Build streamlining: what am I doing wrong?

[Mander]

Hello gentleshiftlings,

I would like some pointers regarding the build I’m aiming to. Be warned: wall of text inbound xD.

[Mander]

Publicado originalmente por ToveriJuri:

Publicado originalmente por cybercybercybercyber4:

please do not use fists, your built literally becomes irrelevant if you do.
+0 fists allow you to outdamage any other +20 weapon, with less risks and elemental debuff on top of it. Any other weapon is totally fine though, including odachi.
so for your own sake of actually playing the game i wouldnt take fists into any consideration and find your path without them..

Odachi is incredibly more boring to use than the fists. What a worthless comment.

Depends: if you only use Odachi to spam swirling snow, I concur.
But, fortunately, Odachi offer some variations in playstyle which keep the fight interesting: as I wrote earlier, the Odachi is an helicopter in high stance, a shield in medium stance and a pogo stick in low stance.

[Peelsepuuppi]

Publicado originalmente por Mander:

Publicado originalmente por ToveriJuri:

Odachi is incredibly more boring to use than the fists. What a worthless comment.

Depends: if you only use Odachi to spam swirling snow, I concur.
But, fortunately, Odachi offer some variations in playstyle which keep the fight interesting: as I wrote earlier, the Odachi is an helicopter in high stance, a shield in medium stance and a pogo stick in low stance.

Every weapon can be set for different purposes on different stances. The fist can be a continuous flow between all stances though active skills. However that wasn't really my point. I think the attitude that fist is too strong so play something else is pretty silly. Wouldn't it matter more which moveset you find enjoyable to use?

[⭕TheSodaman]

Hi Mander,

The first thing that comes to mind in terms of a clash is the Izanagi set with the idea to use Corruption. I may be mistaken, but Corruption cancels out Purity and vice versa. So you might miss out on the Melee Damage vs. Purified bonus from the Izanagi set.

And then your accessories available on the higher difficulties, if damage boost is a desire, you may have to decide the non-temperable effects of Melee Damage vs. Purified or Melee Damage vs. Corruption (or Melee Damage vs. some other status effect), depending on the elements that you want to apply the most.

From where I think you might be headed, you might be carrying two equipment sets on you. On the smaller scale, maybe two accessories that have Melee Damage vs. [Corruption / non-Purity], maybe Corruption Accumulation too, for those times you want to Corrupt a human or even a yokai. You might not benefit from two of the Izanagi Grace bonuses for Purity Accumulation and Melee Damage vs. Purity, but don't have to look for as many pieces.

On the Cleansing Prayer side of Izanagi, if you're facing humans or need to generate another yokai pool, you could throw the Yokai Water Pot and purify that. A maximum ki pulse to trigger the Shiftling skill that restores anima, otherwise, maybe the Barrier talisman from onmyo just to get the other effects below. And if you're willing to use a soul core, the Tatari-something flying bird boss can shoot multiple projectiles to create pools that you can purify to get the Cleansing Prayer bonus. If desired, you could combine that with other benefits that take place on Purification (Uesugi clan for Protection, Itsumade soul core for Anima, Trident Vajra's Sword Helmet for Increased Attack, etc.) And you should be getting Increased Defense from Izanagi or Susanoo on purification, so you might be able to adjust your onmyo allocation if you decide to incorporate onmyo.

And then if you want to squeeze out a bit more defense from armor pieces to get a tiny bit more mitigation, remodeling them at the blacksmith for the stat requirements or weight depending on how close you are to spilling to the next Agility.

Choosing among: Standard, Standard with Refined, Standard with Reinforced, Refined, Refined with Reinforce, or just Reinforced. You can select on the Remodel menu with Xbox's Y / Playstation's Triangle / uncertain for keyboard. Be careful about Refined with light armor as this may require Skill and I think your target stat allocation won't have too much Skill.

My thoughts are scattered at the moment and I think I had other things to say, may revisit.

[Mander]

Publicado originalmente por ToveriJuri:

Publicado originalmente por Mander:

Depends: if you only use Odachi to spam swirling snow, I concur.
But, fortunately, Odachi offer some variations in playstyle which keep the fight interesting: as I wrote earlier, the Odachi is an helicopter in high stance, a shield in medium stance and a pogo stick in low stance.

Every weapon can be set for different purposes on different stances. The fist can be a continuous flow between all stances though active skills. However that wasn't really my point. I think the attitude that fist is too strong so play something else is pretty silly. Wouldn't it matter more which moveset you find enjoyable to use?

I couldn't agree more: after all, to continue playing a difficult game, you should make everything in your power to make it easier. Fist Weapons are just another means to that end for me. :)

[Mander]

Publicado originalmente por TheSodaman:

Hi Mander,

The first thing that comes to mind in terms of a clash is the Izanagi set with the idea to use Corruption. I may be mistaken, but Corruption cancels out Purity and vice versa. So you might miss out on the Melee Damage vs. Purified bonus from the Izanagi set.

And then your accessories available on the higher difficulties, if damage boost is a desire, you may have to decide the non-temperable effects of Melee Damage vs. Purified or Melee Damage vs. Corruption (or Melee Damage vs. some other status effect), depending on the elements that you want to apply the most.

From where I think you might be headed, you might be carrying two equipment sets on you. On the smaller scale, maybe two accessories that have Melee Damage vs. [Corruption / non-Purity], maybe Corruption Accumulation too, for those times you want to Corrupt a human or even a yokai. You might not benefit from two of the Izanagi Grace bonuses for Purity Accumulation and Melee Damage vs. Purity, but don't have to look for as many pieces.

On the Cleansing Prayer side of Izanagi, if you're facing humans or need to generate another yokai pool, you could throw the Yokai Water Pot and purify that. A maximum ki pulse to trigger the Shiftling skill that restores anima, otherwise, maybe the Barrier talisman from onmyo just to get the other effects below. And if you're willing to use a soul core, the Tatari-something flying bird boss can shoot multiple projectiles to create pools that you can purify to get the Cleansing Prayer bonus. If desired, you could combine that with other benefits that take place on Purification (Uesugi clan for Protection, Itsumade soul core for Anima, Trident Vajra's Sword Helmet for Increased Attack, etc.) And you should be getting Increased Defense from Izanagi or Susanoo on purification, so you might be able to adjust your onmyo allocation if you decide to incorporate onmyo.

And then if you want to squeeze out a bit more defense from armor pieces to get a tiny bit more mitigation, remodeling them at the blacksmith for the stat requirements or weight depending on how close you are to spilling to the next Agility.

Choosing among: Standard, Standard with Refined, Standard with Reinforced, Refined, Refined with Reinforce, or just Reinforced. You can select on the Remodel menu with Xbox's Y / Playstation's Triangle / uncertain for keyboard. Be careful about Refined with light armor as this may require Skill and I think your target stat allocation won't have too much Skill.

My thoughts are scattered at the moment and I think I had other things to say, may revisit.

You're quite right in Purity and Corruption cancelling each other: for this reason, the build I'm proposing is mutually exclusive regarding weapon of choice and precisely tied to the enemy I’m engaging. Is it a Yokai? Odachi with full purity build. Is it a human? Switch weapon and guardian spirit for an unoptimized corruption build, which should grant a decent damage regardless.
Fulguration for everyone to cause confusion.

The bottom-line conundrum I faced was: an unoptimized corruption build without Sarutahiko can work better than an optimized purity build against human? The answer is probably not, but I’m not sure.
But do I need an optimized corruption build, considering how… “easier” and fewer human enemies are in Nioh 2?

What I desire most from a secondary guardian spirit is Anima to fuel my core abilities, and Baku is king there. Therefore, I want to use Baku as my second guardian spirit: unfortunately, it clashes with Ho-Oh. How can I optimize my build further to take advantage from it?
I suppose I could go full corruption, but again my primary STAT is strength, and strength + purity has a very good synergy… better than Strength + Corruption.
I could disregard the problem and stick to purity to fists too… never swapping guardian spirit, which is probably the “sane” solution. And maybe I will do so.
OR
I could try to squeeze everything through the eye needle, and take advantage from Baku with corruption fists to be used only against humans. Just to add some variety.

What are your POV on this three faced problem?

I considered also the Tatarimokke + Itsumade synergy, but disregarded it because it requires further preparations to achieve max damage: by the time everything is set, I have usually burned at least half HP from a human enemy… and in a prolonged fight, neither soul cores are particularly useful to counter an enemy. Itsumade requires dark pools to function while Tatarimokke is slow and leaves you defenceless a little too much for my taste, even considering the trade-off of the Ki damage it inflicts. Gozuki is simply godly there, at least by comparison…

[orthostatic]

Publicado originalmente por Mander:

And farming Oni-B core is a pita, considering I would need to find the correct element...

Scrolls, yamabushi blessing, and shiftling skills. :) Eventually you'll happen upon a scroll of nioh/damned which has a few of 'em. Just put on the blessing and burn some incense.

[Mander]

Publicado originalmente por orthostatic:

Publicado originalmente por Mander:

And farming Oni-B core is a pita, considering I would need to find the correct element...

Scrolls, yamabushi blessing, and shiftling skills. :) Eventually you'll happen upon a scroll of nioh/damned which has a few of 'em. Just put on the blessing and burn some incense.

I'll try when I get there: I'm finishing DLCs on dream of the strong atm, and looking forward for demon difficulty XD

[Mander]

Meanwhile, the conundrum between corruption and purity-based fists continues to vex me.
Imbuing corruption without the grace of Sarutahiko means I lose the 30% damage vs corrupted enemies. Which isn’t little…
BUT, if I switch guardian spirit, I would have both Baku’s bonus damage vs corrupted enemies and further bonus damage from soul cores, meaning it would realistically be around 10% less damage instead of 30%.
At the same time, corruption on fists would guarantee a reserve of further Ki to siphon, meaning more time to deal optimal damage…
Bottom-line?

PRO:
-higher number of consecutive attacks thanks to ki absorption on imbued corruption
CONS.
- 10% less damage overall.

In my experience, even against human target, it seems that here CONS outweighs the PRO (DPS is always king), therefore my final build will probably be full purity with no swap between guardians spirits, but I would like to know your thoughts on the matter.

[saycheese]

The problem with Corruption is that it doesn't lend itself to weapon switching. You only gain Sentience Charge while the corrupted weapon is equipped and if your corrupted weapon is awakened, you'll end the awakened state prematurely by switching to your Purity weapon.

I used to run Purity and Corruption for a while but dropped Corruption for Water because of the above reason.

[saycheese]

I'd use Kasha over White Tiger. White Tiger is mediocre at best while Kasha is a top-tier core. You'll gain access to another element and the passives on Kasha are great. I use both Kasha and Yomi in my build and the two pair exceedingly well together as each core excels in areas where the other is weak at.

[saycheese]

In regards to stats, you don't need to necessarily go with Strength since you'll eventually get access to inheritances that can change the primary stat of your weapons. I use Claws and Tonfas and have both scaled with Courage as the primary stat.

I would recommend trying to get Courage to 150 if you can as Ultimate Courage is considered by many as the best Ultimate stat. Claws are ki intensive and Ultimate Courage is very beneficial for it.

Ultimate Courage is top-tier scroll effect and Ultimate Courage/Magic are pretty good. The rest of the Ultimates are meh.

[Mander]

Publicado originalmente por saycheese:

The problem with Corruption is that it doesn't lend itself to weapon switching. You only gain Sentience Charge while the corrupted weapon is equipped and if your corrupted weapon is awakened, you'll end the awakened state prematurely by switching to your Purity weapon.

I used to run Purity and Corruption for a while but dropped Corruption for Water because of the above reason.

Meaning that I'll be hardly able to achieve the awakening of a corrupted weapon if I stick to using fists only vs Human... fights are simply too short.
And full purity shall be. With Baku as 2nd guardian spirit. XD

I agree that white tiger soul core is sub par, but because it grants some more oomph on purity builds, I plan to use it regardless. Sure, it will be there, but the heavy lifting it will be on Gozuki’s and Lightning gods of Yomi’s shoulders.

Regarding courage, I’ll try to roll a scroll with ultimate courage on it: best of both worlds, wouldn’t you agree?

[Mander]

EDIT: changed OP again to reflect the suggestions offered.

[saycheese]

You can use Corruption just for the benefits that Corruption provides but it would be tricky getting the most out of awakened state if your plans are to weapon switch often.

Ideally, you should try and get access to two different elements besides Purity/Corruption to account for resistances. Right now, you only have Lightning and Purity which means you won't be able to cause Confusion on Lightning resistant/immune enemies.

Having access to all three elements (Water, Fire, Lightning) is nice as you can rotate elements to extend Confusion. Confusion is pretty strong as at worst, its a 50% damage bonus for a short period and at best, can lead to bosses being permanently Confused and destroyed in a short amount of time.

[Mander]

Publicado originalmente por saycheese:

You can use Corruption just for the benefits that Corruption provides but it would be tricky getting the most out of awakened state if your plans are to weapon switch often.

Ideally, you should try and get access to two different elements besides Purity/Corruption to account for resistances. Right now, you only have Lightning and Purity which means you won't be able to cause Confusion on Lightning resistant/immune enemies.

Having access to all three elements (Water, Fire, Lightning) is nice as you can rotate elements to extend Confusion. Confusion is pretty strong as at worst, its a 50% damage bonus for a short period and at best, can lead to bosses being permanently Confused and destroyed in a short amount of time.

I aim to: for the moment it's just lightnings because it synergizes further with the soul core from lightning gods of Yomi. It will remain my main element for sure (not only for the damage, but also for the effect on enemies when it procs), but I plan to add both fire and water magic on my wheels as soon as my capacity allows it, to manage those bosses who are resistant to fulguration (basically Otakemaru and almost every DLC boss).