Rating system backwards?

[kettlecorrosive]

I think you should get a better score the fewer items you use. The whole point of having less common but more efficient variants (large battery, large medicine, etc.) is that the player needs less of them to achieve the same results, and their rarity implies a motivation to seek them out. I'd like to see the grading system reward players for being resourceful (using valuable items when needed), but penalize them for using resources too liberally/wasting items. Like using a large battery when their meter is over 40%. Of course there's a grey area for certain items, like adrenaline. It's really impossible to guage when it's "appropriate," so this suggestion applies more to batteries and medicine. Also, this wouldn't apply to booster items, as those have long-term effects with more fluid application. It's never not appropriate to use them.

What do you think?

[CptnSpandex]

A hard no lol, its a scary game not an elite paradise, they could do that if they want their player base to dwindle to 100 players.

[Ashyne]

I only pick up bottles and bricks. I don't need and don't pick up lockpicks, medicines, antidotes, batteries, etc. I don't want to be penalized for using lots of bottles and bricks.

[Pckables]

I feel like the current system is healthier for the game.

If someone really wants to go for a high rating, knowing that using a lot of items can improve their rating, even offset some negatives, is better than having your score be penalized for using items, with few ways to raise it back.

Games should give players incentives to do things and use items meant to be used, not punish them for it.
Unfortunately, punishing players for using items just causes that, players will stop using items at all, even if they should be using them. Suddenly, the game fails to have a reason to have items at all, when neither the game nor the players want them used.
It'll also breed a mindset of "Make a mistake, restart the mission", since there will be few ways to raise the score, and many ways to lessen it.

The devs added missions with variators for this purpose. If you want less item usage, play a mission that has less/no items on it.

[kettlecorrosive]

Originally posted by Ashyne:

I only pick up bottles and bricks. I don't need and don't pick up lockpicks, medicines, antidotes, batteries, etc. I don't want to be penalized for using lots of bottles and bricks.

I forgot to address throwables completely, and it's probably because I can't really think of reasonable way to make this apply for them. Even "missing" with throwables has utility, so there's really nothing I can think of. And I don't like the idea of a use cap, like "you can use this many before we deduct points," because use cases are too varied for that to make sense.

Really this idea only pertains to health and batteries. The other items are kinda impossible to definitively "waste" like that.

[kettlecorrosive]

Originally posted by Pckables:

[...]

Like I said in the other reply, this only seems appropriate for health pickups and batteries. They're the only items that you can obviously use in a manner decisively more efficient than another. I think it makes a bit more sense in this context. It'd incentivize always being on the lookout for low-frequency items and actively going out of your way to open locked containers/the secret room regardless of difficulty level.

I guess this *could* work with the rig recharger. Big maybe on that tho. Like.. penalty for using it when the rig is almost charged already? Ehh.. idk about that one.

[Sardonicus]

Originally posted by kettlecorrosive:

Originally posted by Pckables:

[...]

Like I said in the other reply, this only seems appropriate for health pickups and batteries. They're the only items that you can obviously use in a manner decisively more efficient than another. I think it makes a bit more sense in this context. It'd incentivize always being on the lookout for low-frequency items and actively going out of your way to open locked containers/the secret room regardless of difficulty level.

I guess this *could* work with the rig recharger. Big maybe on that tho. Like.. penalty for using it when the rig is almost charged already? Ehh.. idk about that one.

What you're saying about health makes no logical sense since the game already punishes you for taking damage. You only need health if you took damage, so that's just double punishing a player for the exact same thing. There's no reason to punish a player twice for taking damage they were already punished enough, and possibly more in the future if health is scarce since they're likely going to get one shot downed by bigger enemies and lose even more of their score to that.

Also how many batteries that are used by a player is completely dependent on both their play style, and what amps, rigs, and prescriptions they are using, and how much darkness is in a map. If you're punishing battery use you might as well just automatically punish players that aren't a high enough level to unlock those bonuses like the "having battery life last longer" prescription, or automatically punishing people new to the game for not understanding the layout of the maze-like maps enough that they wander around to get their bearings so are obviously going to use night vision more. Something that says nothing about a players skill, just the amount of time they've familiarized themselves to each specific map. It also punishes players who prefer a stealthy playstyle over the people who prefer a more run from one point to the other in a speedrun fashion as being the only proper way to play, since stealth players tend to spend more time crouching around in the dark. The whole stealth thing seems way more in-line with the Outlast franchise than the speedrun strat that a lot of players start doing once they've played the same map too many times, so you're basically punishing people for playing the game in a more proper fashion than cheesing things because they're familiar with how dumb the ai can be at times.

Any angel you try to present this from everything you're saying just sounds like a terrible idea that will make the game less fun overall, and has hints of this idea that you want players to play how you want them to, instead of letting them have a wide variety of playstyles.

[kettlecorrosive]

Originally posted by Sardonicus:

[...]

most of these are just compounding issues. the ai is bad, so stealth is easy. prescriptions are balanced irresponsibly and prone to overreach, so the difficulty curve suffers. I don't like those things, either. I just wanted to think of some way to introduce a meta into item usage. To really give more valuable items an edge to make players seek them out instead of just using whatever's on hand. "If I heal now my score will suffer, but if I go out of my way to find a large medicine, I'll get a negligible bonus." "If I find the secret room and get the battery booster, I won't have to worry about batteries for the rest of the level and I'll get a slightly-less negligible bonus."

That kind of thing. I just think it's kinda silly/frustrating that there *is* technically a usage meta, but the game doesn't acknowledge it explicitly. It actually punishes you for intuiting that, because if you use items more sparingly you get a lower score. I want my inner survival-horror player to be rewarded for being frugal.

I was going to make a canon/lore excuse, that this metric would make sense, but then again so would time taken, and I didn't suggest being judged based on that.
probably Because I don't really care for the idea lol .-. that could be a variator ig

[ShockedHearts]

you are rewarded for using everything you can.

beat the crap out of enemies, use batteries, use medicine, destroy traps etc etc.

the more you accomplish and do the more effective of a reagent you are, therefore you are scored better.

your OVERALL score for the trial is based on teamwork so you would want to share resources and ensure success for one another via setting traps communicating, using bricks and bottles as weapons or distractions to aid one another etc etc.

if everyone uses everything efficiently then you are a good team.

now if you take everything for yourself then well YOU might get an A+ but others might not. thats called bad teamwork which lowers the overall score which is what matters for rewards and XP

[oSxNarwhal]

They should just overhaul the whole ranking system all together. It should be based on completing a trial or not completing a trial. The points thing is just odd, and the game doesn't even tell you how to do it, you have to figure out by looking on the internet

[ShockedHearts]

Originally posted by oSxNarwhal:

They should just overhaul the whole ranking system all together. It should be based on completing a trial or not completing a trial. The points thing is just odd, and the game doesn't even tell you how to do it, you have to figure out by looking on the internet

you throw bricks you get higher xp gains and score from "throwables used" and "enemies hit" etc.

use 5x batteries and get xp from it. maybe use 2 in your next trial and get less xp.

its common sense.

do thing get XP. more thing you do good higher score. more thing you do bad. lower score.

[Argent]

Only thing I can think of why Murkoff encourage us to do those things is that they can study if we are resourceful and also to check and study the gadgets we are using lorewise

[ShockedHearts]

Originally posted by JHO:

Only thing I can think of why Murkoff encourage us to do those things is that they can study if we are resourceful and also to check and study the gadgets we are using lorewise

we are being trained to complete objectives efficiently. the better we listen the more we are trained the more we are trained the closer we are to being reborn.

[秋]

Originally posted by Ashyne:

I only pick up bottles and bricks. I don't need and don't pick up lockpicks, medicines, antidotes, batteries, etc. I don't want to be penalized for using lots of bottles and bricks.

This.
I only use bottles and bricks, simply to bully the npcs.

[Ashyne]

Originally posted by NRG:

Originally posted by Ashyne:

I only pick up bottles and bricks. I don't need and don't pick up lockpicks, medicines, antidotes, batteries, etc. I don't want to be penalized for using lots of bottles and bricks.

This.
I only use bottles and bricks, simply to bully the npcs.

Bottles, Bricks and Rig Rechargers are the only things worth holding in inventory. Everything else is useless, including Master Key and Secret Room boosters.

Bottles to distract and stumble enemies, destroy traps.

Bricks to stun enemies, destroy traps and break locked containers. And you get 3 uses from each brick.

For Rig, I use Stun or Blind depending on Trial.

Stun Rig recharges Battery and Stamina, eliminating need for picking up batteries or adrenaline.

Blind Rig also grants speed boost, negating need for adrenaline.

If you use Bottles and Bricks to stumble/stun enemies, you don't get hit or gassed, so you don't need Medicines or Antidotes.

If you destroy traps with Bottles and Bricks, you don't take damage from Electric traps or lose sanity from Psychosis mines, so you also don't need Medicines or Antidotes.

If you disarm trapped doors, you have a ready source of batteries lying around for instant usage without needing to pick them up.

With bricks, you can break locked containers, therefore, no need for lockpicks either.

So as I said, Bottles and Bricks are the only things (along with Rig Recharger) any player needs.

Everything else is redundant and a waste of inventory space.