Silent Protagonist; why?

[Dr. Rudolf von Richten]

So I played the demo for this game, which I think is quite good (and pretty generous for a demo), but I can't for the life of me understand why this game has a silent protagonist.

It's a roleplaying game, full of characters and character interaction, yet our hero, the one who's story we're following and are supposed to care for the most, has no voice and barely any personality. I just can't empathise with him at all, even when some pretty terrible things are happening to him or those important to him, like the razing of Cobblestone.

In addition, because he never speaks, he also never asserts himself or initiates anything; everything he does, he does either because others either tell him to do them, or because those others have some ideas/plans/goals of their own, and he just tags along.

In short, the protagonist of this story doesn't feel like a protagonist at all, but more like an outsider who just happens to be present in the story of other people. And even when these other people tell him that he's Super Important and all, he still feels like a plot device, a MacGuffin in someone else's adventure, and not as an actual person on his own.

Do other players of this game feel the same? Can anybody enlighten me as to why they did it this way? It's one of the mayor reasons* I'm hesitating on buying the actual game.

*The other is the art style, which is just too cutesy, and occasionally quite at odds with the harshness of certain events (like the one mentioned above) but that's really a subjective preference, while the 'silent protagonist' thing is something that I consider to be objectively a mistake.

[Koby]

Has any DQ ever not had a silent protag? It's pretty much expected at this point... DQ isn't exactly known for doing new things.

As for the artstyle comment... I vastly prefer this artstyle any day of the week over the bland realness of FF15. If anything, I'd consider the artstyle one of the biggest pluses for DQ11.

[Dr. Rudolf von Richten]

I haven't played any earlier DQ games, but even if there is plenty precedent for it, that doesn't stop it from being a mistake, for all the reasons I mentioned in the OP.

I haven't played any FF game except for FF VII (way back in the day), so I can't comment on that. My frame of reference is Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky/of Zero/Azure/of Cold Steel, and I prefer the art styles of any of those games to this. But as I said, this is so subjective, that I don't hold it against the game, unlike the silent protagonist thing, which I do hold against the game.

[Koby]

Originally posted by Dr. Rudolf von Richten:

I haven't played any earlier DQ games, but even if there is plenty precedent for it, that doesn't stop it from being a mistake, for all the reasons I mentioned in the OP.

I'm not fond of the silent protag either... but Enix has been doing it with DQ since the 80s, and DQs whole sthick is that they don't shake up the formula. So the likelihood that they do away with the silent protag for DQ12 is extremely unlikely.

[Dr. Rudolf von Richten]

Fair enough, if it works for them I they've got no reason to change it; least of all 'some dude on the forum thinks it's a bad idea'.

But is there an actual justification they have for it besides 'it's what we've always done'?

Why did they start doing it in the first place? It's not like adding dialogue to a game's protagonist wasn't possible in the '80's or anything like that.

[lPaladinl]

Some people prefer silent protagonists because they can fill in themselves or their own character in their place.

I prefer written characters personally, but it's a subjective opinion as to what is better or not.

Dragon Quest is expected to have a silent protagonist, Dragon Quest is one of the few titles that still plays true to it's legacy as a game that came out on the ancient stone tablets known as a "Nintendo Entertainment System" and "video game cartridges". Unlike for example Final Fantasy which barely resembles it's roots at all anymore.

In other words, Dragon Quest knows it's audience and sticks to it's time proven formula. Final Fantasy was their experimental series.

[Dr. Rudolf von Richten]

Ah yes, I remember those stone tablets, I was the envy of my friends in elementary school when I had one! ;-)

But OK, I get it. It is what it is because people like it for what it is, and it doesn't want to change because repetition is comforting. I can respect that.

[Bikanel desert]

why? just tradition!

[Sol]

I am also on the boat (and have been since Chrono Trigger) that silent protags are a bad thing. I think they feared being unable to create a character people would like - see Squall and Cloud. Would anyone have liked Chrono if he were such a Cry Baby Bunting as they?

So instead of risking making a character the player wouldn't like, or that would have a hard limit on who the lead (thus the story) might appeal to, they genericized it to the ultimate - left it silent, and it won't turn off anyone with bad writing or personality.

That said, many games relied on the player inserting themselves into the main character and that is easier done when the character is silent, has room to feel/express things, but doesn't behave in a way that some audience members would be turned off by.

For example, in the US, if a protag cried and behaved emotionally, they might be viewed as weak or "a sissy" - most American audiences don't feel pity and instead laugh at the misfortune and following emotional behaviors. Having a hero remain silent and using 2-3 others for such emotional behaviors allows the hero to "save face". Anyone who would pity the hero already does - but it doesn't beg for pity from everyone else.

It also allows them to give each of the other characters a little bit more depth (not that they have any real depth anyway).

[Dr. Rudolf von Richten]

I'm not really buying the 'afraid to create a character the audience won't like' angle. I mean, that's their job, right? Also, all the other playable characters they've created are fine; in fact, they are what's keeping me invested in the story, not the empty void that is the protagonist.

Almost all other JRPG's that I can think of, like FF, LoH, Yakuza, Atelier: [something], Tales of [whatever] etc. have protagonists with a voice and personality, so Dragon Quest is the outlier here, not the standard. The 'it's how it has always been, and DQ is all about keeping up the traditions it set up for itself' seems much more plausible.

All that said, I have bought the game, and am enjoying it a lot, despite the protagonist. :-)

[lPaladinl]

Funny thing is The Hero in DQ11 actually is more expressive and technically talkative (through time passage dialogue that just says your character explains things) than most DQ Heroes. He has a bit of his own character but they muzzled him.

[Dr. Rudolf von Richten]

I know what you mean: "[Protagonist] explains to the guards that he's here to see the king." That sort of thing. which makes it even more puzzling that they don't just give him an actual voice and agency.

The protagonists non-agency, i.e. that he initiates nothing, has no ideas, goals or plans of his own, and is just following his friends in their suggestions and directions, is mystifying too; why would I care about him when he shows no signs of caring about himself or anything else?

But again, I am enjoying the game despite all this, mainly on the strength of the other characters and the solid combination of 'lots of funny and silly moments' with 'moments of drama and tragedy', even is the latter are blunted by the non-reaction from the protagonist.

So it's good, I'm having fun with this game! :-)

[blueknite]

He has a voice actor, mostly for when he's a child I believe, and every now and then you DO hear your character talk. But he is meant to be silent. I also think it's a tradition thing. Something about classic rpg's and a silent protagonist. Most bethesda rpg's also have silent protagonists so you can insert yourself, but they have the addition that your character IS talking and you're choosing what they say. You just dont hear your responses. I'm glad youre enjoying the game though! :)

[lPaladinl]

Originally posted by blueknite:

He has a voice actor, mostly for when he's a child I believe, and every now and then you DO hear your character talk. But he is meant to be silent. I also think it's a tradition thing. Something about classic rpg's and a silent protagonist. Most bethesda rpg's also have silent protagonists so you can insert yourself, but they have the addition that your character IS talking and you're choosing what they say. You just dont hear your responses. I'm glad youre enjoying the game though! :)

And then the one game where your protagonist does speak is the one where people wish they'd shut up, mostly because Bugthesda's writing has gotten progressively worse with each game. Mr. War Hero with no military training or experience, but he's gotta find his son that Bugthesda can't make you care about.

[Dr. Rudolf von Richten]

I haven't played a Bethesda game since the 90's DOOM games (when they were still ID software). Those were the days ... ;-)

Anyway, it's tradition, I know, I know, I have accepted the game for what it is and am having fun, so it's all good. :-)

[lPaladinl]

Originally posted by Dr. Rudolf von Richten:

I haven't played a Bethesda game since the 90's DOOM games (when they were still ID software). Those were the days ... ;-)

Anyway, it's tradition, I know, I know, I have accepted the game for what it is and am having fun, so it's all good. :-)

Doom was never a Bethesda game, it was always id and still is id today. Bugthesda just bought id out as a Publisher around the same time the DOOM reboot came out. id used to be their own self-publisher.