This is a Reboot not a Remake

[リアンダ]

I just watched another interview with a journalist from the German Gamestar magazine discussing the remake. There they presented a ton of new video footage, talked about hiring new voice actors, adding additional content, etc.

After what I've seen and heard I have now come to the conclusion that this is Game is a reboot and not a remake. The same artistic liberty that was taken when re-imagining creatures seems to permeate the entire game. Just look at locations like the troll canyon if you don't know what I mean. https://www.gamestar.de/videos/grafikvergleich-das-gothic-remake-verleiht-legendaeren-orte-des-minentals-neuen-glanz,133763.html

Anyway, Alkimia obviously can't help themselves making this game their own rather than focussing on a faithful graphical update à la Diablo Resurrected. They couldn't when working on the playable teaser and they still can't now.

This isn't necessarily bad or anything but I would recommend old school fans to brace for impact. There's a good chance that, beyond surface level similartities, you'll be playing an entirely new game. Make of that what you will.

[kestar]

Origineel geplaatst door リアンダ:

Origineel geplaatst door kestar:

How is what Alkimia did against the identity of the original game? Why can’t that be the ruins of some Sleeper worshipping site for example? It would be a lot more interesting that just flat ground with nothing in it except some mobs.

If I take the swamp camp and turn it into a gothic monestary it might fit into the game but the swamp camp will lose its identity and there already is a monestary in the game. It's the same with the troll canyon.

It’s not the same. The later parts o the game were rushed and undercooked. Swamp camp is a much more fleshed out area than the troll canyon. Therefore changing the swamp camp area too much would hurt the game a lot more than changing the troll canyon which is not that detailed to begin with.

Also, nobody was suggesting to change the swamp camp into a monastery. Who’s strawmanning now?

[リアンダ]

Origineel geplaatst door kestar:

Origineel geplaatst door リアンダ:

If I take the swamp camp and turn it into a gothic monestary it might fit into the game but the swamp camp will lose its identity and there already is a monestary in the game. It's the same with the troll canyon.

It’s not the same. The later parts o the game were rushed and undercooked. Swamp camp is a much more fleshed out area than the troll canyon. Therefore changing the swamp camp area too much would hurt the game a lot more than changing the troll canyon which is not that detailed to begin with.

Also, nobody was suggesting to change the swamp camp into a monastery. Who’s strawmanning now?

You do know what hypotheticals are, do you? Let's try it again. Personally, I consider the swamp camp to be rushed and boring just like you consider the troll canyon to be rushed and boring. There are many reasons why I think that way. For example, the swamps next to the camp and towards the coast have a very flat layout, lack any diversity of enemies, are a chore to traverse and are generally underitilized throughout the game. Yberion's temple is empty and boring compared to the "inner sanctums" of the other factions. The Gurus aren't a playable faction like the fire or water mages, no brotherhood merchant sells exceptionally powerful wares like Cavalorn or Cronos or Sharky. And let's not forget how confusing it is to navigate your way through the camp. In short, the brotherhood has received a lot less love than any of the other factions.

In your logic this would mean we're now free to change the sect camp beyond recognition in an effort to make it "better". But just because you have no personal attachment to a certain design doesn't mean other people don't. For example I couldn't care less that Gomez and Raven and Lee look somewhat different now but I could see why many people think their designs have been changed to drastically.

[kestar]

Origineel geplaatst door リアンダ:

Origineel geplaatst door kestar:

It’s not the same. The later parts o the game were rushed and undercooked. Swamp camp is a much more fleshed out area than the troll canyon. Therefore changing the swamp camp area too much would hurt the game a lot more than changing the troll canyon which is not that detailed to begin with.

Also, nobody was suggesting to change the swamp camp into a monastery. Who’s strawmanning now?

You do know what hypotheticals are, do you? Let's try it again. Personally, I consider the swamp camp to be rushed and boring just like you consider the troll canyon to be rushed and boring. There are many reasons why I think that way. For example, the swamps next to the camp and towards the coast have a very flat layout, lack any diversity of enemies, are a chore to traverse and are generally underitilized throughout the game. Yberion's temple is empty and boring compared to the "inner sanctums" of the other factions. The Gurus aren't a playable faction like the fire or water mages, no brotherhood merchant sells exceptionally powerful wares like Cavalorn or Cronos or Sharky. And let's not forget how confusing it is to navigate your way through the camp. In short, the brotherhood has received a lot less love than any of the other factions.

In your logic this would mean we're now free to change the sect camp beyond recognition in an effort to make it "better". But just because you have no personal attachment to a certain design doesn't mean other people don't. For example I couldn't care less that Gomez and Raven and Lee look somewhat different now but I could see why many people think their designs have been changed to drastically.

I never said “change beyond recognition”. You can still rearrange and expand the swamp camp to improve it, while still keeping its original atmosphere. If you use for instance a circular layout where the plaza and Yberion’s temple are in the center and slightly elevated, while all roads/paths go out radially from this plaza, it would improve navigation a lot. You can still keep the same vibe and it would not be “beyond recognition”. It’s not black and white, only a Sith deals in absolutes.

[fracs]

Origineel geplaatst door リアンダ:

Origineel geplaatst door kestar:

The Gurus aren't a playable faction like the fire or water mages, no brotherhood merchant sells exceptionally powerful wares like Cavalorn or Cronos or Sharky. A

Brotherhood merchant Baal Kadar sells protection rings/amulets while Water mage Kronos sells rings/amulets that boost stats. The idea behind Templar class was basically playing as a hybrid warrior-mage. You can learn magic circles earlier than in other camps already in chapter 1.

[リアンダ]

Origineel geplaatst door kestar:

I never said “change beyond recognition”. You can still rearrange and expand the swamp camp to improve it, while still keeping its original atmosphere.

My point exactly. That's why the troll canyon misses the mark.

[リアンダ]

Origineel geplaatst door fracs:

Origineel geplaatst door リアンダ:

The Gurus aren't a playable faction like the fire or water mages, no brotherhood merchant sells exceptionally powerful wares like Cavalorn or Cronos or Sharky. A

Brotherhood merchant Baal Kadar sells protection rings/amulets while Water mage Kronos sells rings/amulets that boost stats. The idea behind Templar class was basically playing as a hybrid warrior-mage. You can learn magic circles earlier than in other camps already in chapter 1.

Why would I need protection when 90% of melee combat is killing enemies as quickly as possible with burst damage+stagger. As for the magic circles how do you play that? Is there some faction unique rune like improved attack speed or something?

[fracs]

Origineel geplaatst door リアンダ:

Origineel geplaatst door fracs:

Brotherhood merchant Baal Kadar sells protection rings/amulets while Water mage Kronos sells rings/amulets that boost stats. The idea behind Templar class was basically playing as a hybrid warrior-mage. You can learn magic circles earlier than in other camps already in chapter 1.

Why would I need protection when 90% of melee combat is killing enemies as quickly as possible with burst damage+stagger. As for the magic circles how do you play that? Is there some faction unique rune like improved attack speed or something?

Sure thing you wont need those but other people may be interested for variety or other reasons.
There are different builds/strategy that palyer can choose like
-1h melee + bow-xbow
-2h melee
- pure mage
- mage-warrior
There are no faction only runes in Gothic. But if you want to play as a spellsword you can do that. There is no magic that boost your melee capacity may be they will add some in the remake though.

[Sero]

Origineel geplaatst door リアンダ:

Origineel geplaatst door fracs:

Brotherhood merchant Baal Kadar sells protection rings/amulets while Water mage Kronos sells rings/amulets that boost stats. The idea behind Templar class was basically playing as a hybrid warrior-mage. You can learn magic circles earlier than in other camps already in chapter 1.

Why would I need protection when 90% of melee combat is killing enemies as quickly as possible with burst damage+stagger. As for the magic circles how do you play that? Is there some faction unique rune like improved attack speed or something?

What is this? Seems like you are changing the topic entirely when you run out of arguments.

[kestar]

Origineel geplaatst door Sero:

Origineel geplaatst door リアンダ:

Why would I need protection when 90% of melee combat is killing enemies as quickly as possible with burst damage+stagger. As for the magic circles how do you play that? Is there some faction unique rune like improved attack speed or something?

What is this? Seems like you are changing the topic entirely when you run out of arguments.

He is just here to moan and complain about everything and anything.

[リアンダ]

Origineel geplaatst door kestar:

Origineel geplaatst door Sero:

What is this? Seems like you are changing the topic entirely when you run out of arguments.

He is just here to moan and complain about everything and anything.

The moment you manage to form a consistent argument that doesn't contradict itself is the moment I'll stop picking your posts apart.

[リアンダ]

Origineel geplaatst door Sero:

Origineel geplaatst door リアンダ:

Why would I need protection when 90% of melee combat is killing enemies as quickly as possible with burst damage+stagger. As for the magic circles how do you play that? Is there some faction unique rune like improved attack speed or something?

What is this? Seems like you are changing the topic entirely when you run out of arguments.

We didn't change the topic though. Kestar said the troll canyon can be changed beyond regognition because he thinks it's boring and rushed. And I responded with "well than the sect camp can be completely changed beyond recognition as well because I also consider it boring and rushed. The fact that some dude might play a templar mage hybrid with zero benefits or unique gameply mechanics doesn't affect that argument whatsoever.

Imo it's very simple. If you do a remake stay as close to the original as possible because that's what fans are here for. If you want to get funky call it a reboot so that longtime fans know what they're getting themselves into. Don't try and pretend you're now closely following the original game when you're basically doing a playable teaser 2.0 with new combat, dialogues, level geometry and visual designs.

[Dramatic_Effect]

Origineel geplaatst door リアンダ:

Origineel geplaatst door Sero:

What is this? Seems like you are changing the topic entirely when you run out of arguments.

We didn't change the topic though. Kestar said the troll canyon can be changed beyond regognition because he thinks it's boring and rushed. And I responded with "well than the sect camp can be completely changed beyond recognition as well because I also consider it boring and rushed. The fact that some dude might play q templar mage hybrid with zero benefits compared to a pure templar/ mage doesn't affect that argument whatsoever. My argument is very simple. If you do a remake stay as close to the original as possible because that's what fans are here for. If you want to get funky call it a reboot so that longtime fans know what they're getting themselves into.

The swamp camp does not have the same amount of care put into it as for example the Old Camp, true.
Some additions there would be nice.
Though the troll canyon is really boring. You only ever go there once, and it's a big empty area with a skeleton with a shrinking scroll and a note telling you to use it on the troll, a troll, a few goblins, and a random pathway to the ritual place with the focus and harpies.
There's lots of potential there.
Personally turning the whole thing into ruins is a bit much, but making it look more like a troll canyon is neat, like signs of troll habitation. Crushed skeletons, ripped down trees, a troll nest? The ritual place too is just there, nothing around it

[kestar]

Origineel geplaatst door リアンダ:

Origineel geplaatst door kestar:

He is just here to moan and complain about everything and anything.

The moment you manage to form a consistent argument that doesn't contradict itself is the moment I'll start picking your posts apart.

None of my arguments contradicted themselves.

[リアンダ]

Origineel geplaatst door Dramatic_Effect:

You only ever go there once, and it's a big empty area with a skeleton with a shrinking scroll and a note telling you to use it on the troll, a troll, a few goblins, and a random pathway to the ritual place with the focus and harpies.
There's lots of potential there.
Personally turning the whole thing into ruins is a bit much, but making it look more like a troll canyon is neat, like signs of troll habitation. Crushed skeletons, ripped down trees, a troll nest? The ritual place too is just there, nothing around it

I 100% agree, the OG troll canyon could have used some additional work. All the changes you suggest are fantastic and have one thing in common. They thematically fit the "Troll habitat in a canyon" -fantasy perfectly which unfortunately isn't the case for what the devs have shown us in recent promotional material. Remakes should expand, polish and enrich original setpieces, not change them beyond recognition.

[リアンダ]

Origineel geplaatst door kestar:

Origineel geplaatst door リアンダ:

The moment you manage to form a consistent argument that doesn't contradict itself is the moment I'll start picking your posts apart.

None of my arguments contradicted themselves.

On the one hand you're perfectly fine with changing the entire identity of a location in the game because you feel no personal attachment to it. But when you do care about a location or character design you're in favor of sticking closely to the original all of a sudden. I think that's quite a blatant double standard. The same people compaining about how Lee does no longer have salt'n'pepper hair or how Gorn is too scrawny scold others for wanting locations to capture the look and feel of the original.