Asmongold says "This game Sucks"

[»Zinger(||)Burger_]

https://www.twitch.tv/zackrawrr

[Bankai9212]

Publicado originalmente por リアンダ:

Publicado originalmente por Culain:

I think you massively exaggerate the influence his opinion has. Any game mentioned by him, positively OR negatively, gets a boost, simply because he has reach.

Can you name an example where he hated on a game and after that it became a smash hit? because I certainly remember plenty of games that exploded in poularity after he mentioned them favorably on his channel.

Publicado originalmente por Culain:

It's not his opinion that is the deciding factor. It's the same for most influencers.

This is such a naive statement. It's like saying. "Advertisments don't influence consumer behaviour." Why do you think streamers have referral codes if their oppinions don't translate into sales? Are companies just stupid to throw money at them or what?

Publicado originalmente por Culain:

And as for his reaction to Gothic... well, he's not really the type of gamer for this sort of game, anyway.

Agreed. But his statements certainly didn't help convining people on the fence about buying this game to give it a try now did they?.

Considering gothic or pb games in general was always niche, I doubt most were all that interested to begin with. If anything most would trust the word of Seeth or mandalore gaming regarding the remake then asmon.

[Valyoyo]

And ?

[リアンダ]

Publicado originalmente por Bankai9212:

Considering gothic or pb games in general was always niche, I doubt most were all that interested to begin with. If anything most would trust the word of Seeth or mandalore gaming regarding the remake then asmon.

I'm a bit worried that they will neither please the core audience nore the new one. The game only losely resembles the original in terms of visuals and gameplay feel. But at the same time it keeps jankyness and inacessibility of the original that makes it hard for a wider audience to enjoy the game. I hope I'm wrong with this because I would love for Gothic to continue as a franchise, even if I have my doubts about the quality of the game.

[60Faps-P.S.]

Really we are going to cater to a redneck with the ♥♥♥♥ you if you don't agree with me attitude. He has no ideea of the original games and thinks if is not a souls rpg then is bad(which is kinda ironic since the 2 first Gothic games plays like a souls game). Stop giving power of decision to some lazy and stupid persons on the internet...geez.

[Bankai9212]

Publicado originalmente por リアンダ:

Publicado originalmente por Bankai9212:

Considering gothic or pb games in general was always niche, I doubt most were all that interested to begin with. If anything most would trust the word of Seeth or mandalore gaming regarding the remake then asmon.

I'm a bit worried that they will neither please the core audience nore the new one. The game only losely resembles the original in terms of visuals and gameplay feel. But at the same time it keeps jankyness and inacessibility of the original that makes it hard for a wider audience to enjoy the game. I hope I'm wrong with this because I would love for Gothic to continue as a franchise, even if I have my doubts about the quality of the game.

With any remake you'll never please the old fans, even if its a perfect 1:1 they'll find something imo despite its age and controls gothic still has a great aesthetic. With the remake you miss out on that with all the visual additions. As for new fans, honestly with so many games now really hard to stick out in the crowd anymore. The series only worked in the era it was in compared to now.

[リアンダ]

Publicado originalmente por Bankai9212:

With any remake you'll never please the old fans, even if its a perfect 1:1 they'll find something imo despite its age and controls gothic still has a great aesthetic.

The general baseline when approaching a remake should be that every change has to be 100% justified. The risk that fans take offense because the things they love remain unchanged is very small. The opposite however is much more likely. And that's not surprising. Games only tend to get remakes if they have managed to stay relevant for decades which means that their core design was built to stand the test of time. It's a kind of self selection process where almost every game deserving of a remake sets the quality bar incredibly high for any team tackling that project.

The Gothic remake takes a ton of unnecessary risks imo. We can all agree that the graphics needed to be updated, right? But noone ever requested to change the climate from northwestern germany to some mediterranean country. No longtime fan ever asked for the visual -and sound design of scavengers to change into something completeley unrecognizeable. Or that Lee should look like a scrawny 29 year old dude. That the mountain fortress should have a completeley different architecture, etc.

Another request that I saw frequently over the years was updating the combat system. And fair enough, that is indeed one of the worst aspects of the original Gothic. But nobody ever asked the devs to add a slow, physics based feel with tons and tons of inertia sprinkled on top of everything.

I've played and enjoyed so many remakes over the years. There's Diablo resurrected that looks and sounds exactly like the original but with much more detail and tons of balance tweaks as well as modern day comfort functions. There's Dead Space 2023, which makes flying less tedious, adds bits and pieces of extra lore to make the game feel more cohesive with its sequels and rebalances some of the weapons to be more viable. And let's not forget Crash Bandicoot N'Sane Triolgy which is so faithful and so well polished that it has outright replaced the original game for speedrunners, all while looking drop dead gorgeous.

Did any of these games not sell well or get any significant criticism because they were "too similar" to the original?

[Bankai9212]

visual changes are expected, but the old visuals added to the games charm at the time and even now like I said aesthetics. While the colony is a cool setting unless people play far enough just looks like any other fantasy title.

Gothic combat is pretty hard to really improve yet retain what made it work in the original. Along with all the magic and stuff.

well dead space remake more or less just added what was in dead space 2 in terms of gameplay. But alot of the narrative stuff did change and bosses. Well crash is a platformer, outside of irony some stuff out not much to change gameplay wise so they only needed to have better visuals that match the aesthetic of the original.

But, dead space remake has stutter issues that will never be fixed since its engine related, as for crash the biggest issue was the hitbox for crash that make jumps way harder. While they apparent sold well. EA isn't going to remake 2 or do a dead space sequel and the devs for the crash trilogy is making cod games now.

[リアンダ]

Publicado originalmente por Bankai9212:

visual changes are expected, but the old visuals added to the games charm at the time and even now like I said aesthetics. While the colony is a cool setting unless people play far enough just looks like any other fantasy title.

Gothic combat is pretty hard to really improve yet retain what made it work in the original. Along with all the magic and stuff.

well dead space remake more or less just added what was in dead space 2 in terms of gameplay. But alot of the narrative stuff did change and bosses. Well crash is a platformer, outside of irony some stuff out not much to change gameplay wise so they only needed to have better visuals that match the aesthetic of the original.

But, dead space remake has stutter issues that will never be fixed since its engine related, as for crash the biggest issue was the hitbox for crash that make jumps way harder. While they apparent sold well. EA isn't going to remake 2 or do a dead space sequel and the devs for the crash trilogy is making cod games now.

I'm not claiming these remakes didn't have their issues. But did you notice how none of the shortcomings you mentioned were related to "staying too close to the original"? If anything, your criticism was related to changing things too much such as Crashes new hitbox. So when the Gothic remake producer Reiner Pollice ponders whether or not they should change this or re-invent that the answer is ususally simple. You're working on a remake, not a sequel. So if the question is"should we change the standard weather pattern from overcast, gloomy autum day to sunbaked, midsummer heatwave" the answer is no. "Ruhrpottcharme" is literally an expression coined by the original Gothic team to describe how the game nails the feel and aesthetic of a specific region in Germany. It's one of the elements that make the game what it is but Alkimia is either unwilling or unable to translate that look and feel into modern graphics.

[Culain]

Publicado originalmente por リアンダ:

Publicado originalmente por Culain:

I think you massively exaggerate the influence his opinion has. Any game mentioned by him, positively OR negatively, gets a boost, simply because he has reach.

Can you name an example where he hated on a game and after that it became a smash hit? because I certainly remember plenty of games that exploded in poularity after he mentioned them favorably on his channel.

Publicado originalmente por Culain:

It's not his opinion that is the deciding factor. It's the same for most influencers.

This is such a naive statement. It's like saying. "Advertisments don't influence consumer behaviour." Why do you think streamers have referral codes if their oppinions don't translate into sales? Are companies just stupid to throw money at them or what?

Publicado originalmente por Culain:

And as for his reaction to Gothic... well, he's not really the type of gamer for this sort of game, anyway.

Agreed. But his statements certainly didn't help convining people on the fence about buying this game to give it a try now did they?.

I'm not aware of any game Asmongold hated on specifically that got popular because he mentioned it (I don't watch his content, and aside from threads like this one also don't really see much about him either), but Among Us blew up when one influencer played and hated it, and suddenly everyone was streaming it.

And that's what I mean. I never said advertisements have no effect. But what matters is less what they say and more that they do it. Ads are supposed to make you hear about a thing, ideally again and again. What they specifically say is less important.

As for Asmongold's effect on the sales of Gothic... We don't really have those stats yet, do we?

[MateSalsa]

I like Asmon but he is kind of the apotheosis of the casual gamer even if he is not aware of it.
And reaching a wider audiance will be a problem for this remake as it is inherently niche.

The current trend is not even souls-like anymore but souls-hacknslash hybrid or souls-sekiro hybrid games. Also the community enjoys the boss rush approach so a lot of hard bosses but easy undersandable level design.

Piranha bytes games are totally different and Gothic 1 remake will struggle to find it's audiance probably.

[Necromanu Shi Atat]

Publicado originalmente por MateSalsa:

I like Asmon but he is kind of the apotheosis of the casual gamer even if he is not aware of it.
And reaching a wider audiance will be a problem for this remake as it is inherently niche.

The current trend is not even souls-like anymore but souls-hacknslash hybrid or souls-sekiro hybrid games. Also the community enjoys the boss rush approach so a lot of hard bosses but easy undersandable level design.

Piranha bytes games are totally different and Gothic 1 remake will struggle to find it's audiance probably.

Bro is a niche game with so many players then you think ,, its not a casual game and never was intended for be to casuals

there are Gothic fans worldwide before internet acces to every gamer , some of us still have the cd of games

So don't worry about sales ,, there is no any other game and will never be with immersion of gothic dialogues and world ,, most of open worlds are liveless worlds ,, there are only few games in 20 years

How many games ,, people played for 20 years ??
or talk about?

Few ,, how many games are launches 20.000 only last year , most of them are forgot next year

So don't worry Gothic sales will be huge

[リアンダ]

Publicado originalmente por Culain:

And that's what I mean. I never said advertisements have no effect. But what matters is less what they say and more that they do it. Ads are supposed to make you hear about a thing, ideally again and again. What they specifically say is less important.

The Gothic remake has been in developement for 5 years now. Given the overall increased production cost it will have to outsell the original in order to be the clear financial success the embracer group needs to greenlight a sequel. Asmon hating the game is at best a wasted opportunity and at worst turning off for a ton of potential new customers. Word of mouth is incredibly strong among gamers because they tend to be highly selective about their purchase decisions.

Publicado originalmente por Culain:

As for Asmongold's effect on the sales of Gothic... We don't really have those stats yet, do we?

What we do know is that the game currently sits at about 70k followers on steam which is comparable with Dragon Age the Veilguard. Now granted, the Gothic Remake is most likely a lot cheaper to produce than Dragon Age but if you want to see a continued production of Gothic remakes then this needs to be a clear success.

I'm not even worried about the sales of this specific remake because longtime fans have put their rose tinted glasses on pretty much since the day the remake was announced. Even I who thinks this game is at best average right now will buy it simply because I have played the original for decades. But if Alkimia fails to deliver with this game then customer goodwill won't be able to save potential sequels.

My prediction is that the game will initially be hyped by a ton by aging millenials gaslighting themselves who need this game to be a success. Simply because it makes them feel like back in the day when the grass was greener and they had more hair on their heads.

But if the quality of the demo is representative of the final game we are looking at a very, very average game. And nostalgia can only hide that for a short amount of time. So in the interest of the series I would pay close attention to people who play this game without the kind of nostalgia clouding the judgement of longtime fans.

[Bankai9212]

Publicado originalmente por Necromanu Shi Atat:

Publicado originalmente por MateSalsa:

I like Asmon but he is kind of the apotheosis of the casual gamer even if he is not aware of it.
And reaching a wider audiance will be a problem for this remake as it is inherently niche.

The current trend is not even souls-like anymore but souls-hacknslash hybrid or souls-sekiro hybrid games. Also the community enjoys the boss rush approach so a lot of hard bosses but easy undersandable level design.

Piranha bytes games are totally different and Gothic 1 remake will struggle to find it's audiance probably.

Bro is a niche game with so many players then you think ,, its not a casual game and never was intended for be to casuals

there are Gothic fans worldwide before internet acces to every gamer , some of us still have the cd of games

So don't worry about sales ,, there is no any other game and will never be with immersion of gothic dialogues and world ,, most of open worlds are liveless worlds ,, there are only few games in 20 years

How many games ,, people played for 20 years ??
or talk about?

Few ,, how many games are launches 20.000 only last year , most of them are forgot next year

So don't worry Gothic sales will be huge

Yet PB no longer exists despite using the same formula that made them famous to begin with. Gothic was big for a time at least 2, since then they barely managed to stay relevant from risen to elex. This remake isn’t going to sell as well as you think given the amount of dev time associated to it.

[Bankai9212]

Publicado originalmente por リアンダ:

Publicado originalmente por Bankai9212:

visual changes are expected, but the old visuals added to the games charm at the time and even now like I said aesthetics. While the colony is a cool setting unless people play far enough just looks like any other fantasy title.

Gothic combat is pretty hard to really improve yet retain what made it work in the original. Along with all the magic and stuff.

well dead space remake more or less just added what was in dead space 2 in terms of gameplay. But alot of the narrative stuff did change and bosses. Well crash is a platformer, outside of irony some stuff out not much to change gameplay wise so they only needed to have better visuals that match the aesthetic of the original.

But, dead space remake has stutter issues that will never be fixed since its engine related, as for crash the biggest issue was the hitbox for crash that make jumps way harder. While they apparent sold well. EA isn't going to remake 2 or do a dead space sequel and the devs for the crash trilogy is making cod games now.

I'm not claiming these remakes didn't have their issues. But did you notice how none of the shortcomings you mentioned were related to "staying too close to the original"? If anything, your criticism was related to changing things too much such as Crashes new hitbox. So when the Gothic remake producer Reiner Pollice ponders whether or not they should change this or re-invent that the answer is ususally simple. You're working on a remake, not a sequel. So if the question is"should we change the standard weather pattern from overcast, gloomy autum day to sunbaked, midsummer heatwave" the answer is no. "Ruhrpottcharme" is literally an expression coined by the original Gothic team to describe how the game nails the feel and aesthetic of a specific region in Germany. It's one of the elements that make the game what it is but Alkimia is either unwilling or unable to translate that look and feel into modern graphics.

With the examples those games had good gameplay to begin with, so outside of some tweaks not much needed to be done. Gothic or at least pb is always about jank for some it’s part of the charm. Pretty hard to smooth that out without old fans getting annoyed.

[Culain]

Publicado originalmente por リアンダ:

Publicado originalmente por Culain:

And that's what I mean. I never said advertisements have no effect. But what matters is less what they say and more that they do it. Ads are supposed to make you hear about a thing, ideally again and again. What they specifically say is less important.

The Gothic remake has been in developement for 5 years now. Given the overall increased production cost it will have to outsell the original in order to be the clear financial success the embracer group needs to greenlight a sequel. Asmon hating the game is at best a wasted opportunity and at worst turning off for a ton of potential new customers. Word of mouth is incredibly strong among gamers because they tend to be highly selective about their purchase decisions.

Publicado originalmente por Culain:

As for Asmongold's effect on the sales of Gothic... We don't really have those stats yet, do we?

What we do know is that the game currently sits at about 70k followers on steam which is comparable with Dragon Age the Veilguard. Now granted, the Gothic Remake is most likely a lot cheaper to produce than Dragon Age but if you want to see a continued production of Gothic remakes then this needs to be a clear success.

I'm not even worried about the sales of this specific remake because longtime fans have put their rose tinted glasses on pretty much since the day the remake was announced. Even I who thinks this game is at best average right now will buy it simply because I have played the original for decades. But if Alkimia fails to deliver with this game then customer goodwill won't be able to save potential sequels.

My prediction is that the game will initially be hyped by a ton by aging millenials gaslighting themselves who need this game to be a success. Simply because it makes them feel like back in the day when the grass was greener and they had more hair on their heads.

But if the quality of the demo is representative of the final game we are looking at a very, very average game. And nostalgia can only hide that for a short amount of time. So in the interest of the series I would pay close attention to people who play this game without the kind of nostalgia clouding the judgement of longtime fans.

I don't entirely disagree, the demo has room for improvement, I said as much in the survey.

I don't really care what Asmongold says, either, what drew me to comment on this thread more was really your assertion that his criticism (such as it was) is something that should be listened to, or that he represents the average gamer, which I don't think is true. Not everyone who follows him has the same views and preferences when it comes to games. I've checked his comments and his subreddit, and plenty of his followers disagree with him, thinking a game is better or worse than he says.

You yourself admitted this is not really his kind of game, so I'm not sure why you think they should change it to suit him, or dumb it down. I think the game can and should do more to be accessible, but they still need to keep an eye on the intended audience, and even outside of Gothic fans, I don't think that's players like Asmongold.

Still, much as I enjoy this discussion with you (especially since you stayed civil and objective), I feel we've discovered where we disagree and I don't think we're going to convince each other on those fronts, and on the rest I do agree with you. Not sure we can say much more on this.