Cheap difficulty?

[Luna Wildpawe]

Overall I liked the game but feel like some of the enemy encounters (specifically in the second half of the game) are not well balanced at all. As a long time gamer I'm no stranger to being locked in an arena and have tons of enemies thrown at you at once. It's a cheap but effective tactic that many games have done. However in most games that isn't an issue because the enemies don't require specific weapons to kill and/or the player is given enough of an area to move around in.

The problem is the basis of the combat in this game is each enemies require specific weapons/tactics to defeat them. Sure there are some weapons/abilities that overlap or special limited use ones that are effective against everything, but that doesn't make it any better. It can be hard to even see the enemies when they are all bunched up and doing their attacks. It became impossible to not take loads of damage because while trying to deal with one or two enemy types the rest are effectively invulnerable and free to gang up on you.

That wouldn't be as much of an issue if they at least gave you enough freedom to move around and crowd control. However the majority of arenas (as well of the levels themselves) are simply too claustrophobic for dealing with hordes of enemies that all require specific tactics. The worst of these was while on the roofs where I died multiple times because there was simply nowhere to go and not helped by the dang scooter bros bumping me off the roof. It was incredibly frustrating and really soured my experience up to then.

Of course you're probably thinking "well just use the glove/BFG then" which is great idea...if they are available to use. The BFG (or whatever it's called, it was late/early and i was exhausted) doesn't show up until near the very end, and even then the ammo was so rare that I barely got to use it. As for the glove it has a similar issue where it takes so long to charge up that you'll only get one (maybe two) uses per level. So if it's not already charged, or close enough to it, or you accidentally used it already then you are pretty much SOL. This is very likely on your first run with no foreknowledge of what's ahead. Also because there are often more than one big encounter per level, even if you did save it then you'll just get swarmed on the next one.

Despite all that I'm not saying the game is impossible or anything (I beat it on normal) just that it detracts from an otherwise fun game clearly made by people who cared. I don't regret buying the game and hope that they can address these issues in future updates.

Wondering if anyone else feels the same way or if it's just me lol

[greentiger]

the bottom area of the slope in level 12 is just utter bull&&&&, there's like 5+ waves (I cannot get past the two arnold grey clones and the speedo guy) of increasingly strong enemies, in a small arena area that is blocked off, there's no where to belt out of the enemies' way, there's precious little health, the fab glove is only useful once. I'm glad other people can beat it, but it's cheap IMO.

The game has been fun up until the ski slope.

[TinyPixxels]

Originally posted by greentiger:

the bottom area of the slope in level 12 is just utter bull&&&&, there's like 5+ waves (I cannot get past the two arnold grey clones and the speedo guy) of increasingly strong enemies, in a small arena area that is blocked off, there's no where to belt out of the enemies' way, there's precious little health, the fab glove is only useful once. I'm glad other people can beat it, but it's cheap IMO.

The game has been fun up until the ski slope.

Gotcha, I'll make sure I note that down as a pain point. What difficulty are you playing on? =]

[TinyPixxels]

Originally posted by Ricardo:

Besides that, I think the game is amazing and I am enjoying it very much.

Thanks so much! I like to make sure we're in touch with players so we know what we can be making better! =] That's some GREAT feedback, thank you! We'll definitely make some notes and have a look!

[HerrKomm]

Honestly I would just disagree with the assessment that the difficulty is cheap.

The reason being I have already completed the entire game on every single difficulty and unlocked every single achievement (in just 23 hours), and compared to other fps games on the highest difficulty that I have also completed (like the doom games let's say or duke nukem games) it's quite a breeze.

Frankly I wouldn't mind at all if they added a 5th much harder difficulty as it would give me more to explore in the game. If the higher difficulties are too hard for you, it is advised you play on the lower difficulty settings, that's what they are for.

[greentiger]

Originally posted by TinyPixxels:

Originally posted by greentiger:

the bottom area of the slope in level 12 is just utter bull&&&&, there's like 5+ waves (I cannot get past the two arnold grey clones and the speedo guy) of increasingly strong enemies, in a small arena area that is blocked off, there's no where to belt out of the enemies' way, there's precious little health, the fab glove is only useful once. I'm glad other people can beat it, but it's cheap IMO.

The game has been fun up until the ski slope.

Gotcha, I'll make sure I note that down as a pain point. What difficulty are you playing on? =]

Im on normal difficulty. I have been going through the game just fine. And I can even get to the bottom of the slope just fine. But for whatever reason that just comes across as some kind of endurance mode.

I dont know how I'd adjust it. On one hand the difficulty is pretty good but on the other many of the enemies are just unconventional enough to throw people for a curve ball. Maybe add a full health power up near the ski lodge at the start of the wave? Maybe add a checkpoint before the start of the waves. Part of the frustration is not knowing how many waves appear.

Overall I want you to know the game is great fun, I think the light hearted tone of the game throws me off of how serious to take the combat. I love the mix of 2D and 3D and I wish you success, just for whatever reason this part stops me. Like I can get Doom Eternal on Ultraviolence but I can't get FPS on Normal. Also thank you for listening to feedback. 🙂

[Ricardo]

Originally posted by HerrKomm:

Honestly I would just disagree with the assessment that the difficulty is cheap.

The reason being I have already completed the entire game on every single difficulty and unlocked every single achievement (in just 23 hours), and compared to other fps games on the highest difficulty that I have also completed (like the doom games let's say or duke nukem games) it's quite a breeze.

Frankly I wouldn't mind at all if they added a 5th much harder difficulty as it would give me more to explore in the game. If the higher difficulties are too hard for you, it is advised you play on the lower difficulty settings, that's what they are for.

I was expecting this post from the beginning. Now the game is too easy, we need a fifth difficulty level. Ok.

[Luna Wildpawe]

Originally posted by greentiger:

the bottom area of the slope in level 12 is just utter bull&&&&, there's like 5+ waves (I cannot get past the two arnold grey clones and the speedo guy) of increasingly strong enemies, in a small arena area that is blocked off, there's no where to belt out of the enemies' way, there's precious little health, the fab glove is only useful once. I'm glad other people can beat it, but it's cheap IMO.

The game has been fun up until the ski slope.

Yeah it didn't give me too much trouble (got it on like my second attempt) but that was definitely another arena waaaaay too small for the number of enemies spawned at once. By that point I knew how cheap the game was gonna be so I had no problem with cheesing the enemies to win lol

[HerrKomm]

Originally posted by Ricardo:

Originally posted by HerrKomm:

Honestly I would just disagree with the assessment that the difficulty is cheap.

The reason being I have already completed the entire game on every single difficulty and unlocked every single achievement (in just 23 hours), and compared to other fps games on the highest difficulty that I have also completed (like the doom games let's say or duke nukem games) it's quite a breeze.

Frankly I wouldn't mind at all if they added a 5th much harder difficulty as it would give me more to explore in the game. If the higher difficulties are too hard for you, it is advised you play on the lower difficulty settings, that's what they are for.

I was expecting this post from the beginning. Now the game is too easy, we need a fifth difficulty level. Ok.

I don't know what to tell you, I have unlocked every achievement in the game, and it took me less than 24 hours to unlock them all.

And I have likewise completed much harder fps games on the hardest difficulty. So yes adding a new even harder difficulty would just add something more for me to explore, just because the game is too hard for some doesn't mean it's too hard for everyone.

[David_Sh]

Originally posted by HerrKomm:

And I have likewise completed much harder fps games on the hardest difficulty. So yes adding a new even harder difficulty would just add something more for me to explore, just because the game is too hard for some doesn't mean it's too hard for everyone.

Yeah, compared to something like Blood I felt this was the right amount of challenging on the highest possible difficulty, which I don't usually find to be the case. In most other retro fps games I have to pick the difficulty right below max for a challenge that is tough but fair.

Even playing levels without dying (which I had to do for the 100% due to certain issues) wasn't all that difficult, with me managing to beat both levels that required that of me on the first try.

[TheSHEEEP]

I have to agree with the sentiments about the difficulty just being too cheap in the second half of the game.

There are way too many situations in which you'll just die without a fault of your own.
You might have wasted your Q ability simply because you didn't know that there'd be an EVEN more difficult encounter up ahead (or how many encounters are upcoming to begin with).
It is impossible to know this without having advanced further before - that's the very definition of cheap.

Another problem are enemies that will just hit you wherever you are.
The karens are a glaring issue of this - they just shoot straight through walls, which makes zero sense.
Then there are the fire guys, which can also shoot through walls with half their attacks.
The biggest problem are the techno girls, though. Sure, you can interrupt their attacks, but trying to do so will very likely just get you killed as you need to get VERY close and all the other mobs surrounding them (many of which can also just shoot through walls or make terrain unpassable without taking damage).

Add to that the level design that is VERY narrow in a lot of cases giving you no possibility at all to dodge stuff - walls don't do ♥♥♥♥ as explained earlier as enemies just hit you through them.
All in all, I very much enjoyed the first 11 levels, but after that it just got too unfair for my taste.

I don't have an issue with challenging games (wen't through Doom 2016 & Eternal on Nightmare) - but it has to be fair to be enjoyable, when I fail it has to be clear that it was my fault (and not "Ah, there was a Karen behind this wall that I didn't know about")
A lot of the second half of this game is unfortunately not fair at all, requiring either knowledge of the levels ahead of time to succeed (aka know when to use the glove) or just plain luck.

At the very least, enemies (maybe except the 2loud girls) should stop shooting straight through walls. And some encounters in tight spaces should have fewer enemies with AoE attacks.

[TinyPixxels]

Hey folks! We've just put out an update that makes some space and design changes to Missions 10 - 12, I'd love to hear what you make of them if you were struggling there in particular!
https://steamcommunity.com/games/1319460/partnerevents/preview/3344507206094808043

[greentiger]

Originally posted by TinyPixxels:

Hey folks! We've just put out an update that makes some space and design changes to Missions 10 - 12, I'd love to hear what you make of them if you were struggling there in particular!
https://steamcommunity.com/games/1319460/partnerevents/preview/3344507206094808043

I've been replaying the game now that I beat it and been practicing stunning higher tier enemies more, and just made it to level 9. Looking forward to the adjustments you've made.

[beanman101283]

Just wanted to follow up from my earlier post. I was able to finish the game tonight, though I did turn it down to Easy to do so. It was still nicely challenging for me, and I had a great time. Thanks for all your updates!