What's the problem with there being diversity???

[Shannymuffin]

Honestly just a bit of a question for the community, but why the hell are people so pressed that this game has a diverse cast of characters? It's not bad that a game isn't white guy number 97,000. especially since it's in the world of darkness universe, where kindred, shapeshifters, fairies, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ wizards, and all sorts of other splats exist. What's so weird about people looking a little different? How does their mere existence make this game "woke"? seriously, I want to know because everything I've seen just seems like sad racism and sexism with the argument boiling down to "It's not good because I can't beat people up as a muscle bound ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and still be praised as the sole hero of this game"

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by MTL5:

What is that supposed to mean? What is being "forced in the player's face" in Swansong? It's an absolutely bizarre comment that doesn't line up with the contents of Swansong, but this is one of the most influential figures in the Bloodlines fanbase saying it. He's not the only person who thinks that Swansong is "forcing" "politics and diversity" in the player's face.

This is just me speculating, but if I had to guess, I would probably say they are referring to the following elements:


The Prince is a 'girl boss' character who in addition to having the stereotypical 'lesbian haircut', was also put on the throne because the Primogen thought she would be easy to manipulate.

Halsey, a character who has a prominent role in the story, suffers from a speech impediment (lisp) which quickly grows irritating after the first couple of scenes she's in, and then you have to keep suffering through it for the rest of the game.

One of the Toreador characters in the game has vitiligo, because apparently there's some super model that we've never heard of who also has the same condition.

The only playable male character in the game is depicted as a submissive 'yes man' who blindly follows orders of whoever is currently sitting on the throne, while his more rebellious childe is depicted as some kind of unbearable, self entitled ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. And of course, they both happen to be rich, white men.

Emem is quite literally a 'strong, black female' by way of her being the only one of the three playable characters who exhibits any kind of supernatural strength during the course of the game.


These are just examples which I am able to remember off the top of my head. I'm sure there are plenty others that I have either overlooked, or simply can't remember right now.

[MTL5]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

The Prince is a 'girl boss' character who in addition to having the stereotypical 'lesbian haircut', was also put on the throne because the Primogen thought she would be easy to manipulate.

Almost every character in the game is in their position because someone thought they would be easy to manipulate. Her hairstyle is a variant of the pompadour. The idea that Hazel Iversen is a "girl boss" is ludicrious. She is a violent, paranoid sociopath who tried to murder a (vampire) child.

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Halsey, a character who has a prominent role in the story, suffers from a speech impediment (lisp) which quickly grows irritating after the first couple of scenes she's in, and then you have to keep suffering through it for the rest of the game.

So now children lisping is "diversity" and "in your face".

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

One of the Toreador characters in the game has vitiligo, because apparently there's some super model that we've never heard of who also has the same condition.

Vitiligo affects somewhere between 1/100 or 1/50 people. It is a very, very common medical condition. I'm not sure where some people got the idea that it's rare.

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

The only playable male character in the game is depicted as a submissive 'yes man' who blindly follows orders of whoever is currently sitting on the throne, while his more rebellious childe is depicted as some kind of unbearable, self entitled ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. And of course, they both happen to be rich, white men.

This is a ridiculous criticism. He's not interested in leadership. That isn't the same thing as being a "yes man".

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Emem is quite literally a 'strong, black female' by way of her being the only one of the three playable characters who exhibits any kind of supernatural strength during the course of the game.

Are we forgetting Halsey massacring people? Also, Emem is based on a real person. You can tell the developers are French because the person she's based on is a bisexual black civil rights figurehead and French national hero. Which of course is neither "SJW" nor "woke".
What this boils down to, and I understanding that you're hypothesizing in this context, is that if they made a VtM game with no male characters in it, it would be automatically "woke". That is an insane position. Black people? "Woke". Children who lisp? "Woke". Xu Feng being a successful businesswoman? That's probably "woke", too.

The idea that Swansong is "woke" is laughable. It's projection. If these people think Swansong is "woke", they're going to have an aneurism when the new version of Bloodlines 2 is revealed. That game will be developed by a British or US team most likely, and unlike the outsider French perspective of Swansong, it will be steeped in US politics.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by MTL5:

So now children lisping is "diversity" and "in your face".

I get that they wanted to include a character that has a minor disability, but they did not have to make her as consistently prominent as she ended up being. Like I said, Halsey's speech very quickly became irritating to listen to, and it's something you have to constantly suffer through during the malkavian's story arc. During the final arc of her story, I was seriously tempted to let Halsey burn to death just so I wouldn't have to listen to her anymore.

Not going to say they should have recast her entirely, but at the very least they could have dialed it back a bit.

Originally posted by MTL5:

The idea that Hazel Iversen is a "girl boss" is ludicrious. She is a violent, paranoid sociopath who tried to murder a (vampire) child.

Yeah, a woman who thinks she's sticking it to the patriarchy by being overly aggressive and refusing to compromise with others... a modern take on the 'girl boss' trend.

Originally posted by MTL5:

Vitiligo affects somewhere between 1/100 or 1/50 people. It is a very, very common medical condition. I'm not sure where some people got the idea that it's rare.

In my 3 1/2 decades of being alive on this planet, I do not believe I have ever encountered a single person in my life who had this condition. In fact, I believe that Michael Jackson was the only person I knew of who suffered from it, which at the time lead my autistic brain to believe it was just some made up condition.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by MTL5:

Are we forgetting Halsey massacring people? Also, Emem is based on a real person. You can tell the developers are French because the person she's based on is a bisexual black civil rights figurehead and French national hero. Which of course is neither "SJW" nor "woke".

I'm talking about physical strength. Halsey using her psychic powers is different.

I'm saying they took the trope of 'strong, black woman' and put a literal spin on it, by giving Emem situational uses of Potence.

Rather 'on the nose' if I do say so myself.

[Valen]

Originally posted by Hao Zhao:

Originally posted by ebecraft:

There is never any real discussion with those consumed by their ego and hatred toward anything that opposes your religion as you are. You can't tell the general difference I am referring to, but cherry pick episodes that satiate your ideological ego.

Star Trek is the show that is famous for doing an inter-racial kiss during a time when conservatives were lynching blacks for fun. It was never friendly to conservatives.

Just curious, how many blacks were lynched exactly?

[East]

Originally posted by Valen:

Originally posted by Hao Zhao:

Star Trek is the show that is famous for doing an inter-racial kiss during a time when conservatives were lynching blacks for fun. It was never friendly to conservatives.

Just curious, how many blacks were lynched exactly?

Last time I counted they got 81.

[Caz]

Originally posted by Hao Zhao:

Originally posted by ebecraft:

I think the problem have is when the characters are defined by their diversity. Think about Star Trek. The original series, Next Generation, and Deep Space Nine had diverse casts, and they were good. No body cared about the diversity. Now contrast that to modern Stat Trek shows where the characters are defined by their ethnicity, and they are almost unwatchable. You can't just be ethnicity X, that ethnicity has to be the core of the characters personality, and they often remind you of that with every interaction in the show or game.

That being said, I have no idea if that is true or not with this game. I hate playing multiple protagonists thought in general.

It's amazing how powerful the correlation is between people who whine about diversity and people who know exactly nothing about everything.

There was an entire Star Trek episode explicitly about racism and that aired in 1969: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Let_That_Be_Your_Last_Battlefield_(episode)

This entire episode is ENTIRELY about two characters defined by ethnicity and why racism is wrong.

ONE WHOLE EPISODE?! WOOOOOW!! That must mean "dIvErSiTy" was the central focus of every character back then like it is today! Or... you just proved you're the one who has no clue what you're talking about. ONE episode addressing a topic isn't the same as the activism shoved into today's media. You shouldn't need this explained to you, you should be smart enough to understand this on this your own. The only people that need this explained to them are the very activists ruining entertainment.

[Caz]

Originally posted by Hao Zhao:

Originally posted by MoreEvilSquid:

That Star Trek episode "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" has a comment/reaction from author Harlan Ellison which not only sums up this episode well, but also could be applied to almost every try-hard woke piece of crap coming out these days:

Harlan Ellison thought this episode a terrible one with a weak message: "Roddenberry may have been a big-deal progressive, but I never heard of him giving a dime to the civil rights movement. Now I don't know what his personal attitude was, 'cause he was always talking about the perfectibility of mankind – which is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ – and talking about equality, but it was a very awkward kind of liberalism, as evidenced by that stupid episode where people are painted half white and half black – the kind of heavy-handed, wannabe liberal thing that embarrasses anyone who has true feelings about racism". (Vibe, Feb 1997)

Who cares what some random right wing crybaby author thinks?

Of course you don't care what your superiors think.

[MTL5]

Originally posted by Caz:

Originally posted by Hao Zhao:

It's amazing how powerful the correlation is between people who whine about diversity and people who know exactly nothing about everything.

There was an entire Star Trek episode explicitly about racism and that aired in 1969: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Let_That_Be_Your_Last_Battlefield_(episode)

This entire episode is ENTIRELY about two characters defined by ethnicity and why racism is wrong.

ONE WHOLE EPISODE?! WOOOOOW!! That must mean "dIvErSiTy" was the central focus of every character back then like it is today! Or... you just proved you're the one who has no clue what you're talking about. ONE episode addressing a topic isn't the same as the activism shoved into today's media. You shouldn't need this explained to you, you should be smart enough to understand this on this your own. The only people that need this explained to them are the very activists ruining entertainment.

William Shatner is a good actor, including his Star Trek work, but easily the most magnificent performance he ever gave in his career was in the Roger Corman film "The Intruder" where he is a racist demagogue who arrives in a town which has just integrated its high school. He seeks to sow discord and chaos and turn the people of the town against each other, and against the black community.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KUuTJW269M
There is nothing subtle about this film. This was written by one of the main Twilight Zone writers, and it obviously has a similar vibe, but not everything needs to be couched in metaphor. It's a film about how racism is evil, and how racism poisons people's minds and souls, and how important it is to be on guard against it, and its agents.

Back when the film came out, it wasn't successful, probably because of its overt political themes. But it has aged fantastically because it pulls no punches.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Caz:

ONE WHOLE EPISODE?! WOOOOOW!! That must mean "dIvErSiTy" was the central focus of every character back then like it is today! Or... you just proved you're the one who has no clue what you're talking about.

Not sure if you're familiar with Hao Zhao, but they're kind of a die hard defender of the current state of WoD. They've been called out multiple times by multiple users about how they have no clue what they're talking about, but they keep doubling down and refusing to listen to reason.

You're probably better off just adding them to your block list, so as to not deal with the headache.

[Hao Zhao]

Originally posted by Caz:

Originally posted by Hao Zhao:

It's amazing how powerful the correlation is between people who whine about diversity and people who know exactly nothing about everything.

There was an entire Star Trek episode explicitly about racism and that aired in 1969: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Let_That_Be_Your_Last_Battlefield_(episode)

This entire episode is ENTIRELY about two characters defined by ethnicity and why racism is wrong.

ONE WHOLE EPISODE?! WOOOOOW!! That must mean "dIvErSiTy" was the central focus of every character back then like it is today! Or... you just proved you're the one who has no clue what you're talking about. ONE episode addressing a topic isn't the same as the activism shoved into today's media. You shouldn't need this explained to you, you should be smart enough to understand this on this your own. The only people that need this explained to them are the very activists ruining entertainment.

Pretty much the entire franchise was making fun of Conservative losers, dude. You're losing your mind and having a meltdown because you can't actually offer any counter-evidence.

https://musingsofamiddleagedgeek.blog/2020/03/14/star-trek-has-been-and-always-shall-be-about-diversity-and-social-justice/

You're just objectively wrong. lmao

[Hao Zhao]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Caz:

ONE WHOLE EPISODE?! WOOOOOW!! That must mean "dIvErSiTy" was the central focus of every character back then like it is today! Or... you just proved you're the one who has no clue what you're talking about.

Not sure if you're familiar with Hao Zhao, but they're kind of a die hard defender of the current state of WoD. They've been called out multiple times by multiple users about how they have no clue what they're talking about, but they keep doubling down and refusing to listen to reason.

You're probably better off just adding them to your block list, so as to not deal with the headache.

No, that never happened. What happened was that you got buried in ample evidence proving that you don't even know the basic tabletop rules. When asked to provide any evidence for your claims, you disappear every single time. What's the matter? Why do you hide behind imaginary friends (LOL) and why are you so intimidated by me and that you are incapable of going back to your hair topic and backing up any of your claims with any evidence at all?

You lose again, Elliot Rodger.

[Something completely different]

Originally posted by Caz:

Originally posted by Hao Zhao:

Who cares what some random right wing crybaby author thinks?

Of course you don't care what your superiors think.

That post most certainly made me not care about what you think.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Hao Zhao:

Pretty much the entire franchise was making fun of Conservative losers, dude.

Is that why the Prime Directive forbids Star Fleet from actively interfering in the affairs of other planets' way of life? Even if that way of life is inherently detrimental and barbaric to society?

Sounds to me like Star Fleet is pretty big on remaining conservative.

[Hao Zhao]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Hao Zhao:

Pretty much the entire franchise was making fun of Conservative losers, dude.

Is that why the Prime Directive forbids Star Fleet from actively interfering in the affairs of other planets' way of life? Even if that way of life is inherently detrimental and barbaric to society?

Sounds to me like Star Fleet is pretty big on remaining conservative.

No, it's the exact opposite. Gene Roddenberry was critical of conservative imperialism and based the Prime Directive off of historical opposition to the British Empire which sailed all over the world claiming it was correcting "backwards" cultures.