesser passives from soul cores don't make too much a difference here. It's technically quite sub-optimal because I just went with Suzuka set rather than grabbing something more specialized, and haven't bothered farming for starred stats. Still steamrolling underworld, even the occasional PITA boss like Yomi, Ren, or first samurai Otake. Not even running buffs, really. My onmyo usage comes down to Div talismans, water enchant talismans, a couple of lightningstop talismans, and GS talismans. Ninjutsu isn't being used at all. It's not even like I'm abusing fists or tonfa. Currently running with normal katana, hatchets, switchglaive, and against some specific enemies, Odachi.

People vastly overstate how necessary an optimized build is. That or I'm well ahead of the typical skill curve.





While the other options aren't as 'good' as something like Ippon, that doesn't leave them as unusable, or even 'bad'. There's fairly few soul cores that I would legitimately call bad. Most of the situational ones, the player can still create that situation to use them.

[Mander]

Publicado originalmente por JtDarth:

Publicado originalmente por Mander:

It may be, but the disadvantages are too heavy imo, considering the length of the animation and the fact that it leaves you grounded and without i-frames for the duration. Enemies with ranged attacks will make a mockery of it, and it also has questionable passives (+3.2% on strong attack ki damage on level 30…)
Best i-frames on soul cores are probably the ones on the Lightning gods of Yomi, but that is another beast completely, focused on elemental damage.

That's the thing, the passives from soul cores are generally not a large part of my decision-making, outside of ones related to anima gen.
As for Ubume, most soul cores leave you dead in place on the floor for a bit. The thing with Ubume is that it has quite a bit of stagger ability and is full-aoe, while dealing appreciable ki-damage. It's not as braindead to use as some of the other options, but then, nothing really beats something like 'Yamata + ippon' or 'Kasha + ippon', 'Magats + ippon) or even 'Goz + ippon' for raw power in Yokai Abilities. I think most optimal would probably be to use aberrant soldier as third core for those.
With any of the alternatives I listed, you won't have a problem depriving yokai enemies of their ki.

Currently, running a water-focused build on character 3 and having Yasha, a Kiryoki with a 'saturated enemy' (the one that the base damage you deal to a saturated enemy creates anima) and a Oni-bi (in which case I can swap Kiryoki out for Mez with the same anima bonus) or Onmyudo (both the maelstrom oni-bi and onmyudo having 'elemental damage anima AA', depending on mood, builds an OBSCENE amount of anima. Combine with 'yokai ability damage all' on the onyudo and 'hp on yokai damage' on Yasha, and I have a rather sustainable build, especially running sharkyboi as my secondary GS (further health on yokai ability damage) and mizuchi as my main. Running Owatatsumi (accessories and weapons, as well as a female demon mask) and Suzuka set.
Currently rolling through underworld without a problem with this character. Haven't hit depths yet on them, but the lesser passives from soul cores don't make too much a difference here. It's technically quite sub-optimal because I just went with Suzuka set rather than grabbing something more specialized, and haven't bothered farming for starred stats. Still steamrolling underworld, even the occasional PITA boss like Yomi, Ren, or first samurai Otake. Not even running buffs, really. My onmyo usage comes down to Div talismans, water enchant talismans, a couple of lightningstop talismans, and GS talismans. Ninjutsu isn't being used at all. It's not even like I'm abusing fists or tonfa. Currently running with normal katana, hatchets, switchglaive, and against some specific enemies, Odachi.

People vastly overstate how necessary an optimized build is. That or I'm well ahead of the typical skill curve.





While the other options aren't as 'good' as something like Ippon, that doesn't leave them as unusable, or even 'bad'. There's fairly few soul cores that I would legitimately call bad. Most of the situational ones, the player can still create that situation to use them.

A tad... aggressive? I wasn't judging your build, nor disparaging your choices: the tips I’ve offered to the OP are based on my experience with Nioh up until now, and the suggestions I’ve received myself from more experienced players.
Bottom line, what I’m using right now (and what I may endorse build wise) it’s what “sticked” after the test of time and strata. Do you like Ubume as your Ki blaster? You’re welcome to use it, if it is the core for you: it’s just not for me.

Back on topic, the soul cores I roll on my primary Guardian Spirit, are Ippon for ki damage, Otakemaru for confusion and elemental damage and Nupeppo for Health regen /damage buff when needed. So OP, regarding your choice on what soul cores you may find more useful for a certain role, you may also want to consider how soul cores synergise with each other, to further augment your overall damage, or to make your build more “round” (more supportive abilities).

[Rock]

Publicado originalmente por Mander:

Ippon Datara and mainly for 2 reasons imo (regardless of the ki damage they deal):
- Ippon Datara soul core has better passives and it is self reliant: with this I mean Ippon Datara gives you 31% more damage (on level 30) on all Yokay Abilities if an enemy is scorched (something that this very soul cores inflicts). Ippon Datara soul core is a team player. By comparision, Ancient Nyotengu passives are abysmal
- With Ippon Datara soul core is possible to one shot amrita horns or target weak points (it is the bane of enki, Namahage, Magatatsu, Yoki, yamamba and so on...) . Moreover, on human targets, it puts them on the ground, where you can deal a finishing blow, giving you a needed breathing room.

Also, Ippon Datara soul cores are a lot easier to farm ;)

Ippon has a disgusting synergy with Kasha's soul core which is also very popular soul core to sport.

[Mander]

Publicado originalmente por Rock:

Publicado originalmente por Mander:

Ippon Datara and mainly for 2 reasons imo (regardless of the ki damage they deal):
- Ippon Datara soul core has better passives and it is self reliant: with this I mean Ippon Datara gives you 31% more damage (on level 30) on all Yokay Abilities if an enemy is scorched (something that this very soul cores inflicts). Ippon Datara soul core is a team player. By comparision, Ancient Nyotengu passives are abysmal
- With Ippon Datara soul core is possible to one shot amrita horns or target weak points (it is the bane of enki, Namahage, Magatatsu, Yoki, yamamba and so on...) . Moreover, on human targets, it puts them on the ground, where you can deal a finishing blow, giving you a needed breathing room.

Also, Ippon Datara soul cores are a lot easier to farm ;)

Ippon has a disgusting synergy with Kasha's soul core which is also very popular soul core to sport.

That too, even if I never really got on the Kasha (band) wagon... for a couple of reasons: mainly, I prefer health regeneration from Amrita Absorption, which isn't soul core dependent and with an amulet of extraction is full fight long. ;)

[JtDarth]

Publicado originalmente por Mander:

Publicado originalmente por Rock:

Ippon has a disgusting synergy with Kasha's soul core which is also very popular soul core to sport.

That too, even if I never really got on the Kasha (band) wagon... for a couple of reasons: mainly, I prefer health regeneration from Amrita Absorption, which isn't soul core dependent and with an amulet of extraction is full fight long. ;)

It's also not anywhere near as rapid with most weapons, and requires solid investements into tempering, even with the toyotomi clan. When you have 7k plus HP and a single hit received does 3K damage or more, that 150-200 per glob from Amrita absorption looks a fair bit less attractive than an immediate 600-700 every time the Kasha wheel touches a hostile. Even with a weaker HP on yokai hit effect, like what I have at the moment, I still gain back 500+ hp per hit from Kiryoki, and 700+ per hit from Yasha, which is much quicker and less risky HP regain.
IT's not like Kasha's hp regain effect only applies to itself, either. It'll also apply onto any other damaging soul core you might use. Kasha is also one of the more high damage output soul cores in it's own right. The animation lock (which you can cancel via a burst counter if you really want to cut it short, iirc) and the way it 'pushes' enemies are the only real downsides to it. The enemy pushing only really becomes an annoyance in coop. But that's also why I don't like cooping with fist users. Way too many of those rely heavily on the moves that move enemies back, leaving their coop partners to have to whiff all over the place.

[Mander]

Publicado originalmente por JtDarth:

Publicado originalmente por Mander:

That too, even if I never really got on the Kasha (band) wagon... for a couple of reasons: mainly, I prefer health regeneration from Amrita Absorption, which isn't soul core dependent and with an amulet of extraction is full fight long. ;)

It's also not anywhere near as rapid with most weapons, and requires solid investements into tempering, even with the toyotomi clan. When you have 7k plus HP and a single hit received does 3K damage or more, that 150-200 per glob from Amrita absorption looks a fair bit less attractive than an immediate 600-700 every time the Kasha wheel touches a hostile. Even with a weaker HP on yokai hit effect, like what I have at the moment, I still gain back 500+ hp per hit from Kiryoki, and 700+ per hit from Yasha, which is much quicker and less risky HP regain.
IT's not like Kasha's hp regain effect only applies to itself, either. It'll also apply onto any other damaging soul core you might use. Kasha is also one of the more high damage output soul cores in it's own right. The animation lock (which you can cancel via a burst counter if you really want to cut it short, iirc) and the way it 'pushes' enemies are the only real downsides to it. The enemy pushing only really becomes an annoyance in coop. But that's also why I don't like cooping with fist users. Way too many of those rely heavily on the moves that move enemies back, leaving their coop partners to have to whiff all over the place.

Not really, at least in my experience :S.
One health regen on weapon + toyotomi clan + nupeppo soul core = all the regen I need, even in the Abyss...
But only because in the Abyss they kill anything with very few hits, and no soul core will save you there XD
Anyway, one tempering should be enough: personally, but it may depend on the build I'm using, I prefer utility over raw damage in my soul cores. Even Otakemaru I use for the confusion, more than damage: again though, it’s a matter of preferences anyway.

[Mander]

Publicado originalmente por Karhrandras:

Not having life drain on Cores is really bad. You absolutely want one core in the mix that has it. Kasha is okay because she has it already.

Again, at least in my experience, Nupeppo is more than enough to keep me alive with its passives (further augmented by extraction talisman and Toyotomi clan ofc) even in the Abyss... :S
I'm not saying Kasha is bad, mind you: it's just I don't feel the need for it, and I prefer to swap its soul core for another one.

[CazadorDeLobo]

I like the damage of Ippon Datara but prefer the reach of Mezuki. Different Anima bonuses from various sources, in addition to the Pleiades buff, makes it possible to use this in relatively rapid succession, making that 8 Anima cost not bite as badly. It still hits hard, albeit with slow startup time, but the wide arc and reach usually always catches AI that try to dodge out or to the side while also catching ads or multi-hitting a boss with multiple hitboxes.

I usually combine this with a ranged ability like Enki, for the sake of having a reliable recovery-canceling long-range attack for out-of-ki enemies or even just staggering an enemy. The auto-tracking and projectile speed are top tier. You can even dodge some attacks due to the startup(especially enemy grabs).

Nupeppo or one of the Oni-Bi go in my third slot, mainly for the stats but they are at least somewhat functional. Also, I can't get much better than these with the remaining attunement, as I'm sticking with the lightning bird starting spirit for the long haul(lightning build ftw).