human bosses are poorly designed

[steph_kage666]

between the infinite ki, the ability to dodge mid-combo or while getting hit and then instantly hitting back, blocking all the time and being pretty much unbreakable unless you are using a specific build, being able to dodge/attack when their ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ki bar is RED(not to mention the fact that active skills that normally drain your ki bar a lot doesn't drain their ki bar AT ALL!!!), unblock-able 1hk moves/combos and having a billion ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ health on higher difficulties makes them incredibly frustrating and simply unfun to fight. how the ♥♥♥♥ are you supposed to beat the dojo missions on dream of the demon?!

[SolusiRadikal]

When in doubt..Scampuss

that is all

[Kashra Fall]

引用自 stefan_kage666：

引用自 Kashra Fall：

It....it's always been designed that way. The term "Build." is literally in your hut O.o.

it seems you aren't getting my point which is that ANY build SHOULD be able to deal with human bosses and i shouldn't NEED to switch builds just to deal with a specific boss. i'm saying that it's bad game design.

And you're missing mine? What game have you played that has progressive difficulty where one build was end all be all? What did the correct elemental damage? What had the most CC, what had the most sustain, etc. The answer is you haven't found one and if you did, you variated between guns (Borderlands.) or skills (Diablo.) or relied on elixirs or something along the lines to even the playing field. Builds exist to make your life easier and yes, specific builds will work better on other things.

This game isn't DkS, it is a glorified diablo action RPG and diablo required builds to be successful in the harder difficulties and onwards.

You can also apparently break them sometimes =P.

https://clips.twitch.tv/NeighborlySuaveNewtTwitchRPG-6jgUNMsLvcu_YnCI

I wasn't complaining, I got my damageless title from that fight haha. Got severing spin 5 runs later, so all in all, a good farm. This was on Dream of the strong.

[Prince-Nyan]

All human bosses, with the exception of Saito Toshimitsu if you're light armour (B toughness) leave themselves wide open when they attack. All you got to do is mid/low stance dodge the start of their 3-6 hit combo and punish them with a few hits from behind. Your build dosn't matter more then your ability to not get hit, all humans have this opening, to me this sounds more like you had one method of fighting and it no longer works due to enemy damage scaling or your neglect to putting any points in ki caught up with you.

[Merik Lobo]

OP does actually have a point, even if I can't relate to the level of difficulties they are experiencing. Only dojo mission in DotD I found unreasonable was Hanzo in "The One Who Lives in the Shadows". That's the Ninjutsu mastery mission. He's easy peasy in the spear mastery mission, but in this one he not only lays out constant hazards on the field, but his HP is ridiculously spongy for seemingly no reason.

In Dream of the Samurai the only human enemy I found unreasonable was Saito Toshimitsu, and that's mainly because they placed that mission too early on. Progressing through DotW, however, I've noticed a massive increase in enemy sponginess. Maybe its just that 3-player expeditions are too unbalanced in this regard, but even Imagawa Yoshimoto took ungodly long to take down. Grapples and finishing blows hit him like paper cuts.

Speaking of human enemies that are way too unbalanced, here's a fun one a lot of people probably don't know about. In the beta for Nioh 2 there was a duel against Maeda Toshiie that was completely absent from the game on release. It was in the second region and beating it gave you his guardian spirit. In the finished game, not only is the duel in a later region, but the map they used for the duel was completely different. You also get his guardian spirit in a completely different manner in the finished game.

Here's the important bit, though: in the beta he had an entirely different set of tricks. chief among them was a tendency to buff his animation speed. Not to mention his attack power so far outclassed your defense and hp pools that half of his attacks could straight out kill you. With his speed buffed some of these moves were nigh unavoidable. to beat him I had to grind out onmyo and ninjutsu proficiency on him with repeated deaths just to refill my stock for a couple hours just to give myself a chance. In the end it took blinding him and a whole lot of luck. I have to guess the sheer difficulty of that fight is why he seems to have been completely reworked in the final game.

[Sir_Knight_Arthorias]

practice makes perfect, learn their movesets. learn how to keep their ki at 0 as you decimate their health.
As long as you don't grapple or final blow you can keep them in a constant state of no ki.

[Banana]

Summons 1-3 Scumpuss, the steambun cat, they are your best friend for fighting human boss.

[ELES]

They're a lot worse in the Depths of the underworld; and it's not practical to prepare a counter for them because the bosses in Depths are random. Some human bosses are fine like Magoichi, Obsidian Samurai, or Toshiee, but then there's others like Saito (the mage odachi guy, not the yokai) or Ren Hayabusa - who have super-fast one-shot moves that's impossible to react to unless they are slowed or electrified; when I encounter those two in Depths floor 11+, I just give up and reroll the whole strata. They also do so much blocking and dodging that the fights always take forever because they have passive health regen in Depths.

[IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII]

引用自 Misfit：

引用自 strangerism：

I have found that playing aggressive pays a lot against human enemies and dojo masters

thats the whole trick, same as nioh 1, every human enemy is a joke if you realize what parts of your moveset work.

odachi for example has swirling snow, no human enemy can do anything, if they block their ki is gone, if not they lose health and get staggered and you constantly move forward with it, so they cant backpedal.
just force them to block, as long as you have the initiative they are helpless.
its counter-intuitive first if you come from dark souls, where you have to wait for an opening. just find a fast move in your moveset with high ki damage.

stuns also are made for human enemies, every weapon has moves that hardcounter human enemies and stun them (unlike yokai, where those move have different effects), like the chain pull from kusarigama. not as braindead as odachi, but still no chance for humans to attack you.

This is good advice if you're playing on Dream of the Samurai, not Dream of the Wise and higher.

[Midegola]

引用自 Kashra Fall：

引用自 cardinal持27w收BUFF高端CS饰：

say that again on dream of the nioh, especially when you make it to the depths. Humans are full on cancer

Well, if you know you're going to go up against a human, then know they will block a alot. What does this mean? Spec for break/ki damage/active skill breaks. Watch and marvel at their defenses dwindling before your eyes.

As for OP's complaint about them dodging mid combo? That is because they do a cut away, or flinch block, just like you can. They take a speciic set amount of hits and then dodge. This is why you vary your combos and strings so that doesn't happen.

in the depths you have no clue what you are about to fight, my build is for ki damage and humans just block legit everything. i bring lifeseal with me just in case but that doesnt seem to matter much either

[Powercrank]

they're not "poorly designed", as much as the rules of each fight are not made clear to the player.
which i guess you could argue is a form of poor design as well.
but, once you understand the mechanics of each boss they do in fact make sense and have reasonable counter-strategies.

[Brahm The seige Beast]

what about constantly popping spirit powers or S form through out combat and its not based on damage tiers like good bosses have where when you beat them down a bit they rage for a moment. it seems oni bosses are the only ones "normally" balanced more. i say normally because some of the bosses like the "tate eboshi"? if i spelled it right are just map hopping spammers

[Meat Man (Alfons)]

I never had that much fun with most of the human bosses in this game. They always have 3 cheeky grabs that take 90% of your health, instant attacks, occasional massive AoE for some reason and seemingly random parries. Yokai bosses are much more fun to play against. It's fun to bully guard of human enemies though